Not By Works

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CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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What happens when we say "no" to the Holy Spirit when He speaks to our conscience?
What happens when you say no to the Holy Spirit? We all sin and fall short of God’s glory. Often times a Christian may feel guilt when saying no to the Spirit. I don’t believe a child of God can stop being a child of God.
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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Yes, but thankfully we "can do all things through Christ Which strengthens" all of us, right? :)

My favorite preacher used to say, "No one is going to hell because of sin...for we have All sinned. People are going to hell because provision was made for their salvation and they refused to take advantage of it."
Yes, the provision is Jesus. His death on the cross and resurrection was enough and always will be enough to save.
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
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Matt 24 is about the last days

Not eternal life
Your wrong.
Matthew 24:12-13 is about Christians whose AGAPE love grows cold and dead in them because of they refused to cease from iniquity and thus failed to endure to the end and ended up not saved. Let's just read the text as it's written, and not through the tinted lenses of OSAS, OK?
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
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Your the one pumping your chest telling everyone how righteous you are. and calling out sinners.

Thats what the pharisee did.
I can't boast in anything except Jesus and His truth which I love.

And why not? It's EASY to love the truth. The challenge is loving the brethren, especially those who attack you for preaching truth while they themselves preach lies like OSAS, which is condemned in Ezekiel 13:22-23 KJV.
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
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what is an Antichrist.

he who denies jesus is the christ ie a non believer, ie one who lives in sin.

how do we know?

Because John also said he who lives in sin has never seen God.. A true believe can not live in sin, because they are born of God

You need to brush up on your john
I already know that, so no need for me to brush up. What I'd like to see you do is brush up on some Greek, so that you can discover that "Anti-" means "in place of", "instead of", "in behalf of", "for". Do you know what the Latin "Vicarius Filii Dei" means and who claims that as their title?
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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If that is enough, then no one is going to hell, right? Or, is there some responsibility on our part?
Jesus told us what to do which is to believe on him. John 1:12 ( KJV) says “ But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name”
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
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Jesus told us what to do which is to believe on him. John 1:12 ( KJV) says “ But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name”
Amen...which is why salvation cannot be "unconditional" - it requires that a condition be met - belief.

But, that opens up a whole other kettle of fish:

The devils also "believe" but are lost.
Some say, "well, they don't believe ENOUGH".
OK, how much is "enough"?
Some say, "Enough to TRUST in Jesus".
OK, trust in Him for what?
Salvation.
OK, but I already have salvation because I believe, so we're back to square one.

Can you see that this limited idea of what it means to "believe" only results in circular reasoning? Every flippin definition and notion is thrown around EXCEPT the Biblical definition of what it means to have faith and to believe:

DOING SOMETHING -- according to Hebrews 11.

Not to be saved, but because we believe.

"I believe lies, greed, selfishness, envy, porn, etc., hurts God and my neighbor, so I will pray for power to cease."
It's the unavoidable direction to which the Christian must go, or be lost :)
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
1,831
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Amen...which is why salvation cannot be "unconditional" - it requires that a condition be met - belief.

But, that opens up a whole other kettle of fish:

The devils also "believe" but are lost.
Some say, "well, they don't believe ENOUGH".
OK, how much is "enough"?
Some say, "Enough to TRUST in Jesus".
OK, trust in Him for what?
Salvation.
OK, but I already have salvation because I believe, so we're back to square one.

Can you see that this limited idea of what it means to "believe" only results in circular reasoning? Every flippin definition and notion is thrown around EXCEPT the Biblical definition of what it means to have faith and to believe:

DOING SOMETHING -- according to Hebrews 11.

Not to be saved, but because we believe.

