Not By Works

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Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
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Perhaps James never got the email? I am impressed you referred to the cross though .
Even at late as Acts 21:20-25, James never allowed Jewish believers to be free from the Law. The ascended Christ also never told any of them that Jews do not need to be zealous for the Law.
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
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We have forgiveness of sins now in the Body of Christ (Ephesians 1:7)

David will only have his sins forgiven later, when the nation Israel is forgiven under the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:12, Romans 11:25-27, Acts 3:19-21).
Bulldookey.

1) Hebrews 8:12 KJV is merely quoting the OT promise that was fulfilled at the Cross.

2) When David prayed for forgiveness in Psalm 51, he was every bit as forgiven as Jesus said was the Unmerciful Servant; a thing Jesus said was so before the alleged dispensation of the "body of Christ", right or wrong?

3) As for the "blotting out" of Acts 3, the OT sanctuary service says when the Israelite came and offered his sacrifice, his sin was transferred to the blood of the lamb, allowing him to return to his tent fully forgiven. However, the record of sin was recorded within the sanctuary via the sprinkling of blood and covered by a "lambs skins dyed red" roof...even a blind man can see the symbolism. At the end of the ritual year, it was the record of sin which was blotted out: forgiveness for it had long since been bestowed.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,641
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Bulldookey.

1) Hebrews 8:12 KJV is merely quoting the OT promise that was fulfilled at the Cross.

2) When David prayed for forgiveness in Psalm 51, he was every bit as forgiven as Jesus said was the Unmerciful Servant; a thing Jesus said was so before the alleged dispensation of the "body of Christ", right or wrong?

3) As for the "blotting out" of Acts 3, the OT sanctuary service says when the Israelite came and offered his sacrifice, his sin was transferred to the blood of the lamb, allowing him to return to his tent fully forgiven. However, the record of sin was recorded within the sanctuary via the sprinkling of blood and covered by a "lambs skins dyed red" roof...even a blind man can see the symbolism. At the end of the ritual year, it was the record of sin which was blotted out: forgiveness for it had long since been bestowed.

you do understand their is a Old Covenant , made with God through Moses at Sinai, with the nation of Isreal , and only them,

then there is a New Covenant, with Christ as the Passover lamb, one sacrifice for all who would believe.

you get that, right?
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,522
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North Carolina
I appreciate your prayers and am well aware perfect obedience in thought, word, and practice cannot merit us even one foot off the ground when the saints rise to meet Jesus, as He plainly said in Luke 17:10 KLV:

So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

That should put to rest your concerns. Now, to those who are trusting in a false OSAS License to Sin, I pray that you all will abandon this heresy, get on your knees and pray for Christ to come in and live out His obedient life in you, get up and put on the Armor of God, and fight the good fight of faith instead of cowering as defeated slaves to sin in Satan's prisoner of war camp.

I will continue to pray for you and that you will abandon your belief in being able under your flawed human ability to maintain your obedience to the law instead of relying and trusting Jesus and His price to give, keep and seal you through His blood sacrifice. I will also pray that you see how judgmental you are towards those of us who believe and know we are saved by and through the Blood of Jesus and that we are "sealed" by the Holy Spirit. Praise God from whom all blessings flow.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,522
1,987
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North Carolina
1 Corinthians 12:27

Now you are Christ’s body, and individually members of it.

Romans 12:4-5

For just as we have many members in one body and all the members do not have the same function, so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.


The "Body of Christ" is not a concept. We saved members are all the "Body of Christ."
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
1,714
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Yes Paul was also accused of preaching a license to sin by the legalists .
By "legalists" you mean those who claimed the promises of God without meeting the conditions of those promises? Today, "legalists" of today are those who presumptuously claim forgiveness while in rebellion.
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
1,714
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Hebrews was written after the Cross.
Not sure why that is significant to this discussion.
Nothing in the book of Hebrews indicated that the New Covenant had already begun for the House of Israel
The NC was ratified (went into administrative effect) by the blood of Jesus, just as the OC was ratified with the blood of animals. There was no intermediate period between the two.
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
1,714
277
83
you do understand their is a Old Covenant , made with God through Moses at Sinai, with the nation of Isreal , and only them,

then there is a New Covenant, with Christ as the Passover lamb, one sacrifice for all who would believe.

you get that, right?
God never made a covenant with anyone but "Israel", which is the strongest evidence there is for the existence of "Spiritual Israel", because Abraham's descendants are now covenant members counted not by race, but by grace.

Shalom, my Spiritual Israelite sibling! :cool:
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
9,581
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LOL Jesus is "the same yesteday, today, and forever", even before the Cross. Remember His existence before the Cross?
His commands are not static in scripture, revelation is revealed over time, things change , The programme changes .. Before the cross he was still teaching to observe the sabbath, circumcision, abstaining from pork , only preach to Israel , He literally tells his disciples in the Gospels, only Preach to Jews / Israel. He literally says he was not sent but unto Israel . Did Jesus command to only preach to the Jews change ?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
9,581
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Remember OT directive "The just shall live by faith"? which was given to the church in the wilderness (and those who joined themselves to it) before the Cross, and is still applicable to us?
Could you quote that OT verse about the Just and how they live please.
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
1,714
277
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I will continue to pray for you and that you will abandon your belief in being able under your flawed human ability to maintain your obedience to the law instead of relying and trusting Jesus and His price to give, keep and seal you through His blood sacrifice. I will also pray that you see how judgmental you are towards those of us who believe and know we are saved by and through the Blood of Jesus and that we are "sealed" by the Holy Spirit. Praise God from whom all blessings flow.
ICUMI, I've already posted my belief in the futility of attempting to earn salvation and the excerpt below is taken from that earlier post here: https://christianchat.com/threads/not-by-works.146296/post-4528558
I appreciate your prayers and am well aware perfect obedience in thought, word, and practice cannot merit us even one foot off the ground when the saints rise to meet Jesus, as He plainly said in Luke 17:10 KLV:

"So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do." - Luke 17:10 KJV
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
1,714
277
83
His commands are not static in scripture, revelation is revealed over time, things change , The programme changes .. Before the cross he was still teaching to observe the sabbath, circumcision, abstaining from pork , only preach to Israel , He literally tells his disciples in the Gospels, only Preach to Jews / Israel. He literally says he was not sent but unto Israel . Did Jesus command to only preach to the Jews change ?
You keep getting bogged down in minutia and that's why you'll never come to spiritual enlightenment on this issue.

Salvation is the same in the OT as it is in the NT: trust God for both pardon and power to stop doing the things that made the Cross necessary in the first place. From Genesis to Revelationk you will find absolutely no deviation from this explicitly stated will of God.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
9,581
1,466
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You keep getting bogged down in minutia and that's why you'll never come to spiritual enlightenment on this issue.

Salvation is the same in the OT as it is in the NT: trust God for both pardon and power to stop doing the things that made the Cross necessary in the first place. From Genesis to Revelationk you will find absolutely no deviation from this explicitly stated will of God.
Could you quote that verse, the one you said how the Just lived in the OT please?