Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Nov 17, 2017
88
59
18
The Galatians.
God hadn't turned them over yet, but Paul told them plainly what the result was of going back to the law for justification and away from Christ for justification.
No. They were relying on works of the law to justify them.
Works do not justify men.

God Bless
 
Nov 17, 2017
88
59
18
Hi again
I asked specifically "Do you have a biblical of righteousness imputed and taken away.? "

The Galatians.
God hadn't turned them over yet, but Paul told them plainly what the result was of going back to the law for justification and away from Christ for justification.
So the answer is no....
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
4,257
4,915
113
Do you have a biblical example of that?, of righteousness imputed and taken away.?
I think we have been asking for three years... you will probably see Hebrews 6:4-6

I gave him already an explanation and he has not responded.

But you give it a go.... you will be on a "merry - go - round" .... but it will not be "merry"
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
4,257
4,915
113
Continuing in the believing that you started out with is not 'self' being on the throne.
That's no more true than you starting to believe is 'you' being on the throne.
It actually is.......

I received something freely now I have to perform to retain it = EFFORT
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
9,601
3,432
113
Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost (Acts 7:51).

Why can’t you Once Saved Always Saved believers make it passed step one of the gospel?

1. Believer gets imputation of righteousness (Romans 4:24).

2. Becomes born again into the Spirit, flesh crucified (Galatians 5:24).

Oh my.

You are WRONG AGAIN on 2. You do not become Born Again into the Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is doing the BAPTIZING, and HE immerses us into ONE BODY, the Spirutual Body of Jesus Christ.

I do not think you have yet to explain adequately what is BORN AGAIN in your own words, not my words, nor just quote scriptures.

1 Corinthians 12:12-13 (HCSB)
12 For as the body is one and has many parts, and all the parts of that body, though many, are one body—so also is Christ.
13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body(Even the their on the cross received this Baptism.)
whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
 

Judges1318

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2019
2,103
535
113
Hi again
I asked specifically "Do you have a biblical of righteousness imputed and taken away.? "



So the answer is no....
The Biblical record ends before we know if the Galatians came back to faith in Christ or not.
We only know what Paul told them, that they lose justification in Christ when they go back to the law for justification. He wouldn't have told them that if it is as you say that God does not take back an imputation of righteousness given to a person.
 

Judges1318

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2019
2,103
535
113
It actually is.......

I received something freely now I have to perform to retain it = EFFORT
Then you are saying John and the author of Hebrews are telling us to retain what we first heard by effort--the effort you condemn as a 'works' gospel:

"24As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you." - 1 John 2:24

"let us hold firmly to the faith we profess." - Hebrews 4:14

And even if continuing in believing is an effort, what passage of scripture says 'believing' is somehow you working to save yourself?

If the 'effort' to first believe is not you trying to save yourself by works then neither is the 'effort' to continue in that exact same believing. But if you are sure John's, and Hebrew's admonition to retain the gospel message in faith to remain in the Son and the Father is 'works' surely there is a scripture that says that. Can you show me that passage?
 

Micaiah-imla

Active member
Feb 29, 2020
222
108
43
Do you have a biblical example of that?, of righteousness imputed and taken away.?
Colossians 1:21-23

And you, that were once alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet NOW HATH HE RECONCILED in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreprovable in his sight: IF YE CONTINUE IN THE FAITH grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel...
 

Micaiah-imla

Active member
Feb 29, 2020
222
108
43
You are WRONG AGAIN on 2. You do not become Born Again into the Spirit
John 14:20

At that day you shall know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.

John 15:4

Abide in me, and I in you

Now if you want to split hairs over exact wording, that’s your choice.
 

Micaiah-imla

Active member
Feb 29, 2020
222
108
43
More:

Galatians 3:3

Are ye so foolish? Having begun IN THE SPIRIT, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,435
3,347
113
What if it never manifests in works?
It will to some degree BUT how can one quantify and qualify such works and in fact those works and even deeper the reason for said works.

The problem and potential is to focus on the works of the flesh.
I sinned less today that's good. Fact is it's irrelevant.
I gave a beggar some money today. Fact is it's irrelevant.
I give money to a charity. Fact is it's irrelevant.

If focus on sin management then we lose the focus.
The focus is Jesus and the Holy Spirit who will help us to sin less.
To focus on sinning less to be accepted by God is irrelevant.
That was dealt with on the cross.
Sinning less does not increase Gods love and acceptance of us.
We are saved by faith alone.

The fact is why we do it.

This fact is "Love"
Agape love.
Such love is reciprocated between us and God and those who he has given us.

Peter had to move from Phileo to Agape. Poor boy. It must have been hard for him.

As it is for all of us.

It is progressive.

As our man says to whom you responded to concerning uninterrupted believe will manifest in works today, the issue is if it doesn't manifest today then what?
 

Judges1318

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2019
2,103
535
113
What if it never manifests in works?
That person will be cursed and burned:

"8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned." - Hebrews 6:8

Ultimately, in the end, no change of character, no new creation, means no new life through faith in Christ. In that same passage the author talks about the things that do accompany, or have to do with, salvation:

"9Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are convinced of better things in your case—the things that have to do with salvation. 10God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them." - Hebrews 6:9-10

Love for God expressed in love for others, particularly the church, is what ultimately accompanies genuine salvation. In the end, without it you are showing yourself to not love God and belong to Him.

"20 ...whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. 21 ...Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister." - 1 John 4:20-21

"1 ...everyone who loves the father loves his child as well." - 1 John 5:1
 

Judges1318

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2019
2,103
535
113
The problem and potential is to focus on the works of the flesh.
Technically, 'works of the flesh' are the sinful works of the flesh--adultery, theft, etc.

You are not performing works of the flesh when you do works of righteousness.
 

Judges1318

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2019
2,103
535
113
I mean, I agree that is horrible.
It would be great if everybody believed and avoided such a fate.
But the harsh reality is most will not.
Most will love their unrighteousness more than God and choose to live in that unrighteousness and will be condemned when He returns.