Not By Works

[VCO]

One who hates his brother does not have eternal life, as blue of lake stated.

AND eternal Life in the Spirit comes only from the Born Again experience. NO, I am not talking about some Charismatic Experience. It is just the Birth of our Human Spirit into Eternal Life. That Human Spirit will start to dominant the will of flesh, never to return to the dominant Will of the FLESH again, if it was REAL.

John 3:36 (ESV)
36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

John 5:24 (ESV)
24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

 

[Guojing]

AND eternal Life in the Spirit comes only from the Born Again experience. NO, I am not talking about some Charismatic Experience. It is just the Birth of our Human Spirit into Eternal Life. That Human Spirit will start to dominant the will of flesh, never to return to the dominant Will of the FLESH again, if it was REAL.

John 3:36 (ESV)
36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

John 5:24 (ESV)
24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

Yes, nothing in those verses contradicts what 1 John 3:15 is saying. John furthermore explains in his letter why loving others show that one loves God (1 John 4:20-21)

 

[star]

God loves us and had adopted us into His Family... If we misbehave and He corrects us, that doesn't mean He no longer loves us, just like we correct our own children for their actions.

We love one another but that does not mean we love all actions by one another. And that means we can love a brother and if his actions are against God, we can hate his actions, not hate him.

Twisting scripture never is pleasing God.

 

[VCO]

Yes, nothing in those verses contradicts what 1 John 3:15 is saying. John furthermore explains in his letter why loving others show that one loves God (1 John 4:20-21)

Keep in Mind that JOHN, absolutely loves the Aorist Tense and the Greek Present Tense VERBS, and uses them way more in 1 John to get his point across than other books. Both of those tenses do not imply a one time or occasionally doing of those Verbs; BUT A CONTINUOUS LIFESTYLE OF DOING THOSE VERBS. Aorist Tense we do not have in English, and the Greek Present Tense is TOTALLY unlike our Present Tense.

In this VERSE we find both of those kind of verbs:

1 John 1:9 (KJV)
9 If we confess {a result of the CHANGE IN OUR HEARTS through being BORN AGAIN, we will have a lifestyle change in our attitude toward Sin in our lifes, and will want to CONFESS it immediately when we recognize it,} our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Thus Forgive and Cleanse are in the Aorist Tense are a Lifestyle on HIS part that will continually Forgive and Cleanse us from all Sin, as PART of HIS TRUE NATURE. NO, Confession did not BUY us Forgiveness. It is Part of HIS TRUE NATURE, just like IT is Part of our Born Again Nature to WANT to CONFESS SIN.

Now to 1 John 4:20-21:

1 John 4:20-21 (KJV)
20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

All FIVE of the words he used for LOVE, are the same word: agapaō love. All Five are of the same intensity of meaning, Godly Love. All Five are NEVER ENDING LOVE, a step above what is humanly possible. It is Part of our Change in our Human Spirit that takes place when the Holy Spirit births our Human Spirit into Eternal Life. Less Love than that is SIN.

See what I mean, when I share with others: they are NOT SINLESS.

Ephesians 6:24 (HCSB)
24 Grace be with all who have undying {agape} love
for our Lord Jesus Christ.

Better pray that kind of love, enters your heart, and when you fail, immediately Confess it.

 

[Guojing]

Keep in Mind that JOHN, absolutely loves the Aorist Tense and the Greek Present Tense VERBS, and uses them way more in 1 John to get his point across than other books. Both of those tenses do not imply a one time or occasionally doing of those Verbs; BUT A CONTINUOUS LIFESTYLE OF DOING THOSE VERBS. Aorist Tense we do not have in English, and the Greek Present Tense is TOTALLY unlike our Present Tense.

In this VERSE we find both of those kind of verbs:

1 John 1:9 (KJV)
9 If we confess {a result of the CHANGE IN OUR HEARTS through being BORN AGAIN, we will have a lifestyle change in our attitude toward Sin in our lifes, and will want to CONFESS it immediately when we recognize it,} our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Thus Forgive and Cleanse are in the Aorist Tense are a Lifestyle on HIS part that will continually Forgive and Cleanse us from all Sin, as PART of HIS TRUE NATURE. NO, Confession did not BUY us Forgiveness. It is Part of HIS TRUE NATURE, just like IT is Part of our Born Again Nature to WANT to CONFESS SIN.

Now to 1 John 4:20-21:

1 John 4:20-21 (KJV)
20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

All FIVE of the words he used for LOVE, are the same word: agapaō love. All Five are of the same intensity of meaning, Godly Love. All Five are NEVER ENDING LOVE, a step above what is humanly possible. It is Part of our Change in our Human Spirit that takes place when the Holy Spirit births our Human Spirit into Eternal Life. Less Love than that is SIN.

See what I mean, when I share with others: they are NOT SINLESS.

Ephesians 6:24 (HCSB)
24 Grace be with all who have undying {agape} love
for our Lord Jesus Christ.

Better pray that kind of love, enters your heart, and when you fail, immediately Confess it.

