Not By Works

[Grace777x70]

I like astronomy...entered a science fair at age 12 and built a solar model...and o doubt on navigating by the stars....I have a few apps I like Sky Map and Sky View.....the latter just downloaded today....free app for smart phones....The first on the list is signs in Genesis as applied unto the sun, moon and stars.....good stuff

I like it too.

I like to meditate on the verse that says - as high as the stars are above earth so are My ways above your ways and My thoughts above man's humanistic thoughts says the Lord.

Some in this thread have a humanistic mindset approach to the gospel of the finished work of Christ which is why having a new heart that was cleansed by the blood of Jesus and created new is a mystery to them.

The new creation in Christ is a mystery to them. The righteousness of God in Christ given as a gift to us that believe is a mystery to them.

Just how far is the farthest star from earth that we know of now? I found this about a galaxy. The galaxy is about 13.3 billion light-years from Earth,

This is how far above God's "ways" and thoughts are compared to man's humanistic ways of thinking.

 

[dcontroversal]

I like it too.

I like to meditate on the verse that says - as high as the stars are above earth so are My ways above your ways and My thoughts above man's humanistic thoughts says the Lord.

Some in this thread have a humanistic mindset approach to the gospel of the finished work of Christ which is why having a new heart that was cleansed by the blood of Jesus and created new is a mystery to them.

The new creation in Christ is a mystery to them. The righteousness of God in Christ given as a gift to us that believe is a mystery to them.

Just how far is the farthest star from earth that we know of now? I found this about a galaxy. The galaxy is about 13.3 billion light-years from Earth,

This is how far above God's "ways" and thoughts are compared to man's humanistic ways of thinking.

View attachment 171253

Imagine that distance....186,000 miles a second for 13.3 billion years to reach it.....makes me think about size being relative....maybe we are the size of a proton under a celestial microscope HAHA

 

[Ariel82]

Imagine that distance....186,000 miles a second for 13.3 billion years to reach it.....makes me think about size being relative....maybe we are the size of a proton under a celestial microscope HAHA

I heard a professor tell me once the light we see now might be from stars that have already died by the time it reaches us.


If makes you think about how our perspective of the universe is so limited and what we think is permanent might be in reality already totally different.

 

[Meggido]

I like it too.

I like to meditate on the verse that says - as high as the stars are above earth so are My ways above your ways and My thoughts above man's humanistic thoughts says the Lord.

Some in this thread have a humanistic mindset approach to the gospel of the finished work of Christ which is why having a new heart that was cleansed by the blood of Jesus and created new is a mystery to them.

The new creation in Christ is a mystery to them. The righteousness of God in Christ given as a gift to us that believe is a mystery to them.

Just how far is the farthest star from earth that we know of now? I found this about a galaxy. The galaxy is about 13.3 billion light-years from Earth,

This is how far above God's "ways" and thoughts are compared to man's humanistic ways of thinking.

View attachment 171253

Here is one that will cause deep thought....There a 7 Billion people on Plant earth now......there are 32 Billion star estimate in the Milk Way alone....they say there are innumerable stars in the universe...

God told Abraham....
Gen 15.5:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And He took him outside and said, “Now look toward the heavens, and count the stars, if you are able to count them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.”

Gen 22.17:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your seed shall possess the gate of their enemies.


God reminded Isaac...
Gen 26.4
[SUP]4 [/SUP]I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven, and will give your descendants all these lands; and by your descendants all the nations of the earth shall be blessed

<dropping the mic>


Think about it....

 

[Meggido]

I guess the thief on the cross, the Corinthian guy having sex with his mother who's Spirit will be saved on the last day according to Paul, EVERY death bed convert are ALL lost because they didn't do works to accompany their faith!

And BTW... Just how many works are necessary to prove you are saved?

FRUIT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT PRODUCES WORKS. WORKS DO NOT PRODUCE FRUIT!

Geesh,the works for or to maintain Salvation, Clan has dispatched a lot of new reinforcements!

Fruit is making disciples....John 15.8

 

[Ariel82]

Thursday night was the night we talked about Jesus and the cross at VBS and Friday we recreated the prison scene.

I asked the kids while we were hiding "if you knew you would go to jail would you admit that you were a disciple of Jesus."

It was heart warning to hear kids yell yes, but I believe a learning moment for me was when kids said "no way"

I have to humble myself and admit I wasn't sure what to say. However God bless me because a little girl said "Didn't Peter deny Jesus three times?"

It reminded me to tell them that it's okay to be honest and pray to God to increase your faith so that one day you too can stand for Jesus like Peter did later in His life. Paul and Silas prayed and sang songs. When the angel freed them they didn't escape but stayed and preached the gospel to the jailor who was going to kill himself.

