Not By Works

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gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,825
4,588
113
He is one who professes Christ as his Lord and Savior, yet:
  • commits deliberate, known, habitual sin...
  • tells the Holy Spirit to get lost every time He attempts to lead him out of his deliberate, known, habitual sin...
  • has no intention of ever repenting from his deliberate, known, habitual sin...
  • and then claims his sin is covered by the blood of Jesus...
...is a presumptuous sinner, no matter now much of a saint his vain words claim him to be. King David said, "Keep back Thy servant from presumptuous sins. Let them not have dominion over me. Then shall I be upright, and shall be innocent of the Great Transgression."

The absolute worse thing a person can do is to perpetually claim, "I'm going to go ahead and indulge this sin and God's mercy will grant me forgiveness later." It's the "Great Transgression".

but, as with my earlier example of 2 addicts , you do not KNOW that.

that is why you should not judge another's salvation .
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
2,239
322
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I disagree with what you are saying. We know Paul addressed using the grace of God as a license to sin in Romans. To preach contrary to that is wrong and abhorrent.

What are your thoughts concerning eternal security.
Is it different from the understanding that you have concerning OSAS?
Paul preached that God's love is conditional, but salvation is very much conditional...on condition that we surrender our will to God's will.

"Not My will, but Thy will" was the Savior's prayer of surrender. The servant - you and me - is not greater than his Master, thus, we are to "walk even as He walked" and as Christians, follow the example of Christ.

He himself said, "It is not the hearers of the law, but the doers of the law that are justified in His sight" meaning those have opened the door of their heart to Jesus will evidence this by His overcoming power in their own lives for all to see. As long as our will is surrendered to Jesus, we can be absolutely certain of eternal security.
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
2,239
322
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then that person was not a true believer.

and, by the way, i am NOT osas.

one can decide to make Christ Lord, and then one day change that decision.

but, that probably means that person was never a true believer.
I said he loved God with all his heart, soul, and might, and loved his neighbor as himself...only a born again, grace saved saint is capable of this, for "the CARNAL MIND is enmity with God; it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."

It is not fair to assert that a person who turns back to the world has never believed, when the Bible contains several examples of that very thing, such as those who "were made partakers of the Holy Spirit" - God only gives the Holy Spirit "to them that obey Him", which means their minds were NOT CARNAL, but converted.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,825
4,588
113
I said he loved God with all his heart, soul, and might, and loved his neighbor as himself...only a born again, grace saved saint is capable of this, for "the carnal mind is enmity with God; it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."

you just want to judge.
got a cousin just like you. heard it all many times. just pumping yourself up by riding a religious high horse.
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
2,239
322
83
You do not understand eternal salvation if you believe you can lose it. That's a statement. You were condescending in your whole paragraphed response to me. As for being a snowflake, you have no idea how strong I am.
Please let me get this straight....you can say I don't understand salvation and that is OK....but if I say you don't understand God's character or what love is, that is somehow "condescension"?

Sorry, that's not how it works in the real world...only in the world of special snowflake cloud cookie land.;)
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
2,239
322
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I am talking about you as a person co paired to all mankind, apart from the grace of God

ypur claim we can be saved and not get to heaven, that’s your argument, that we can somehow sin ourself out,

I am telling you the fact, that that person who you claims sinned himself out of salvation. Is just as guilty as you, not make re not less

you want to puff yourself up, when you should be humbly bowing on your knees
What did Jesus say in Matthew 24:12-13 KJV?

"And because iniquity shall abound, the AGAPE of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved."

See that? The "agape" of many shall wax cold and dead - and these many can only be SAINTS because sinners cannot partake of His agape. And, guess what else? They --- these same "partakers of agape --- that "shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved" means there will be some who do not endure to the end, and will be lost.

Not sure how anyone can interpret this to mean anything else, because the words of the Savior are pretty clear.
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
2,239
322
83
you just want to judge.
got a cousin just like you. heard it all many times. just pumping yourself up by riding a religious high horse.
The Jews who were slaves to sin and self accused Jesus of the same thing when He spoke the same words I'm speaking here, so I guess I'm in good company ;)
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
1,834
1,168
113
He is one who professes Christ as his Lord and Savior, yet:
  • commits deliberate, known, habitual sin...
  • tells the Holy Spirit to get lost every time He attempts to lead him out of his deliberate, known, habitual sin...
  • has no intention of ever repenting from his deliberate, known, habitual sin...
  • and then claims his sin is covered by the blood of Jesus...
...is a presumptuous sinner, no matter now much of a saint his vain words claim him to be. King David said, "Keep back Thy servant from presumptuous sins. Let them not have dominion over me. Then shall I be upright, and shall be innocent of the Great Transgression."

The absolute worse thing a person can do is to perpetually claim, "I'm going to go ahead and indulge this sin and God's mercy will grant me forgiveness later." It's the "Great Transgression".
Someone who tells the Holy Spirit to “get lost” is not showing love in such moment. I haven’t heard of a Christian telling the Spirit that. I suspect if a believer did say that to the Spirit the person would likely feel sorry later and repent of what they said.

