Not By Works

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EleventhHour

Guest
Perhaps in the midst of this lovely thread all those arguing and bashing each other over losing salvation, or not losing it should perchance spend some time to consider whether or not they're even truly converted?
Perhaps they are not on the "limited" list?

Others may think they are on the "limited" list but perhaps they are not?

What a quandary?
 

Blue_Of_Lake

Active member
Jun 12, 2020
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Question..is DorothyMae the only one judging on this thread?

i would guess (not know) that - there alot of judgements being thrown around in different peoples posts. a ton of labels seem to get tossed around and applied to people here. this does not feel kind or loving necessarily and/or also -- does not help people rightly divide the Word of Truth - - with the Spirit but so often catorgorizes things (and can/ could be put- downs, degrading to them - although the authors might not always mean it that way) and people instead of seeking truth without degrading or labeling others or their beliefs (if only in appearance, for i know no one's heart and posts can be confusing in this respect :/ ).
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
What’s the limited list?
Limited Atonement:

Jesus died only for the elect. Though Jesus’ sacrifice was sufficient for all, it was not efficacious for all. Jesus only bore the sins of the elect. Support for this position is drawn from such scriptures as Matt. 26:28 where Jesus died for ‘many'; John 10:11, 15 which say that Jesus died for the sheep (not the goats, per Matt. 25:32-33); John 17:9 where Jesus in prayer interceded for the ones given Him, not those of the entire world; Acts 20:28 and Eph. 5:25-27 which state that the Church was purchased by Christ, not all people; and Isaiah 53:12 which is a prophecy of Jesus’ crucifixion where he would bore the sins of many (not all).

http://www.calvinistcorner.com/tulip.htm
 
Feb 29, 2020
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It seems to be in every verse and passage for some.... as if the NT are one big treatise on how salvation can be lost.

And to that end, sadly this miss the riches of the message.
There are two things in the New Testament that one should always be aware of: there is a final destination for all mankind: Either to the holy city, or to the lake of fire. The New Testament is a guide on how to enter the one and avoid the other.

And believing the gospel is not the only requirement to enter the holy city. (See Philippians 1:29).

If you have been convinced that you will not face the lake of fire under any circumstance, then naturally you will only see the passages that are addressed to the faithful follower of the Lord; those who take the scripture as a whole, taking heed to the warning passages. You apply all those scriptures to you.

The scriptures that contradict your doctrine are made of none effect through contrivance. You might as well cross those passages out of your Bible; you have no use for them; they don’t apply to you: you are convinced of this.

Man has had years to build his tradition using the Bible. Those traditions get more and more complex as the years pass. And followers grow and grow. At some point the traditional beliefs of men are elevated above the scriptures.

And the old saying of “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it” comes to pass.

And if one comes along with truth, he seems as a liar to the deceived.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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So many misinterpreted passages of scripture that result in "performance based -- type 2 works salvation" theology. :( Wake up people. From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works.

Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. (y)
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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Translation: you have no treasures to share. You’re simply a tare who’s sole purpose is to sow discord among Christian brethren. Even Jackie sees this, and that says a lot.
You got that right. She is a tare, as is Micaiah-Imla. The adopted redeemed elect sons and daughters know this as they are no longer able to be deceived by the hissing of the Serpent.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,749
8,606
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There are two things in the New Testament that one should always be aware of: there is a final destination for all mankind: Either to the holy city, or to the lake of fire. The New Testament is a guide on how to enter the one and avoid the other.

And believing the gospel is not the only requirement to enter the holy city. (See Philippians 1:29).

If you have been convinced that you will not face the lake of fire under any circumstance, then naturally you will only see the passages that are addressed to the faithful follower of the Lord; those who take the scripture as a whole, taking heed to the warning passages. You apply all those scriptures to you.

The scriptures that contradict your doctrine are made of none effect through contrivance. You might as well cross those passages out of your Bible; you have no use for them; they don’t apply to you: you are convinced of this.

Man has had years to build his tradition using the Bible. Those traditions get more and more complex as the years pass. And followers grow and grow. At some point the traditional beliefs of men are elevated above the scriptures.

And the old saying of “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it” comes to pass.

And if one comes along with truth, he seems as a liar to the deceived.
Okay. It's the lake of fire for you then!
 
May 23, 2020
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Limited Atonement:

Jesus died only for the elect. Though Jesus’ sacrifice was sufficient for all, it was not efficacious for all. Jesus only bore the sins of the elect. Support for this position is drawn from such scriptures as Matt. 26:28 where Jesus died for ‘many'; John 10:11, 15 which say that Jesus died for the sheep (not the goats, per Matt. 25:32-33); John 17:9 where Jesus in prayer interceded for the ones given Him, not those of the entire world; Acts 20:28 and Eph. 5:25-27 which state that the Church was purchased by Christ, not all people; and Isaiah 53:12 which is a prophecy of Jesus’ crucifixion where he would bore the sins of many (not all).

http://www.calvinistcorner.com/tulip.htm
Thanks, never heard it put that way.
 
Feb 29, 2020
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Okay. It's the lake of fire for you then!
You do not know this. You are not God.

I am grateful for the undeserved grace that God has given me through Christ and the least I can do is walk worthy of that grace.

By doing so my trajectory is the holy city.
 
May 23, 2020
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You're making some strange assumptions, probably based on your own experiences. When you write, "If we go through our lives never doing what He wanted beyond salvation, what were we saved from in the first place? Jesus came to save us from sin, not hell" Jesus came to give us a more abundant and rewarding life than we had a sinners. Of course He also saved us from hell; do you believe, contrary to Scripture, that believers are going to hell?

You also said, "The problem is teaching that works that please God are unnecessary, then believers will not be encoraged [sic] to do them. So we are left doing works that please us most of the time unless what pleases God happens to please us as well now and again." This is in direct conflict with Scripture! Believers "do good works" to the extent that they are able because God has given them the Holy Spirit. If Christians do works that please us, not God, most of the time, then they are not living according to their new, God-given nature.

Have you ever read, "“Do not judge so that you will not be judged."? Matthew 7:1 Or do you think it doesn't apply to you?
I know I answered this. But I guess living to please God is foreign to many. What can I do? It’s foreign to them.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,749
8,606
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You do not know this. You are not God.

I am grateful for the undeserved grace that God has given me through Christ and the least I can do is walk worthy of that grace.

By doing so my trajectory is the holy city.
If you DO NOT believe that Christ is now, as of this very moment, making intercession for your daily sins, you are almost certainly damned.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,749
8,606
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You do not know this. You are not God.

I am grateful for the undeserved grace that God has given me through Christ and the least I can do is walk worthy of that grace.

By doing so my trajectory is the holy city.
The least of what you can do is exactly equivalent to the most that you could do.

Which equals precisely nothing.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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I know I answered this. But I guess living to please God is foreign to many. What can I do? It’s foreign to them.
Not really but you assume.

What can you do?

Ask the question and listen to the answer.

It really isn't that difficult.
If memory serves me I responded to a question that you asked to someone else with the same question.

Then you came at me and basically felt you were trying to ridicule me and put me down.

If you want to ask questions then be willing to accept the answer, if the question is reversed then answer rather than make them feel like crappy unbelievers.
 
Jun 5, 2020
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Sounds a lot like this passage:

Philippians 2:12
[12] Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

There’s that word “work”.
How convenient that you left out the following verse... Philippians 2:13, "Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose."

So it's not by human work at all, is it?