Not By Works

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Dec 12, 2013
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I used to believe in OSAS.....but have been questioning it myself a lot lately in that area...for some reason it just doesn’t fit right in my spirit.
The amount of truth in context that has to be rejected or denied to believe or peddle a losable salvation that can be forfeited by man or lost absolutely CONTRADICTS a losable salvation.....Eternal is NOT temporary, Everlasting IS not temporary and the GIFTS and calling of God are irrevocable....!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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The doctrine takes bits and pieces from disconnected verses to form their position. Individual statements that have nothing to do with their conclusions. If it were not so, one writer would have expounded upon it as an understanding in one piece.

Others to include Jesus talked about falling away. Believers are warned to take care over and over. The case against the doctrine is strong but the emotional response against those who present it is vicious. Just watch what posts I get after this. I’m talking about the doctrine. They’ll talk about ME.
False alert folks....another one peddling a Jesus and false salvation that is self maintained that will take a person straight to the pit!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I would say that are born again through faith as a result of grace.
When we are born again I would be retisent to say it's because we love God so much.
I would say it's because we understand he loves us so much.

Works then follow as the Holy Spirit works in us. It's not automatic because we will have to grow in his love and move towards an AGAPE love.

That's where the Holy Spirit works in us to manifest his fruit.

The greatest of which is love.

Peter is a great example of this in his restoration.
I would say it has nothing to do with us loving God....love is a process of growth anf MATURITY after one has been SAVED....
It is not that we loved him, but that he loved us and Gave himself for us.

Love is listed as spiritual gift in 1st Corinthians 13....NO ONE can SPIRITUALLY LOVE unless born of the SPIRIT!
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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You’re above words explain to me why you come off as having a callous heart.

If you don’t think praying, reading scripture, meditating, and lest we forget, making a joyful noise to the Lord doesn’t strengthen your relationship with God in a profound manner then I pity you.

For me, it’s not either/or, it’s all of the above that strengthens my relationship with God.
What you mentioned is good preparation for doing the work that the Heavenly Father has prepared for you to accomplish beforehand.

Personally, I believe that the best prayer is an answered prayer and that entails someone doing the heavy lifting and doing whatever it takes to complete the task at hand, often at the expense of blood, sweat, and tears.

What you have mentioned will indeed strengthen your relations with God but as I have stated it is actually good preparation to begin performing the Lord's work.

Maybe I missed something but I didn't find her post to be displayng a callous heart at all.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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So did a member say that to you?

You said one poster did.

I have tried to look for it but cannot see it.

This thread is not about OSAS but about our works do not save us.
That is the truth.

After that it gets messy if we go against that.
There is nothing "messy" with eternal security which the bible absolutely teaches and which is absolutely woven tight with the truth of salvation being by grace through faith!
 
May 31, 2020
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What you mentioned is good preparation for doing the work that the Heavenly Father has prepared for you to accomplish beforehand.

Personally, I believe that the best prayer is an answered prayer and that entails someone doing the heavy lifting and doing whatever it takes to complete the task at hand, often at the expense of blood, sweat, and tears.

What you have mentioned will indeed strengthen your relations with God but as I have stated it is actually good preparation to begin performing the Lord's work.

Maybe I missed something but I didn't find her post to be displayng a callous heart at all.
You’re spot on correct about preparation but regarding RM’s callous heart, it’s looking at the total sum of her posts.
 

Magenta

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May 31, 2020
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By the way, reading the Bible, praying and meditation is very cheap. Costs a man pretty much nothing at all. Obeying the living God costs a man a lot. Is that what threatens you?
This is sickening. It’s a blasphemous slap in the face to God and possibly the most dishonoring statement anyone can make to those who sacrificed their life in defense of God’s Word.
 

tourist

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You’re spot on correct about preparation but regarding RM’s callous heart, it’s looking at the total sum of her posts.
It may appear that way through the written posts but sometimes the true sense of what is written is missed because it is not an actual physical conversation where you can see a person's face or gestures that offer clues on the true intent that is trying to be conveyed.

I am not saying that you have done this but I know that I myself have jumped to the wrong conclusions many times in a quick knee-jerk reaction to a certain post. Regarding knee-jerk reactions, I probably come across as a jerk sometimes and for those times I am truly sorry.

I apologize for a ill-advised post I have written or respond to at least once a week. My bad.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Meeting God..means face to face in my mind...like you meet a friend for coffee..I have not lied.

Some of your teaching.does not fit right in my Spirit....sorry if it offends.

It doesn’t offend me when you accused me of not being born again...not in the slightest.
Maybe read the bible....unless you think it is a cheap waste of time like your buddy....and then tell us why exactly did Jacob call a particular place ...

PENIEL
 
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It may appear that way through the written posts but sometimes the true sense of what is written is missed because it is not an actual physical conversation where you can see a person's face or gestures that offer clues on the true intent that is trying to be conveyed.

I am not saying that you have done this but I know that I myself have jumped to the wrong conclusions many times in a quick knee-jerk reaction to a certain post. Regarding knee-jerk reactions, I probably come across as a jerk sometimes and for those times I am truly sorry.

I apologize for a ill-advised post I have written or respond to at least once a week. My bad.
From what I see you’re a great dude and even better brother in the Lord.
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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How do I know there is such a thing as PREDESTINATION ?