Maybe the kids will remember to have joy and praise God even in their troubles.

It touched my heart that the kids said one of their favorite songs was the one we prayed on Wednesday "it is well with my soul" God gives us peace even during the storms of our life.

 

[Ariel82]

Lol Meggido did you just "drop the Mic"? Lol

 

[Ariel82]

Galatians 3:16
New International Version
The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.

New Living Translation
God gave the promises to Abraham and his child. And notice that the Scripture doesn't say "to his children," as if it meant many descendants. Rather, it says "to his child"--and that, of course, means Christ.

English Standard Version
Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ.

Berean Study Bible
The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say, "and to seeds," meaning many, but "and to your seed," meaning One, who is Christ.

Berean Literal Bible
Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. It does not say "and to seeds" as of many but "and to your seed" as of One, who is Christ.

New American Standard Bible
Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ.

King James Bible
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

 

[Meggido]

I think this thread should be closed by a moderator. It seems that it is repeating and causing division.

Brother DCON had a good thread in mind, but it's usefulness seems to have gone down the drain.

We are swirling the same old arguments over and over again and beat this topic into the ground. Neither camp is going to convince each other, so I ask a moderator to step and in close it.

I see no usefulness in this thread DCON, do the right thing and let it either die or ask a mod to close it down.

I see brothers/sisters fighting against brothers/sister and can see both sides, but this is getting stupid and foolish now.
I am seeing the smae remarks made to people who disagree that were stated months ago.

Will a spiritual grown up step and make the call and either close this thread or DCON, you need to have it done.

This is not a indictment against the thread started or anyone else...this thread is not accomplishing anything but sowing discord and seems to only be elevating individuals pride and defense of their own view and not elevating fruitful discussion.


This one needs to go and go now. I was guilty of commenting and getting stupid too, but come on bros/sisters let this one go. It is evident the lines are drawn and I would dare say it is not glorifying anything but flesh.

DCON do the right thing and be the spiritual mature grown up you are and lets let this one go.

 

[Stephen63]

My brother had some one time straight from Turkey....smelled just like pee until brewed....I NEVER drank any....said h--- no when he asked if I wanted some....HAHAHA NOT ME.....

Just curious..... you did say you were a former pastor, didn't you?

 

[dcontroversal]

I heard a professor tell me once the light we see now might be from stars that have already died by the time it reaches us.


If makes you think about how our perspective of the universe is so limited and what we think is permanent might be in reality already totally different.

Depends on the distance to the star from Earth. Our Sun's (remember that our sun is a star) light takes a 8.3 minutes to reach us. The next nearest star is Proxima Centauri is 4.24 light years from the sun, so its light will take 4.24 years to reach us at 186,000 miles per second....wow...

 

[dcontroversal]

Here is one that will cause deep thought....There a 7 Billion people on Plant earth now......there are 32 Billion star estimate in the Milk Way alone....they say there are innumerable stars in the universe...

God told Abraham....
Gen 15.5:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And He took him outside and said, “Now look toward the heavens, and count the stars, if you are able to count them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.”

Gen 22.17:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your seed shall possess the gate of their enemies.


God reminded Isaac...
Gen 26.4
[SUP]4 [/SUP]I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven, and will give your descendants all these lands; and by your descendants all the nations of the earth shall be blessed

<dropping the mic>


Think about it....

I referenced this today and how each star is named by God, has it's own color, brilliance, shine and how every day stars are born and die...note the being born part is slowing.......very interesting....

 

[UnderGrace]

Scripture is so clear ...it blows my mind how many different ways the simple truth gets distorted mostly because people cannot handle that God has forgiven all sins and being born again is a singular event never to undone or repeated.

We are saved when we are born again. Jesus made this very clear when He spoke to Nicodemus.

We have one physical birth.

We have one spiritual birth (Born Again from above)

We do not walk in the Spirit to be born again...but rather we are exhorted to walk in the Spirit because we are born again.

We are under obligation to walk in the Spirit because that is where our freedom is, and that is where we have life!
The scripture is about good news, read it that way and you will see Romans 8 12:14 in a new light!!!

What is not perfect is covered by the blood of Christ. What remains is indeed tied to your salvation because it proves that you have the righteousness of Christ that comes solely through faith in the forgiveness of your sins. This is where people stop listening (not you, just speaking in general): It isn't that the love that follows faith plays any part in earning salvation. It's just that the faith that justifies all by itself is the faith that obeys, just as Abraham's faith caused him to walk in his footsteps of obedience.


