Not By Works

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gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,641
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I'm sure you sincerely do...just like Jehovah's Witnesses sincerely believe Christ being Michael the Archangel is nothing more than a created being, Catholics sincerely believe the Popes "hold upon this place (the throne of Peter in the Vatican) the place of God Almighty" and each is "Jesus Christ Himself, hidden under veil of flesh", Muslims sincerely believe blowing up infidels secures them 72 virgins.

and you believe one has to do good works and abstain from sin in order to prove salvation.

you believe God has a sliding scale as to how much sin disqualifies one from salvation, but it is mystery as to how much, or what kind,
and. most importantly, you think faith in Christ IS NOT ENOUGH FOR SALVATION.

so, your wrong beliefs go right on the list you just made.

trusting any of those, or yours, will land a soul in hell.

only faith and trust in Jesus Christ will , and nothing , nothing, nothing else saves souls.
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
1,714
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Did the command to Noah to build an Ark have a expiration date ?
The same CONCEPT is alive today: the Great Commission to go forth and warn the world of the coming destruction and of the only ecclesiastical Ark of Safety that was built with two timbers and three nails: salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone.
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
1,714
277
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Which verse says that it applies to all generations? Like this verse
5¶These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. I bet you don't apply this one ,you dispensationalism follower you .
God-imposed dispensation is not only acceptable, but sensible: This command of Jesus was necessary for the fulfillment of the 70 Weeks, the 490 year probationary period for the Jews to return home from Babylon and get their act together in telling the world about Jesus, lest "another nation" be raised up in their stead. Is not the church charged with doing the exact same thing Israel was told to do, but failed?

Again, nothin wrong with Biblical dispensation...but the fact that Darby was totally seduced by deceptive Jesuit eschatological diversionary tactics should be enough to frighten off any thinking person with a grain of spiritual discernment.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
9,581
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If Jesus commanded His people to take of the bread and cup after He commanded them to wash one another's feet as a sign of our humility in Him, His people ought to do so. The one is well known as "Communion" while the other is historically known as the "Ordinance of Humility".
He also commanded them in Matthew 10 to only preach to Israel. Why do you cherry pick his commands?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
9,581
1,466
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The same CONCEPT is alive today: the Great Commission to go forth and warn the world of the coming destruction and of the only ecclesiastical Ark of Safety that was built with two timbers and three nails: salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone.
No the command was not figurative , God commanded Noah to literally build a literal Ark out of literal Gopher wood . Literally.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
9,581
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I think you're confused about who's preaching fear...a surrendered relationship with God means peace with Him (Isaiah 27:5 KJV) and a delight to do His commandments (Psalms 40:8 KJV), while the hard way of the transgressor produces fear of consequences and the subsequent manufacture of a false OSAS License to Sin.

BTW, the crowd has never been right. In Noah's day, the crowd drowned. In Lot's day, the crowd burned up. In Jesus' day, the crowd shouted, "crucify Him, crucify Him." During the Dark Ages, the crowd killed 150 MILLION faithful Christians. And today, the crowd is still nailing Him to the Cross (Hebrews 6:6 KJV) through disobedience to His commandments.
I think you are confused about what brings peace to a lost person today.
Rom 5.1
1¶Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
This is the problem when you don't read past the OT . Remember that thing that happens in Mathew 27 ? Called the cross . Now read what 2cor 5.19 says . Your going in reverse before the cross under the law .
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
1,714
277
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and you believe one has to do good works and abstain from sin in order to prove salvation.
Do we say an apple tree "has to produce", or do we say it will "naturally produce"? And, what do we call an apple tree that no longer produces fruit? A DEAD tree.
you believe God has a sliding scale as to how much sin disqualifies one from salvation, but it is mystery as to how much, or what kind, and. most importantly,
Nope, I've said time and time again, the Just Man who falls down but allows Jesus to help him back is assured the mercy of God, while the Presumptuous Man who climbs down into the pit of sin, gets comfortable, slaps away the uplifting hand of God, and waves a OSAS License to Sin in His face has only a part in the Lake of Fire.
you think faith in Christ IS NOT ENOUGH FOR SALVATION. so, your wrong beliefs go right on the list you just made.
No, I believe faith which leads to repentance and surrender is correct faith, while your faith in a OSAS License to Sin is nothing more than the faith of trembling demons.
trusting any of those, or yours, will land a soul in hell. only faith and trust in Jesus Christ will , and nothing , nothing, nothing else saves souls.
It is vitally important for those who might be trusting in a OSAS License to Sin to cover their iniquity to realize that it is not those who both "keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12 KJV) who Jesus tells to "depart from Me", but those who claimed to know Jesus but were guilty of working iniquity.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,557
2,605
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It's enough to make one's head explode....James was only for Jews, Romans was only to Roman, Jesus had nothing to say to Christians...yes, Christ had nothing to say to the very ones whose very namesake means "Christ follower".
From what i've noticed it seems to be that every verse that includes some sort of WORK or DIFFICULTY or something like that, is usually to the "jews" or to "Those in the tribulation".

Surprise surprise, ive talked with these guys on the forum in the past and ive noticed they actually dont even believe the "Romans to Philemon is church doctrine" thing they say in their charts. Few of the things Paul says dont really fit their doctrines and ideas so they are obviously to the jews. DUH.

