Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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When are you gonna stop confusing Biblically reasonable, unprofitable, obligatory service to God with attempting to earn salvation, which Jesus Himself debunked in Luke 17? I'd say not until you give up the OSAS idea that salvation is a license to keep committing capital crime without fear of capital punishment.
Hold up, do I insult anyone? But, when it comes to criticizing the ridiculousness of OSAS's dangerously asinine hermeneutics, you can't blame me for being a bit provocative...I'm trying to get y'all to think.
I know full well you guys aren't dumb, but that you've fallen for the errors of OSAS by intelligent consideration of wrongly divided truth. Conditional Salvationist's attempts to reason with you all only serves to prove that we care about you all.
I know full well you guys aren't dumb, but that you've fallen for the errors of OSAS by intelligent consideration of wrongly divided truth. Conditional Salvationist's attempts to reason with you all only serves to prove that we care about you all.
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Only a fool will argue that at the moment of salvation, the Holy Spirit shows us everything that's wrong in our lives - but the reasonable man knows that Sanctification is a lifelong process of God revealing to us where we need to get better, right?
So then, what happens to a 50 year Christian when suddenly he comes under Holy Spirit conviction for the first time about some error in his life - as did Abraham concerning circumcision - but instead he goes to the grave telling the Holy Spirit "no" every time the He asks him to let it go?
If you answer "heaven", you'll prove my point that OSAS says works are optional.
If you answer "hell", then you as a OSAS Christian will beat out the White Rastafarian in the contest for "Most Confused Person On Earth".
So then, what happens to a 50 year Christian when suddenly he comes under Holy Spirit conviction for the first time about some error in his life - as did Abraham concerning circumcision - but instead he goes to the grave telling the Holy Spirit "no" every time the He asks him to let it go?
If you answer "heaven", you'll prove my point that OSAS says works are optional.
If you answer "hell", then you as a OSAS Christian will beat out the White Rastafarian in the contest for "Most Confused Person On Earth".
Being saved, followed Him.
What has my wife done today with me as her head? Our relationship was invented as a depiction of Christ and His true Church (which is why Satan has tried to destroy marriage as God invented it.) If she chose to take off and go elsewhere with another guy, well, very possible she won’t make it with me across the finish line.
What has my wife done today with me as her head? Our relationship was invented as a depiction of Christ and His true Church (which is why Satan has tried to destroy marriage as God invented it.) If she chose to take off and go elsewhere with another guy, well, very possible she won’t make it with me across the finish line.
Once again, you will rarely find someone (in this forum or in a different forum) who comes straight out and says that works "earn" salvation, but I did find one. This is from a former member of Christian Chat who was banned.
Those who teach we are saved by faith AND works are saying that works, along with faith are the basis or means by which we either obtain and/or maintain salvation, which places merit on works and is earning salvation (at least in part) whether they realize it and admit it or not. They can't have it both ways. Here are some statements below made by works-salvationists who are no longer here.
You accept a theology based on faith alone. A theology in which the only time those two words are put together are actually teaching the exact opposite. (James 2:24) You see that a man is justified/saved by works and not by faith alone.
It is works of obedience that help to save us and not works of the law or works of merit.
James 2:24-------- works>>>>>>>>>>>>>justified
Rom 6:17,18-------obeyed>>>>>>>>>>>>freed from sins/justified
Both James and Paul are speaking of obedient works.......Abraham obeyed God's will and the Romans obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine > obeyed God's will.
Both James and Paul put obedient works BEFORE justification.
We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..
The counterfeit Gospel is out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ.
There it is! Saved by works.
DJ2 was banned and came back as DJ3 and was just recently banned again. His post says it all.
Those who teach we are saved by faith AND works are saying that works, along with faith are the basis or means by which we either obtain and/or maintain salvation, which places merit on works and is earning salvation (at least in part) whether they realize it and admit it or not. They can't have it both ways. Here are some statements below made by works-salvationists who are no longer here.
You accept a theology based on faith alone. A theology in which the only time those two words are put together are actually teaching the exact opposite. (James 2:24) You see that a man is justified/saved by works and not by faith alone.
It is works of obedience that help to save us and not works of the law or works of merit.
James 2:24-------- works>>>>>>>>>>>>>justified
Rom 6:17,18-------obeyed>>>>>>>>>>>>freed from sins/justified
Both James and Paul are speaking of obedient works.......Abraham obeyed God's will and the Romans obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine > obeyed God's will.
Both James and Paul put obedient works BEFORE justification.
We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..
The counterfeit Gospel is out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ.
There it is! Saved by works.
DJ2 was banned and came back as DJ3 and was just recently banned again. His post says it all.
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Amen! Notice that Paul said to "work out" your salvation and not "work for" your salvation. When we "work out" at the gym, we exercise to develop our body that we already have and not to get a body. Farmers "work" the land, not in order to get the land, but to develop the land they already have.
The Greek verb rendered "work out" means "to continually work to bring something to completion or fruition." We do this by actively pursuing the process of ongoing sanctification, which is the result of being set apart for God's work and involves the process of being conformed to the image of Christ. This conforming to Christ involves the work of the person, but it's still God working in the believer who has already been justified by faith. Philippians 2:13 - for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. Where justification is a legal declaration that is a one time event, ongoing sanctification is a process.
There are 3 tenses to salvation: 1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification) 2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification) 3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification)
The Greek verb rendered "work out" means "to continually work to bring something to completion or fruition." We do this by actively pursuing the process of ongoing sanctification, which is the result of being set apart for God's work and involves the process of being conformed to the image of Christ. This conforming to Christ involves the work of the person, but it's still God working in the believer who has already been justified by faith. Philippians 2:13 - for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. Where justification is a legal declaration that is a one time event, ongoing sanctification is a process.
There are 3 tenses to salvation: 1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification) 2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification) 3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification)
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Ooh, you called me pal. Someone’s angry. Your loaded question holds no water. It’s like asking if God is a sinner for wiping out Sodom and Gomorrah.
I love how you sinless perfectionists always ask if grace is a license to rape and murder, but you never ask if its a license to masturbate. Funny how you always avoid YOUR sin.
I love how you sinless perfectionists always ask if grace is a license to rape and murder, but you never ask if its a license to masturbate. Funny how you always avoid YOUR sin.
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defamation of character can certainly involve libelous accusations about a person's opinions, and misrepresentations of what they are.Why not say -- as some slanderously claim that we say -- "Let us do evil that good may result"?
(Romans 3:8)
these kind of attacks, upon hearing the pure gospel of Christ, have been made from the beginning. ask yourself what Paul was preaching that would cause some to make this accusation?
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