"I believe lies, greed, selfishness, envy, porn, etc., hurts God and my neighbor, so I will pray for power to cease."
It's the unavoidable direction to which the Christian must go, or be lost :)
Here are some definitions from my point of view:

Believe: to assess a statement as being true
Trust: to rely on, look to ( as for salvation) , depend upon an individual
Receive( in the sense of receiving Christ): to accept, to welcome in to stay

The devil does believe but does not trust nor receive Jesus. I believe a born again believer in Jesus believes, trusts and receives Christ. For me, trust does not have to be big but it can be small and mature as one knows and follows Jesus. As someone with experience with anxiety disorder, trust in God is not something to come so naturally but I see it growing in me.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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I'll make it easy for you: If the condition which must be met in order to receive salvation is that we "believe", then is salvation conditional or unconditional?
Who gets the credit for your faith? you or God.

lest anyone should boast, you take credit for your faith
 
Mar 14, 2011
73,918
16,575
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Matthew 24:12-13 is about Christians whose AGAPE love grows cold and dead in them because of they refused to cease from iniquity and thus failed to endure to the end and ended up not saved. Let's just read the text as it's written, and not through the tinted lenses of OSAS, OK?
Nope, read the whole thing in those days, not today

and where does it say they are christian? It says the love of many, the word christian is not there
 
Mar 14, 2011
73,918
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I can't boast in anything except Jesus and His truth which I love.

And why not? It's EASY to love the truth. The challenge is loving the brethren, especially those who attack you for preaching truth while they themselves preach lies like OSAS, which is condemned in Ezekiel 13:22-23 KJV.
Yet you boast in yourself everytime you talk

you are decieved my friend
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,809
4,576
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Nope, read the whole thing in those days, not today

and where does it say they are christian? It says the love of many, the word christian is not there
they think they have authority over Scripture, and can just mix and match however they please.

guess they think they can add and subtract anyhow they wish.

seems like their is a warning at the very end of the Bible saying not to do that.....
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
2,216
317
83
Here are some definitions from my point of view:

Believe: to assess a statement as being true
Trust: to rely on, look to ( as for salvation) , depend upon an individual
Receive( in the sense of receiving Christ): to accept, to welcome in to stay

The devil does believe but does not trust nor receive Jesus. I believe a born again believer in Jesus believes, trusts and receives Christ. For me, trust does not have to be big but it can be small and mature as one knows and follows Jesus. As someone with experience with anxiety disorder, trust in God is not something to come so naturally but I see it growing in me.
Yes, "trust" and "receive" are definitely concepts that are mentioned implicitly in the "faith" chapter of Hebrews 11, but do you know what it mentions explicitly? Obedience. So, when we speak of salvation as being obtained by "belief" aka "faith", obedience is not a peripheral concept, but integral to belief, as Hebrews 11 teaches us.
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
2,216
317
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Who gets the credit for your faith? you or God.

lest anyone should boast, you take credit for your faith
It's not that difficult. Is English your first language? Salvation is granted only to those who meet the condition for only for those who meet the condition in order to receive it: that condition is "belief" aka "faith".
Who gets the credit for your faith? you or God.

lest anyone should boast, you take credit for your faith
Is salvation conditional or not?
 
Mar 14, 2011
73,918
16,575
113
It's not that difficult. Is English your first language? Salvation is granted only to those who meet the condition for only for those who meet the condition in order to receive it: that condition is "belief" aka "faith".
Is salvation conditional or not?
If abraham was saved by works, he has something to boast about Romans 4
for by grace we have been saved through faith, not of works

so you tell me, is faith a work that we do to earn salvation? Or is faith a gift of God, based on HIS WORK.in our life?
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
2,216
317
83
If abraham was saved by works, he has something to boast about Romans 4
for by grace we have been saved through faith, not of works

so you tell me, is faith a work that we do to earn salvation? Or is faith a gift of God, based on HIS WORK.in our life?
Is salvation conditional or not?
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
2,216
317
83
Yet you boast in yourself everytime you talk

you are decieved my friend
You are deceived by OSAS which says sinners may obtain by dead faith that which can only be obtained by living faith: eternal life.

I pray you and others repent and manifest living faith through the power of my Saviour.