Not By Works

[Kroogz]

I said the person claims to be saved.
Unbelievers won't make such a claim.

You will know them by their fruits.

Since the false prophet can outwardly act like a sheep.....Feed the poor, claim salvation, claim Jesus, help the widow, give, be nice, ACT like us. Then it is the inward that we need to be watchful and careful of. DOCTRINE.

If their DOCTRINE keeps the unbelievers in death and condemnation and keeps the believer in death and condemnation.......We will know them by their fruits.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

They had faith and they were saved.

they were saved being hearers and not doers. and never having 1 work?

You sure?

how can a dead (lifeless) faith save someone?

 

[lrs68]

No he did not

James told people to inspect their own faith

He told them if they claimn to have faith, but has no work, can your faith save you

the answer is no. because they never had faith

James 2:22 states that Abraham's faith was demonstrated by his actions, and his faith was made complete by his obedience.

 

[lrs68]

may people claim to be saved by are not saved. many may even have works? what about them

If the works are led by God they will produce good fruit. If you don't see that you will know.

 

[lrs68]

lrs68 said:
Doing the works God leads us to do like feeling we should help someone or suddenly get a specific number thought to how much money we should give doesn't mean anyone is perfect. It means a person is truly converted and serving God and He is able to use them as a way for Him to help others.

When I am led by God to help it's not actually me doing it even though it looks like it is me. It's God doing it but He's able to do it through me or those truly saved. But none of that makes a person perfect. It makes them applicable to do God's Will.
Sorry for my finger getting out of hand.

Your description of our Father in Heaven using us is great. It is after we have been uded as instruments we realize a miracle has occurred. He does all of the work, while we simply avail ourselves to Him as tools. When the usage is complete the tool is just as amazed as the recipient.

Amen!

 

[lrs68]

No one can say who is truly saved other than Jesus.
If a believer can only put food on their table based on what they have and do not feed a hungry person can you assume they are not saved?

They are able to give a Testimony and that costs nothing but the desire to share Jesus to other people.

 

[lrs68]

You will know them by their fruits.

Since the false prophet can outwardly act like a sheep.....Feed the poor, claim salvation, claim Jesus, help the widow, give, be nice, ACT like us. Then it is the inward that we need to be watchful and careful of. DOCTRINE.

If their DOCTRINE keeps the unbelievers in death and condemnation and keeps the believer in death and condemnation.......We will know them by their fruits.

If the works are led by God they will produce good fruit. If you don't see that you will know.

 

[HeIsHere]

No one can say who is truly saved other than Jesus.
If a believer can only put food on their table based on what they have and do not feed a hungry person can you assume they are not saved?

Why is this even an topic?

I think it sad when those who agree salvation is 100 % percent secure......... then turn around and defend their doctrine by saying....

"oh they were never really saved .. or we can be fruit inspectors and decide who is saved."

Just let scripture stand, it is plenty clear saved is saved, justified is justified, apart from deeds.

Good works coupled with the accurate Gospel is to promote the Kingdom not for personal fruit inspection.
People who do not grow in the faith, harm themselves and the witness of the Kingdom but they are still saved.

If they have placed their faith in the work of Christ Jesus for salvation then they are saved. Done.

 

[HeIsHere]

They are able to give a Testimony and that costs nothing but the desire to share Jesus to other people.

And if they do not they are still saved.

 

[lrs68]

And if they do not they are still saved.

Why would someone who claims to be saved not want to give their Testimony?

 

[HeIsHere]

they were saved being hearers and not doers. and never having 1 work?

You sure?

how can a dead (lifeless) faith save someone?

The words of James are not addressing "saving faith" but what the result of that faith should look like to the world.
It should go onto "do" but God does not force/compulse the believer to live outwardly their inward regeneration.

But they are still believers, people who have been justified.

 

[HeIsHere]

Why would someone who claims to be saved not want to give their Testimony?

We all can assume to have courage in the land of supposed free speech.

 

[lrs68]

We all can assume to have courage in the land of supposed free speech.

Didn't it take courage to say they are saved?
How much more is needed after that to share their Testimony?

 

[BillG]

They are able to give a Testimony and that costs nothing but the desire to share Jesus to other people.

Testimony verbally does not mean one is a genuine believer.

Being like Jesus is testimony.
Doing is what matters.

 

[PaulThomson]

It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

English Standard Version
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
He saved us, not by works in righteousness that we did, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

We all agree that our initial salvation is achieved independently of any works we have done up to that point.

All your citations use the past tense: He saved us. So it is talking about a past event, our initial salvation, not a present event. Do you have any verses that say anything like "He is saving us regardless of any works being done in wickedness... "?

Or anything like, "He will be saving us in the first resurrection regardless of any works of wickedness we did or are doing ... "?

 

[lrs68]

Testimony verbally does not mean one is a genuine believer.

Being like Jesus is testimony.
Doing is what matters.

You said they didn't have finances to give so I said they could provide a Testimony. Now you are talking about doing something. They can take people somewhere or help them in other ways but you are talking in circles.

 

[BillG]

Didn't it take courage to say they are saved?
How much more is needed after that to share their Testimony?

Doing takes more courage than saying.
When people see that’s more powerful than talk.0

 

[BillG]

You said they didn't have finances to give so I said they could provide a Testimony. Now you are talking about doing something. They can take people somewhere or help them in other ways but you are talking in circles.

You originally said if they don’t do this or that then you can assume they are not saved. You assume on the carnal.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

For we are saved by hope: Rom 8:24

Hope begins with believing and ends with hearing.

but hope that is seen is not hope: Rom 8:24

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Son of God.

for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

and they that hear shall live. John 5:25

 

[lrs68]

Doing takes more courage than saying.
When people see that’s more powerful than talk.0

Read my original post.
I already said people who claimed to be saved and doing works.
A lot of your questions I already answered.