Not By Works

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Jan 12, 2019
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One of the First Lessons that I learned that first few Months that I was Born Again.

YOU CANNOT USE ONE VERSE OF SCRIPTURE TO CONTRADICT ANOTHER. WHEN YOU DO, YOU CAN BE CERTAIN THAT YOU HAVE MISINTERPRETED AT LEAST ONE VERSE, AND MAYBE EVEN BOTH VERSES.

IN 1 John, he is speaking to BELIEVERS who he KNEW WERE Absolutely Saved Forever in the PAST. And HE IS Speaking about what happens during their SANCTIFICATION PROCESS. Now I have given you enough, so go read it for yourself. While I consider Whether or Not to put your on my Permanent IGNORE LIST. WHY?

It appears, you have very little Spiritual Understanding or maybe even NONE, by the line of questions you have been asking. Because it appears you either do not listen, and/or are addicted to arguing. In Case you do not know, it appears you have deceived yourself, if you think you are Born Again. So you need to take care of that problem FIRST. You will never understand the spiritual Truths that I am trying to desperately share with you.

Maybe this will mean something to you, at least I Pray it does:

1 Corinthians 2:12-16 (NIV)
12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
Alright then, I was inviting you to share your understanding of 1 John, where it teaches the salvation doctrine found in Paul's letters to the Body of Christ.

You are free to decline that invitation, without passing judgement on others.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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Ephesians 2:8–9 reads, "For by grace ye are saved through faith: and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast." (KJV)
 
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Ephesians 2:8–9 reads, "For by grace ye are saved through faith: and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast." (KJV)
Can you ever find a teaching like that in 1 John?
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Can you ever find a teaching like that in 1 John?

“These things I write unto you, that ye may know that you have eternal life, even unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God”
(1 John 5:13).

"That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you also, that ye also may have fellowship with us: yea, and our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ: and these things we write, that our joy may be made full”
(1 John 1:3-4).

Can you see his focus is fellowship?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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I have a lady cousin, that obviously does not know here Bible. She is ranting and raving because Her favorite Grocery Store, now Requires a Mask to enter the Store. I heard she is posting on Social Media statements like: I am never going to shop their again, because they are infringing on my Constitutional Rights to enter their store without a mask. So, where in the Constitution, is that exactly, I cannot find it.

Those kind of People the Medical Masks are not for them, they are for the rest of us to feel SAFE around them. Don't you turn around and got to a different Aisle when you see a person without a mask, OR at least hold your breath until you get way past them.
They do not GET IT.


Montana did a SURVEY on People who has contacted Covid-19 Virus, and the discovered, the vast Majority of Covid-19 cases had been in a Bar without a mask, drinking in the past 2 weeks. BUT THEY THINK IT IS THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

So sense when not wearing a Covid-19 Mask, violates they Constitutional Right ? ? ?

AND HOW DO THEY NOT THINK THIS SCRIPTURE applies to THEM.

Romans 13:1-7 (NIV)
1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you.
4 For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.
6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing.
7 Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.


The Store OWNER is the Governing Authority in this CASE.

1595955198849.jpeg - 1595955607434.jpeg

 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Did you HERE the latest, the Kentucky Governor announced in his State, the number of cases of Covid-19 DOUBLED in the Month of July alone.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,582
2,046
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North Carolina
Did you HERE the latest, the Kentucky Governor announced in his State, the number of cases of Covid-19 DOUBLED in the Month of July alone.

I won' respond about the virus but one time because I do not want to turn this thread into a political post but I will say only this. We have been and are being lied to about this virus
 
Jan 12, 2019
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“These things I write unto you, that ye may know that you have eternal life, even unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God”
(1 John 5:13).

"That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you also, that ye also may have fellowship with us: yea, and our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ: and these things we write, that our joy may be made full”
(1 John 1:3-4).

Can you see his focus is fellowship?
Good point. Did John ever said that eternal life does not depend on works?

In fact he stated the opposite of that, we need to do righteousness to be considered righteous

I have already given you verses in all his 5 chapters regarding this
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,967
4,585
113
Can you ever find a teaching like that in 1 John?

1 John 4:1-8 (NIV)
1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.
5 They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them.
6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.
7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.
8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.


If you cannot tell that is the GOSPEL, then in my opinion, You are YET to be actually, Born Again.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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1 John 4:1-8 (NIV)
1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.
5 They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them.
6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.
7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.
8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.



If you cannot tell that is the GOSPEL, then in my opinion, You are YET to be actually, Born Again.
Alright, since you chose this passage from 1 John, let us use it then.

Does verse 7 and 8 sounds like salvation, which you link to being born again/born of God, apart from works?

In fact, if you are willing to read it literally, he made 2 claims there

Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.
and
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

That is certainly not saying the same thing as Ephesians 2:9, nor Romans 3:21 to me.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Good point. Did John ever said that eternal life does not depend on works?

In fact he stated the opposite of that, we need to do righteousness to be considered righteous

I have already given you verses in all his 5 chapters regarding this

That righteousness is>>>>>>>>>>>> the Righteousness of Christ imputed to the born again believer.

God made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.
2 Cor 5:21
Berean Study Bible
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Can you find a statement that contradicts that statement?

Have you considered that the letters of John have a different theme and focus?
There are plenty of other statements that John made that contradict what you picked

1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. 29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him

1 John 3:
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

John is urging Israel to abide in him in 1 John 2, what does he meant by abide? He explains in 1 John 3, those who sin not are the ones that abide in him.

So if one takes the mark of the beast, that is a clear indication of not abiding in him.

He will only be ashamed when Jesus finally returns at his 2nd coming for Israel. There will be no future salvation for him to expect, as John said in vs8, he is of the devil.

This is in-line with what is stated in Revelations 14:9-12.

Contrast to Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; and 1 John 2 and 3
 
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That righteousness is>>>>>>>>>>>> the Righteousness of Christ imputed to the born again believer.

God made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.
2 Cor 5:21
Berean Study Bible
Yes, I have told you many times I agree with you that OSAS is preached by Paul.

I am telling you that John never preached OSAS, you cannot find that in his letters.

Instead, you actually find him preaching many times that salvation, eternal life, righteousness, are all conditional on our works, especially works of love.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Ephesians 2:8–9 reads, "For by grace ye are saved through faith: and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast." (KJV)
Amen...and yet religionists seek to make the bible produce numerous gospels.....like the idiotic post after the one referenced here.....from front to back, salvation has always been by grace through faith!!
 
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1 John 4:1-8 (NIV)
1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.
5 They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them.
6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.
7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.
8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.


If you cannot tell that is the GOSPEL, then in my opinion, You are YET to be actually, Born Again.
One and only one gospel has power to save....what he peddles is not the one and only one gospel with power to save!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Yes, I have told you many times I agree with you that OSAS is preached by Paul.

I am telling you that John never preached OSAS, you cannot find that in his letters.

Instead, you actually find him preaching many times that salvation, eternal life, righteousness, are all conditional on our works, especially works of love.
Dude....this is ignorant.....John and Paul did not contradict each other and there is only one gospel that will save.....You absolutely make the bible contradict itself and God into a nitwit......
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Dude....this is ignorant.....John and Paul did not contradict each other and there is only one gospel that will save.....You absolutely make the bible contradict itself and God into a nitwit......
I didn't say they contradict.

Their respective teachings are true for different audiences and different time periods.

Its like Moses teachings about animal sacrifices and circumcision were true for Israel during the period of the OT. But its not the truth for this time period.