I believe that love for God is demonstrated through actions and desire to please God. If you don’t love God then you won’t care about pleasing him. In my view, love for God and people may indicate faith while hatred for God and people shows unbelief.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,825
4,588
113
The Jews who were slaves to sin and self accused Jesus of the same thing when He spoke the same words I'm speaking here, so I guess I'm in good company ;)
yep, just like i thought. " if you disagree with me, then you disagree with Jesus".

spoken like a true Bible thumping legalist.
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
1,834
1,168
113
Please let me get this straight....you can say I don't understand salvation and that is OK....but if I say you don't understand God's character or what love is, that is somehow "condescension"?

Sorry, that's not how it works in the real world...only in the world of special snowflake cloud cookie land.;)
Phone-man-777, this is not right. You are implying another user is a snowflake by your words. Please don’t resort to political name-callings. This does nothing to build up the body of Christ.
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
2,239
322
83
but, as with my earlier example of 2 addicts , you do not KNOW that.

that is why you should not judge another's salvation .
Isn't claiming "the person was never saved to begin with" judging their salvation, namely the lack thereof?
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
2,239
322
83
Someone who tells the Holy Spirit to “get lost” is not showing love in such moment. I haven’t heard of a Christian telling the Spirit that. I suspect if a believer did say that to the Spirit the person would likely feel sorry later and repent of what they said.

I believe that love for God is demonstrated through actions and desire to please God. If you don’t love God then you won’t care about pleasing him. In my view, love for God and people may indicate faith while hatred for God and people shows unbelief.
When a born again Christian man is tempted to watch porn, and the Holy Spirit is pleading with him to pray for strength, go for a walk, do WHATEVER to resist the devil...and the man refuses to listen and continues surfing the web, that is telling the Holy Spirit to get lost, right or wrong?
 
Feb 22, 2021
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It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

English Standard Version
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
He saved us, not by works in righteousness that we did, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
The Work we are supposed to do, as Apostle James was pointing to, is meditating in Divine Eucharistic Revelations from the GOD. That is the work that we are supposed to do.
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
2,239
322
83
It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

English Standard Version
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
He saved us, not by works in righteousness that we did, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
"If any man abideth not in Me, he is cast forth as a branch to the fire.

To whom is Jesus speaking? Christians.
What warning does he give them? To continuously abide in Him or be cast into the fire.
Would Jesus bother to warn us if there were no consequences to begin with? No, if you believe in the Bible, but Yes, if you believe in OSAS ;)
 
Mar 14, 2011
74,033
16,603
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Paul preached that God's love is conditional, but salvation is very much conditional...on condition that we surrender our will to God's will.

"Not My will, but Thy will" was the Savior's prayer of surrender. The servant - you and me - is not greater than his Master, thus, we are to "walk even as He walked" and as Christians, follow the example of Christ.

He himself said, "It is not the hearers of the law, but the doers of the law that are justified in His sight" meaning those have opened the door of their heart to Jesus will evidence this by His overcoming power in their own lives for all to see. As long as our will is surrendered to Jesus, we can be absolutely certain of eternal security.
If salvation is conditional
1. is is of works not grace
2. man CAN boast of meeting the condition
3. it is not a gift, it is a reward, or a wage.
4. it is not unmerited favor (grace) it is merited favor (works)

no two ways about it, as paul said, if it is of grace it is not of works otherwise grace is no longer grace,l
 
Mar 14, 2011
74,033
16,603
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you just want to judge.
got a cousin just like you. heard it all many times. just pumping yourself up by riding a religious high horse.
Modern pharisee who loves to pump his chest, because he thinks he is righteousness, while refusing to become like the tax collector
 
Mar 14, 2011
74,033
16,603
113
What did Jesus say in Matthew 24:12-13 KJV?

"And because iniquity shall abound, the AGAPE of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved."

See that? The "agape" of many shall wax cold and dead - and these many can only be SAINTS because sinners cannot partake of His agape. And, guess what else? They --- these same "partakers of agape --- that "shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved" means there will be some who do not endure to the end, and will be lost.

Not sure how anyone can interpret this to mean anything else, because the words of the Savior are pretty clear.
Yep

and what is the context?
the great tribulation,

right before the return of Christ, where the love of many shall grow cold in the last days, but he who endured until the end (the day christ returns) shall be saved (physically)

you legalists love to twist this to be speaking of eternal salvation which that is not the context of what Jesus was speaking of.

nice try though. If you think he is speaking of eternal salvation, so be it’s yu will find out one day
 
Mar 14, 2011
74,033
16,603
113
Someone who tells the Holy Spirit to “get lost” is not showing love in such moment. I haven’t heard of a Christian telling the Spirit that. I suspect if a believer did say that to the Spirit the person would likely feel sorry later and repent of what they said.

I believe that love for God is demonstrated through actions and desire to please God. If you don’t love God then you won’t care about pleasing him. In my view, love for God and people may indicate faith while hatred for God and people shows unbelief.
the Only people who would tell the spirit to get lost are those who never experienced his love and his power. As John said, “they were never of us”