Yes, you will not find salvation by faith alone, in the finished work of Christ alone, in 1 John l.

 

[VCO]

Yes, you will not find salvation by faith alone, in the finished work of Christ alone, in 1 John l.

YES, but not without being Born Again. FAITH is NOT in your Head, it is In the Human Spirit.

Romans 10:9-10 (HCSB)
9 If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 One believes with the heart {human spirit}, resulting in righteousness, and one confesses with the mouth, resulting in salvation.

 

[Grandpa]

Who's winning?

I haven't really looked in a couple thousand pages....

 

[preacher4truth]

Who's winning?

I haven't really looked in a couple thousand pages....

Neither side really, both sides think they have or had some hand in their eternal salvation in one way or another.

 

[Guojing]

YES, but not without being Born Again. FAITH is NOT in your Head, it is In the Human Spirit.

Romans 10:9-10 (HCSB)
9 If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 One believes with the heart {human spirit}, resulting in righteousness, and one confesses with the mouth, resulting in salvation.

Good quote from Romans 10:9-10.

Have you ever wondered why John never teach that at all, but choose to focus on our works of love in 1 John for righteousness?

 

[VCO]

Good quote from Romans 10:9-10.

Have you ever wondered why John never teach that at all, but choose to focus on our works of love in 1 John for righteousness?

NO! The reason why, is the last verse of the GOSPEL OF JOHN, and it was the first BOOK I ever read beginning to end.


John 21:25 (HCSB)
25 And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which, if they were written one by one,
I suppose not even the world itself could contain the books that would be written.


That told me the WHOLE BIBLE WAS A BOOK OF HIGHLIGHTS, and it was never intended that one book would contain the Whole Story.

John DID NOT CHOOSE, GOD DID, and John just moved the pen.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (NKJV)
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

2 Peter 1:20-21 (HCSB)
20 First of all, you should know this: No prophecy of Scripture comes from one’s own interpretation,
21 because no prophecy {Scripture} ever came by the will of man; instead, men spoke from God as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Guojing]

NO! The reason why, is the last verse of the GOSPEL OF JOHN, and it was the first BOOK I ever read beginning to end.


John 21:25 (HCSB)
25 And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which, if they were written one by one,
I suppose not even the world itself could contain the books that would be written.


That told me the WHOLE BIBLE WAS A BOOK OF HIGHLIGHTS, and it was never intended that one book would contain the Whole Story.

John DID NOT CHOOSE, GOD DID, and John just moved the pen.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (NKJV)
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

2 Peter 1:20-21 (HCSB)
20 First of all, you should know this: No prophecy of Scripture comes from one’s own interpretation,
21 because no prophecy {Scripture} ever came by the will of man; instead, men spoke from God as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

So you do agree that, so far as one believes that salvation is by grace thru faith alone, in Christ finished work in the cross alone, you won't find that in 1 John?

Instead, what you will find, if you are wiling to read 1 John as it is written, is that salvation depends on us loving God and loving our neighbors? If we don't do that, we could find ourselves losing our salvation?

 

[EleventhHour]

Neither side really, both sides think they have or had some hand in their eternal salvation in one way or another.

That would be incorrect, only in the skewed Calvinist view where believing and trusting IN Jesus is falsely meritorious , yet

Jesus in fact calls us to believe IN Him.

What is meritorious is trusting IN self for salvation.

In case you cannot remember the scripture................

Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
John 6:29

But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
John 20:31

 

[EleventhHour]

Who's winning?

I haven't really looked in a couple thousand pages....

Too bad you have been missing out then on the encouraging posts that defend the true Gospel of our Lord and Saviour Christ Jesus.

I can never read those posts enough... music to my soul!!

 

[dcontroversal]

God loves us and had adopted us into His Family... If we misbehave and He corrects us, that doesn't mean He no longer loves us, just like we correct our own children for their actions.

We love one another but that does not mean we love all actions by one another. And that means we can love a brother and if his actions are against God, we can hate his actions, not hate him.

Twisting scripture never is pleasing God.

Amen....keep swinging

 

[dcontroversal]

That would be incorrect, only in the skewed Calvinist view where believing and trusting IN Jesus is falsely meritorious , yet

Jesus in fact calls us to believe IN Him.

What is meritorious is trusting IN self for salvation.

In case you cannot remember the scripture................

Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
John 6:29

But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
John 20:31

Amen....did not even have to see who you responded to to know it was a Calvinite!

 

[VCO]

So you do agree that, so far as one believes that salvation is by grace thru faith alone, in Christ finished work in the cross alone, you won't find that in 1 John?

Instead, what you will find, if you are wiling to read 1 John as it is written, is that salvation depends on us loving God and loving our neighbors? If we don't do that, we could find ourselves losing our salvation?

NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE.

With Born Again Spiritual EYES, I see it all over 1 JOHN. Only people who are not yet BORN AGAIN, see CONTRADICTIONS.

There are NO CONTRADICTIONS in any of my BIBLES, because Born Again Christians have the Spiritual Guidance In their HEARTS, to properly Interpret Scripture, in my opinion.

