Not By Works

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BenjaminN

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Oct 7, 2020
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#149,145
Agree, Yeshua ha'Mashiach's atonement offering for our salvation "not by works", but salvation "for good works".
 
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eternally-gratefull

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BenjaminN said:
I agree, except for the generalisation coined to "jews".

Ephesians 2 (ESV)

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Not all "jews" (those of Israel's 12 tribes that are from the tribes of Judah/Benjamin/Levi) had evil works, and tried to obey God's commandments of love.

Their are "jews" who have followed, are following, and will follow Yeshua ha'Maschiach / Jesus the Messiah, who gave us his atonement offering, and showed us the way of perfecting love, and faithfully walking in God's commandments.

Yeshua / Jesus, the "jew", his twelve disciples - the "jews", and the apostle Paul were all "jews".

Their is nothing in the Brit Chadashah / New Testament scriptures, save for the Gospel of Luke - written by Luke the Greek doctor, that have not been written by "jews", about "jews" and for "jews" and for those of Israel's other tribes, scattered among all the nations of the earth, who became lost sheep and lost their Israel identity (which Yeshua / Jesus came to gather into one).

The hypocritic "jew" leadership of that time however, did not follow God's commandments (mostly paid lip service, and it was not from the heart), and did not like being called out for this - and saw Yeshua / Jesus as a threat to their position.


Matthew 23 (NLT)

2 “The teachers of religious law and the Pharisees are the official interpreters of the law of Moses. 3 So practice and obey whatever they tell you, but don’t follow their example. For they don’t practice what they teach.
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You missed the point altogether

no jew was righteous, only one, and he was god,

as paul said in Gal 3, the law cannot save you because the law required perfection, it was not given to save, it to point you to Christ as a schoolmaster, if you think your righteous, the law has failed to do its job, again, it’s why they jews crucified Christ, and why they tried to have people in the church jailed or killed, saul/paul was one of them until he repented,
 
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eternally-gratefull

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#149,152
BenjaminN said:
Works is the fruit of salvation. If the fruit is absent, the seed of salvation was not sown.
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Faith is the key not works

to many people focus one works, that takes our eye of God and puts it on self,

focus on faith and loving others, and works will become natural through the power of God
 
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BenjaminN

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Oct 7, 2020
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eternally-gratefull said:
You missed the point altogether

no jew was righteous, only one, and he was god,

as paul said in Gal 3, the law cannot save you because the law required perfection, it was not given to save, it to point you to Christ as a schoolmaster, if you think your righteous, the law has failed to do its job, again, it’s why they jews crucified Christ, and why they tried to have people in the church jailed or killed, saul/paul was one of them until he repented,
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1 Corinthians 6 (KJV)

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
 
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BenjaminN

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Oct 7, 2020
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eternally-gratefull said:
Yes,

and in gratitude, out of a grateful heart and due to a changed nature, we begin to work for him as he sanctifies us
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It is not us that do the works of sanctification, but God that works through us - his Spirit draws us to holiness. If the works are absent, and someone says but I believe, he was not sanctified, nor saved by God's grace. God clothes us with the works of righteousness so we may be a worthy bride for the Lamb.

IT IS NOT THROUGH OURSELVES THAT WE WORK GOD'S WORKS.

BUT SALVATION IS BY FAITH (given by God) AND WORKS (given by God) - the one cannot be without the other.
 
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eternally-gratefull

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#149,155
BenjaminN said:

1 Corinthians 6 (KJV)

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
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Yep

and why were they no longer unrighteous? Because they stopped sinning and fulfilled the law?

no, the law still condemned, they were no longer considered unrighteousness because of justification (the righteousness of Christ)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#149,156
#149,156
BenjaminN said:
It is not us that do the works of sanctification, but God that works through us - his Spirit draws us to holiness. If the works are absent, and someone says but I believe, he was not sanctified, nor saved by God's grace. God clothes us with the works of righteousness so we may be a worthy bride for the Lamb.

IT IS NOT THROUGH OURSELVES THAT WE WORK GOD'S WORKS.

BUT SALVATION IS BY FAITH (given by God) AND WORKS (given by God) - the one cannot be without the other.
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But you can not know if someone is doing works or not really

you have religious people acting like believers who have never met Christ and Christians like the Corinthian church That look like they are not working
 
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BenjaminN

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Oct 7, 2020
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John 6 (ESV)

44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

James 2 (ESV)

24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.


1 John 2 (ESV)

4 Whoever says "I know him" but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: 6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.


Matthew 7 (ESV)

15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?


Matthew 7 (ESV)

21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.


Ephesians 2 (ESV)

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

The gift of salvation of our sins being forgiven, by the atonement offering of Yeshua ha'Mashiach's / Jesus the Messiah's life sacrifice is the WORK OF GOD. It brings FAITH and WORKS in the righteous saved by GOD, it is not our faith or our works, but the FAITH AND WORKS GOD, WORKS IN OUR LIVES, and prepares us on a path of SANCTIFICATION, so we may enter his HOLY PRESENCE and not be CONSUMED BY HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS, but that we may be JUSTIFIED.
 
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BenjaminN

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Oct 7, 2020
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eternally-gratefull said:
Yep

and why were they no longer unrighteous? Because they stopped sinning and fulfilled the law?

no, the law still condemned, they were no longer considered unrighteousness because of justification (the righteousness of Christ)
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I agree fully, GOD washed their clothes, and clothed them in new works of sanctification, for their justification.
 
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BenjaminN

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Oct 7, 2020
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John 8 (ESV)

10 Jesus stood up and said to her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" 11 She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more."]]
 
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