I also find it hilarious that these guys imagine that Christians just vanish today in a rapture, then all of a sudden everyone knows which parts of the New Testament to follow and which parts to ignore :rolleyes: Even though Jesus says in the great commission to teach all things He has taught them. But hey, who cares what Jesus said in the great commission? Thats to the jews anyway, isnt it? Even tho it says to go into all the nations, but its to all the jewish nations, right?? RIGHT?!?

Its comical, yet sad at the same time. You cant make this up man. You just cant.

Btw have you noticed how the easy believism crowd operates in the same way as the hyper-dispies? If you press them on something in the gospels some of them will go for the "OOH thats before the cross so yeah. not applicable here" but wont hesitate to quote John 3:16 and John 10:28 and say "SEE THERE, BIble said it I believe it AMEEEN brother AMEEEN!" (Even tho this is also before the cross)

Its one of them ones.
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
1,714
277
83
No the command was not figurative , God commanded Noah to literally build a literal Ark out of literal Gopher wood . Literally.
I tell you what: I'll abide in Christ and you abide in something else and we'll see who rises to meet Jesus in the air at the Second Coming and who rises a thousand years too late in the Resurrection of the Damned, OK?
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
1,714
277
83
I think you are confused about what brings peace to a lost person today.
Rom 5.1
1¶Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
This is the problem when you don't read past the OT . Remember that thing that happens in Mathew 27 ? Called the cross . Now read what 2cor 5.19 says . Your going in reverse before the cross under the law .
So, every single person living after the Cross is going to heaven. Got it.
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
1,714
277
83
From what i've noticed it seems to be that every verse that includes some sort of WORK or DIFFICULTY or something like that, is usually to the "jews" or to "Those in the tribulation".

Surprise surprise, ive talked with these guys on the forum in the past and ive noticed they actually dont even believe the "Romans to Philemon is church doctrine" thing they say in their charts. Few of the things Paul says dont really fit their doctrines and ideas so they are obviously to the jews. DUH.

I also find it hilarious that these guys imagine that Christians just vanish today in a rapture, then all of a sudden everyone knows which parts of the New Testament to follow and which parts to ignore :rolleyes: Even though Jesus says in the great commission to teach all things He has taught them. But hey, who cares what Jesus said in the great commission? Thats to the jews anyway, isnt it? Even tho it says to go into all the nations, but its to all the jewish nations, right?? RIGHT?!?

Its comical, yet sad at the same time. You cant make this up man. You just cant.

Btw have you noticed how the easy believism crowd operates in the same way as the hyper-dispies? If you press them on something in the gospels some of them will go for the "OOH thats before the cross so yeah. not applicable here" but wont hesitate to quote John 3:16 and John 10:28 and say "SEE THERE, BIble said it I believe it AMEEEN brother AMEEEN!" (Even tho this is also before the cross)

Its one of them ones.
They think they'll get up to heaven and hear Abraham say, "Oh, you one of those candypants "grace through faith" people...well, we OT folks had it tough...we had to work to get up here, Nancy, while you just glided in here on rollerskates."
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
1,714
277
83
I think you are confused about what brings peace to a lost person today.
Rom 5.1
1¶Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
This is the problem when you don't read past the OT . Remember that thing that happens in Mathew 27 ? Called the cross . Now read what 2cor 5.19 says . Your going in reverse before the cross under the law .
I think you're confused that the trembling faith of demons enables you to obtain by dead faith that which can only be obtained by living faith: eternal life.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
9,581
1,466
113
I tell you what: I'll abide in Christ and you abide in something else and we'll see who rises to meet Jesus in the air at the Second Coming and who rises a thousand years too late in the Resurrection of the Damned, OK?
lest any man should boast. Eph 2 .

Luke 18:9-14

King James Version



9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
9,581
1,466
113
I think you're confused that the trembling faith of demons enables you to obtain by dead faith that which can only be obtained by living faith: eternal life.
James 1
1¶James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
1,735
1,088
113
They think they'll get up to heaven and hear Abraham say, "Oh, you one of those candypants "grace through faith" people...well, we OT folks had it tough...we had to work to get up here, Nancy, while you just glided in here on rollerskates."
Old Testament saints were saved by grace through faith too. In the Old Testament, they were still waiting for the Messiah Jesus to come. I don’t think Old Testament saints necessarily understood everything about the Messiah and his coming but they did have faith in God. Abraham was justified by his faith in God.
 
Mar 14, 2011
73,443
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Old Testament saints were saved by grace through faith too. In the Old Testament, they were still waiting for the Messiah Jesus to come. I don’t think Old Testament saints necessarily understood everything about the Messiah and his coming but they did have faith in God. Abraham was justified by his faith in God.
Amen

Salvation has always been by Grace through faith.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
7,275
1,351
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They think they'll get up to heaven and hear Abraham say, "Oh, you one of those candypants "grace through faith" people...well, we OT folks had it tough...we had to work to get up here, Nancy, while you just glided in here on rollerskates."
Romans 4 has an example of what the OT saints would also say to us

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

That is the advantage we have in the Body of Christ, that they did not.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
7,275
1,351
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Old Testament saints were saved by grace through faith too. In the Old Testament, they were still waiting for the Messiah Jesus to come. I don’t think Old Testament saints necessarily understood everything about the Messiah and his coming but they did have faith in God. Abraham was justified by his faith in God.
Their faith had to be shown by a work of some kind, as Genesis 4:7 and Hebrews 11:4 showed with regards to Cain vs Abel.

Our faith does not need work (Romans 4:5)