Not By Works

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EleventhHour

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#137,585
John146 said:
So David was absent from the body and present with the Lord? Why the need for Abraham’s bosom in the heart of the earth?
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Let us not conflate .. two different things the experience of God in the OT while on earth and where the Old Testament saints waited.
 
J

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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#137,587
EleventhHour said:
Let us not conflate .. two different things the experience of God in the OT while on earth and where the Old Testament saints waited.
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If their sins were washed away then they would have been present with the Lord upon death. They were not.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#137,588
#137,588
John146 said:
If their sins were washed away then they would have been present with the Lord upon death. They were not.
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I did not state they were .. the OT saints

But you seem to also deny that the OT saints were justified by faith and therefore saved.
 
J

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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dcontroversal said:
You are religiously delusional if you actually believe that drivel!
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So David and the rest of the OT saints were present with the Lord in heaven upon death...Without any blood being shed from the Lord...and I’m delusional...I guess Abraham’s bosom is fictional
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
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Nov 24, 2013
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#137,592
dcontroversal said:
You are religiously delusional if you actually believe that drivel!
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Being new to the present conversation, there may be something I’m not understanding as to why you commented this way decon, but I see nothing wrong with what John said.

Am only addressing where David ended up at his death, not his events of life....did not David end up in Abraham’s bosom? Not heaven which is our destination now because of the blood sacrifice.

My understanding of hell at this OT time is two compartments...with a gulf in between. One for the wicked and the other for the righteous.

Agree?
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#137,593
Oct 14, 2013
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#137,593
John146 said:
So David and the rest of the OT saints were present with the Lord in heaven upon death...Without any blood being shed from the Lord...and I’m delusional...I guess Abraham’s bosom is fictional
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You do not think rationally do you? Open your mouth and INSERT FOOT.

GOD's PROMISES are as GOOD AS GOLD, the MOMENT HE Plans them.

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
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Jan 13, 2016
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#137,594
VCO said:
You do not think rationally do you? Open your mouth and INSERT FOOT.

GOD's PROMISES are as GOOD AS GOLD, the MOMENT HE Plans them.

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.
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Lol, we weren’t in Christ before time began, but the promises.🤦‍♂️
 
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
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Feb 15, 2017
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#137,595
stonesoffire said:
Being new to the present conversation, there may be something I’m not understanding as to why you commented this way decon, but I see nothing wrong with what John said.

Am only addressing where David ended up at his death, not his events of life....did not David end up in Abraham’s bosom? Not heaven which is our destination now because of the blood sacrifice.

My understanding of hell at this OT time is two compartments...with a gulf in between. One for the wicked and the other for the righteous.

Agree?
Click to expand...
Is it not irrelevant where David, Abraham etc went to when they died?

The issue seems to me that some believe that David, Abraham etc were not saved until Jesus shed his blood and rose again.

Was David, Abraham saved before the death and resurrection of Jesus?

I say yes.

Others say no.
 
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
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Feb 15, 2017
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#137,596
John146 said:
So David and the rest of the OT saints were present with the Lord in heaven upon death...Without any blood being shed from the Lord...and I’m delusional...I guess Abraham’s bosom is fictional
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Its irrelevant, they were saved before Jesus died on the cross.
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
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Nov 24, 2013
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#137,598
This would be another thread for discussion and am not trying to cause a rabbit trail here.

My personal opinion would be the righteous received paradise by faith but the bride, the Sons, the presence of Father by faith. Heaven and paradise being two separate places.

Jesus bought us, brought us back to our Father.

agree?
 
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