I cannot believe how many typos I miss, in this SENIORITUS part of my live. Please understand that after Proof READING 3 times, I find occasionally several MISTAKES I missed. I had have a hard time spelling, because of the Strokes I had, and miss some. Had spelled Now, KNOW, and just found it, after proof reading it 3 times. "WHAT'S YOUR EXCUSE NOW DUMMY."

I can look back on my life, and there were a number times, the LORD had to SEND a Guardian Angel, to KEEP ME ALIVE, so that I would be able to START A Prison Ministry in the newest supermax PRISON in California. The earliest example I could think of, happened on the FARM when is was just a little kid about 4 years old. After my Dad was hauling a load of brush and trees, he had cut down, over to northwest part of our the farm were there were some other cut trees, that he intended to BURN. After he unloaded, I did not want to ride on the tractor, I wanted to ride on the Flat Bed Trailer, with a low axle, made out of an old truck frame.. Dad said I had to ride up front, to where he could keep an eye on me.
View attachment 217512
So I sat on the front right edge of the trailer. As Dad pulled into the driveway, almost to the windmill, and then Dad hit a rut, and it threw me forward, and landed face down on the groung, and my guardian angel had to hold my face down and until the trailer axle got past my head, as it would have hit me in the back of my head and killed me if I lifted my head as little as 1 inch. I got up crying, "DADDY, you ran over me!"

A number of times I should have been dead, except for the GRACE GOD and the Faithfulness of an Guardian Angel are numerous. I have never even had a broken bone. I had TWO accidents on busy highways, where I walked away from them without a SCRATCH. I have walked down alleys in the AIR FORCE overseas, that they warned us, not to go done without 6 of your buddies, because their were gangs their, that would kill you for the $5 in your pocket, and drunk I and decided to ignore the advise, and by myself, took those short cuts to go back to the Base, and nothing happened. I was a Scuba Diver, and had my hand almost on a STONE FISH, when a buddy got my attention and gave me a DANGER SIGNAL. There was a wader in the water that stepped on STONE FISH, at a public beach. The ambulance made the 2 miles trip to the Hospital as fast as he could, but he was DOA. I had a student diver with me when a Sea Snake attacked him, he grabbed it by the tail, and started to panic, twirling it like a ROPE. I HAD TO GO GRAB IT BEHIND the HEAD and cut it head off. That snake is 10 times as poisonous as a King Cobra. Three Attempts at SUICIDE the last week of 1977, and I REALLY DID NOT WANT TO SEE ANOTHER DAY, and all three failed. There are other times, but that should be enough. I hope you can believe me they were REAL OCCURRENCES, as I can now look back, and THEY ARE VERY REAL INDEED. There is NEVER ON THE FACE OF THIS EARTH, a person that can CONVINCE ME THAT GOD ASSIGNED A GUARDIAN ANGEL TO PROTECT ME, BECAUSE HE HAD PREDESTINED ME TO BECOME A VOLUNTEER CHAPLAIN IN A CALIFORNIA SUPER-MAX PRISON.


Yes, I believe in Guardian Angels, sent to Protect us, even when we do stupid things, and even before we have become BORN AGAIN Christians. He was sent to my DAD in WWII, like one of the stories as his squad was running in a zig, zac trench as a GERMAN TANK was fixing to fire at them. DAD was in the middle of the Squad, and just as he turned the corner, the Tank fired, killing his buddies that were behind him, they were blown to bits. If not for that incident, I would have never been born.

YES, I BELIEVE IN PREDESTINATION.

Psalm 12:7 (NRSV)
7 You, O LORD, will protect us; you will guard us from this generation forever.

Psalm 91:11-12 (HCSB)
11 For He will give His angels orders concerning you, to protect you in all your ways.
12 They will support you with their hands so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.

Luke 4:10-12 (HCSB)
10 For it is written: He will give His angels orders concerning you, to protect you,
11 and they will support you with their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.”
12 And Jesus answered him, “It is said: Do not test the Lord your God.”

Acts 4:27-28 (HCSB)
27 “For, in fact, in this city both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, assembled together against Your holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed,
28 to do whatever Your hand and Your plan had predestined to take place.

Romans 8:28-30 (HCSB)
28 We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God: those who are called according to His purpose.
29 For those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified.

1 Corinthians 2:7-10 (HCSB)
7 On the contrary, we speak God’s hidden wisdom in a mystery, a wisdom God predestined before the ages for our glory.
8 None of the rulers of this age knew ⌊this⌋ wisdom, for if they had known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written: What eye did not see and ear did not hear, and what never entered the human mind— God prepared this for those who love Him.
10 Now God has revealed ⌊these things⌋ to us by the Spirit, for the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.

Ephesians 1:3-9 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavens.
4 For He chose us in Him, before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless in His sight. In love
5 He predestined us to be adopted through Jesus Christ for Himself, according to His favor and will,
6 to the praise of His glorious grace that He favored us with in the Beloved.
7 We have redemption in Him through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace
8 that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding.
9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure that He planned in Him

Ephesians 1:11-14 (HCSB)
11 We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him, you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.
Amen. All "He"'s and "Him"s no "we"s or ""I"s.

However a lot of "I will"s noted here....

Isa 14
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’