Absolutely true. The problem is so many Christians think that since this is true faith is under no obligation whatsoever to produce any works of righteousness. That's where the church has missed it.....BIG time. They in effect call James a liar when he says that the faith that is alone (has no works attached) can not save them. And, again, not because works somehow play a part in earning salvation, but because the faith that saves all by itself changes the person who has it into a less than perfect, but still righteous, person who is growing up into works of righteousness. But so many are convinced that the very suggestion of some kind of obligation to do work (walk by the Spirit) is to say that salvation is by works. Hardly true. Even Paul said our obligation is to walk by the Spirit:

Romans 8:12-14 NASB
"12So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh—13for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God."

Is he promoting a works gospel? Of course not. Is he saying the person with the Spirit is under obligation to walk in that Spirit? YES! But so many 'Christians' argue vehemently that we do not have to walk in the Spirit, and that those who don't are sons of God, too, despite the fact that Paul says it is those who are lead of the the Spirit who are the sons of God. And so I must ask the church, "and who is it that is teaching a false gospel?"

 

[Katy-follower]

No doubt....back to bloviating

If I ever meet someone that uses that word, I'll always think of you.

Most overused word in this thread. Haha

 

[Katy-follower]

God did not accept Abel offering because Abel was sad, he accepted it because it was the prescribed and correct offering.

Offered by faith, and through which Abel obtained witness that he was righteous (Hebrews 11:4)

Same examples can be seen in others of faith also.

But there's a definite reference to the future sacrifice of Jesus, the perfect lamb of God. Today we see many that reject the blood of Jesus to save them, and instead they try to get to God on their own terms (broad way).

Old & new apostates are mentioned in Jude 1. Much is said of them, such as "...these dreamers reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries.... these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves..... Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain...."

And these apostates are confirmed as being dead trees, not being children of God.... the (new) apostates "not having the Spirit" (V19)

 

[PeterJens]

I believe it comes down to what exactly is a saving faith?

Scripture is so clear ...it blows my mind how many different ways the simple truth gets distorted mostly because people cannot handle that God has forgiven all sins and being born again is a singular event never to undone or repeated.

New Living Translation
Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law.

Berean Study Bible
Do we, then, nullify the Law by this faith? By no means! Instead, we uphold the Law.

Berean Literal Bible
Do we, then, nullify the Law through faith? Never may it be! Instead, we uphold Law.

New American Standard Bible
Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

King James Bible
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

rom 3:31

Paul uses this one sentence to conclude his argument between grace and works.

Paul establishes the form of life we are lead, but says this is impossible driven by self
or the flesh. It is only possible through Christ, the blood cleansing and purifying us,
with faith, repentance, deep grief and mourning for sin, dying with Christ and being
resurrected to newness of life in the Spirit.

So the structure of the pharisees in obedience was not wrong, but their hearts and
empowerment led them to hypocracy and sin.

We have a movement here that claims the failure of discipline to obey, but empowers
the walk with nothing but acceptance of failure. As night follows day this is not Pauls
position.

What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?
rom 6:1-2

The balance in Christ about condemnation, is to know what Gods love is through the
Holy Spirit in your heart. You have been anointed so that you might know acceptance
and blessing, that though there is a struggle there is also victory and communion.

 

[Katy-follower]

Offered by faith, and through which Abel obtained witness that he was righteous (Hebrews 11:4)

Same examples can be seen in others of faith also.

But there's a definite reference to the future sacrifice of Jesus, the perfect lamb of God. Today we see many that reject the blood of Jesus to save them, and instead they try to get to God on their own terms (broad way).

Old & new apostates are mentioned in Jude 1. Much is said of them, such as "...these dreamers reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries.... these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves..... Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain...."

And these apostates are confirmed as being dead trees, not being children of God.... the (new) apostates "not having the Spirit" (V19)

I see Cain as being the first example of a non believer, who was trying to be made righteous his own way.

Today you see two groups of people.... believers and non believers.... those who have faith in the work of Jesus to save them & then those who try to add their own works to the work of Jesus.

Abel & Cain are like the two contrasting sides mentioned throughout the scriptures...

Narrow & Broad road
Sheep & goats
Wheat & tares

 

[PeterJens]

Just as you used to offer yourselves as

slaves to
impurity and to ever-increasing
wickedness,

so now offer yourselves as

slaves to
righteousness leading to
holiness.

Rom 6:19

 

[Katy-follower]

Joefizz is also very quiet about it, but he is a hard core KJV onlyist.

Is he mormon? The mormons seem to be the main ones that are KJV only.

 

[Katy-follower]

James 2:14 NASB
"14What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?"

It's a rhetorical question--the answer being, 'no'. James says if someone says they have faith but no works, that faith can not save him. The scriptures are very clear indeed, as you point out. So why does the church disagree with James and says the faith of the person who has no works can save him?

But is it not clear that there's a difference between the true faith and a dead/non existent faith?