I am guessing that YOU think the FAITH you are talking about, is something YOU thought up in the Space Between your EARS.

That Faith, is LIKE the FAITH OF DEMONS:

1 Timothy 4:1 (NIV)
1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

James 2:19 (NIV)
19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that {Intellectually believe the Stories about Jesus are True} --and shudder.


THAT FAITH is NOT part of the Human Intellect; it is PART of the FREE GIFT OF GOD, THAT HE placed IN YOUR HEART OR HUMAN SPIRIT. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR COGNITIVE ABILITIES, or INTELLECT.

John CLEARLY started 1 John out with a Message of the GOSPEL.

1 John 1:1-4 (NIV)
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched--this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.
2 The life appeared {birthing our human spirit, with faith installed in our hearts, and Agape Love for GOD and Others already In our HEARTS; all part of the FREE GIFT OF GRACE,}; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.
3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.
4 We write this to make our joy complete.

That is the most IMPORTANT spiritual FRUIT there is, bar None, Gal. 5:22.

Now HOW IS THAT NOT PRESENTING THE GOSPEL ? ? ?

 

[VCO]

With the EXCEPTION OF LOVE is More Important than JOY.

 

[dcontroversal]

NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE.

With Born Again Spiritual EYES, I see it all over 1 JOHN. Only people who are not yet BORN AGAIN, see CONTRADICTIONS.

There are NO CONTRADICTIONS in any of my BIBLES, because Born Again Christians have the Spiritual Guidance In their HEARTS, to properly Interpret Scripture, in my opinion.

I am guessing that YOU think the FAITH you are talking about, is something YOU thought up in the Space Between your EARS.

That Faith, is LIKE the FAITH OF DEMONS:

1 Timothy 4:1 (NIV)
1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

James 2:19 (NIV)
19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that {Intellectually believe the Stories about Jesus are True} --and shudder.


THAT FAITH is NOT part of the Human Intellect; it is PART of the FREE GIFT OF GOD, THAT HE placed IN YOUR HEART OR HUMAN SPIRIT. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR COGNITIVE ABILITIES, or INTELLECT.

John CLEARLY started 1 John out with a Message of the GOSPEL.

1 John 1:1-4 (NIV)
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched--this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.
2 The life appeared {birthing our human spirit, with faith installed in our hearts, and Agape Love for GOD and Others already In our HEARTS; all part of the FREE GIFT OF GRACE,}; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.
3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.
4 We write this to make our joy complete.

That is the most IMPORTANT spiritual FRUIT there is, bar None, Gal. 5:22.

Now HOW IS THAT NOT PRESENTING THE GOSPEL ? ? ?

Amen.......

 

[Guojing]

NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE.

John CLEARLY started 1 John out with a Message of the GOSPEL.

1 John 1:1-4 (NIV)
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched--this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.
2 The life appeared {birthing our human spirit, with faith installed in our hearts, and Agape Love for GOD and Others already In our HEARTS; all part of the FREE GIFT OF GRACE,}; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.
3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.
4 We write this to make our joy complete.

If you are absolutely sure that he did, care to share which part of 1 John do you read the following?

salvation is by the free gift of grace thru faith apart from works ,
in Christ finished work on the cross

I don't mean by inserting your own commentary in blue, like what you did for 1 John 1, but where did John ever preach those in 1 John?

I have read thru all the 5 chapters and I could not find any place where John specifically mention those points.

Perhaps I miss the passages where he did preach those and I would like to learn where they are found.

 

[VCO]

If you are absolutely sure that he did, care to share which part of 1 John do you read the following?

salvation is by the free gift of grace thru faith apart from works ,
in Christ finished work on the cross

I don't mean by inserting your own commentary in blue, like what you did for 1 John 1, but where did John ever preach those in 1 John?

I have read thru all the 5 chapters and I could not find any place where John specifically mention those points.

Perhaps I miss the passages where he did preach those and I would like to learn where they are found.

One of the First Lessons that I learned that first few Months that I was Born Again.

YOU CANNOT USE ONE VERSE OF SCRIPTURE TO CONTRADICT ANOTHER. WHEN YOU DO, YOU CAN BE CERTAIN THAT YOU HAVE MISINTERPRETED AT LEAST ONE VERSE, AND MAYBE EVEN BOTH VERSES.

IN 1 John, he is speaking to BELIEVERS who he KNEW WERE Absolutely Saved Forever in the PAST. And HE IS Speaking about what happens during their SANCTIFICATION PROCESS. Now I have given you enough, so go read it for yourself. While I consider Whether or Not to put your on my Permanent IGNORE LIST. WHY?

It appears, you have very little Spiritual Understanding or maybe even NONE, by the line of questions you have been asking. Because it appears you either do not listen, and/or are addicted to arguing. In Case you do not know, it appears you have deceived yourself, if you think you are Born Again. So you need to take care of that problem FIRST. You will never understand the spiritual Truths that I am trying to desperately share with you.

Maybe this will mean something to you, at least I Pray it does:

1 Corinthians 2:12-16 (NIV)
12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.