Not By Works

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Phoneman-777

Phoneman-777

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throughfaith said:
lest any man should boast. Eph 2 .

Luke 18:9-14

King James Version



9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
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Lest any man should presume:

"He that covereth his sins (with a OSAS License) shall not prosper, but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy." Proverbs 28:13 KJV
 
Phoneman-777

Phoneman-777

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throughfaith said:
If they recieve Jesus yes .
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What is the evidence they have?

"Hereby we do know that we know Him IF we keep His commandments. He that saith, I know Him (and He gave me a sweeeeeeeeet OSAS License to Sin)" and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him."

1 John 2:3-4 KJV
 
Phoneman-777

Phoneman-777

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throughfaith said:
James 1
1¶James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
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I seem to recall a little thing that put an end to the distinction between Jew and Gentile: the Cross.
 
Phoneman-777

Phoneman-777

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CherieR said:
Old Testament saints were saved by grace through faith too. In the Old Testament, they were still waiting for the Messiah Jesus to come. I don’t think Old Testament saints necessarily understood everything about the Messiah and his coming but they did have faith in God. Abraham was justified by his faith in God.
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Amen.
 
Phoneman-777

Phoneman-777

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Guojing said:
Romans 4 has an example of what the OT saints would also say to us

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

That is the advantage we have in the Body of Christ, that they did not.
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Disadvantage? Please explain.
 
CherieR

CherieR

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Phoneman-777 said:
Isn't Jesus both our Savior and Lord? Contrary to popular belief, we either accept Jesus as both or not at all.

"And why call ye Me, Lord Lord, and do not the things which I say?" Luke 6:46 KJV
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Would you be familiar with the parable of 10 minas in Luke 19? There were some citizens in that parable who didn’t want a particular king over them. It appears to me this is because these citizens hated him.

Believers in Jesus do not hate the Lord Jesus but love him and want him to be king in the heart and life.
 
CherieR

CherieR

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Phoneman-777 said:
What is the evidence they have?

"Hereby we do know that we know Him IF we keep His commandments. He that saith, I know Him (and He gave me a sweeeeeeeeet OSAS License to Sin)" and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him."

1 John 2:3-4 KJV
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I believe that part of the evidence is love. Love for God and love for people. Remember that Jesus said the greatest commandment is to love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and the second to love your neighbor as yourself.( see Matthew 22:36-40)

I believe another evidence is faith in Jesus and how it appears in one’s own life. When we trust in Jesus day by day and through trials, this shows faith. Longing to see Jesus return shows faith. Prayer and rejoicing in God shows faith. Even still doubt can and often comes with faith but God is faithful and true.
 
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Guojing

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Phoneman-777 said:
Disadvantage? Please explain.
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We have forgiveness of sins now in the Body of Christ (Ephesians 1:7)

David will only have his sins forgiven later, when the nation Israel is forgiven under the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:12, Romans 11:25-27, Acts 3:19-21).
 
oyster67

oyster67

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Guojing said:
We have forgiveness of sins now in the Body of Christ (Ephesians 1:7)

David will only have his sins forgiven later, when the nation Israel is forgiven under the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:12, Romans 11:25-27, Acts 3:19-21).
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If David and Abraham were men of faith, then they won't need to be forgiven like the unbelieving Judaizers, correct?

Hebrews
11:32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and [of] Barak, and [of] Samson, and [of] Jephthae; [of] David also, and Samuel, and [of] the prophets:
11:33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
 
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Guojing

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oyster67 said:
If David and Abraham were men of faith, then they won't need to be forgiven like the unbelieving Judaizers, correct?

Hebrews
11:32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and [of] Barak, and [of] Samson, and [of] Jephthae; [of] David also, and Samuel, and [of] the prophets:
11:33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
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As long as you belong to the nation Israel, Israel's sins are your sins too.

If you want to quote Hebrews 11, make sure you also quote the last 2 verses

39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

They did not receive complete forgiveness of their sins, and will only receive them when the New Covenant begins for Israel.

That is the advantage we have in the Body of Christ, that they do not have.
 
oyster67

oyster67

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Guojing said:
That is the advantage we have in the Body of Christ, that they do not have.
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They have the same opportunity to come to Jesus today as the rest of us do. Have you forgotten that the early Church was comprised mostly of Jewish Christians?
 
G

Guojing

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oyster67 said:
They have the same opportunity to come to Jesus today as the rest of us do. Have you forgotten that the early Church was comprised mostly of Jewish Christians?
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David did not live to see Jesus in his 1st coming.

He is now in Paradise, like Abraham and others, waiting for the 2nd return of Christ. (Daniel 12:1-2)
 
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throughfaith

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Phoneman-777 said:
Lest any man should presume:

"He that covereth his sins (with a OSAS License) shall not prosper, but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy." Proverbs 28:13 KJV
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Yes before the cross. Your not very good at this are you? Remember the cross ?
 
T

throughfaith

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Phoneman-777 said:
Isn't Jesus both our Savior and Lord? Contrary to popular belief, we either accept Jesus as both or not at all.

"And why call ye Me, Lord Lord, and do not the things which I say?" Luke 6:46 KJV
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Phoneman-777 said:
Isn't Jesus both our Savior and Lord? Contrary to popular belief, we either accept Jesus as both or not at all.

"And why call ye Me, Lord Lord, and do not the things which I say?" Luke 6:46 KJV
Click to expand...
Remember the cross ?
 
T

throughfaith

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CherieR said:
Old Testament saints were saved by grace through faith too. In the Old Testament, they were still waiting for the Messiah Jesus to come. I don’t think Old Testament saints necessarily understood everything about the Messiah and his coming but they did have faith in God. Abraham was justified by his faith in God.
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oyster67 said:
Amen!!! Got me good! Jesus is Lord indeed!:D What a good good thing that God is good, tender, loving, and merciful, as well as just.
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let's avoid Lordship salvation though .
 
T

throughfaith

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Phoneman-777 said:
What is the evidence they have?

"Hereby we do know that we know Him IF we keep His commandments. He that saith, I know Him (and He gave me a sweeeeeeeeet OSAS License to Sin)" and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him."

1 John 2:3-4 KJV
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Yes Paul was also accused of preaching a license to sin by the legalists .
 
Phoneman-777

Phoneman-777

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CherieR said:
I believe that part of the evidence is love. Love for God and love for people. Remember that Jesus said the greatest commandment is to love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and the second to love your neighbor as yourself.( see Matthew 22:36-40)

I believe another evidence is faith in Jesus and how it appears in one’s own life. When we trust in Jesus day by day and through trials, this shows faith. Longing to see Jesus return shows faith. Prayer and rejoicing in God shows faith. Even still doubt can and often comes with faith but God is faithful and true.
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"Love God/thy neighbor...On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." From Genesis to Revelation, God testifies to the principle that love and obedience are intrinsically tied:

Jesus said those who love Him will "keep My commandments".
Solomon said "the whole duty of man" is to "fear (love/honor) God and keep His commandments".
John also says our love is demonstrated by our "walk after His commandments."

The reason why this inseparable bond is so unwelcome to many is because of the unavoidable conclusion: if from love is the fountain from which obedience perpetually springs, then iniquity is evidence of the absence of love. This is why so many churches have redefined salvation as God's promise to shield us from the consequences of practicing deliberate, known, habitual sin rather than power to overcome it.
 
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