Not By Works

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MadebyHim

Senior Member
Dec 17, 2016
572
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Depends on where heart is in the work, if its glorifying God or self.
 
Mar 7, 2016
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Salvation is not a prize to be won....it is a GIFT at the moment of belief..........
Oh if only.. but lets just say your right.

I believe that your the son of God you would say i am a son of god but not the son of God right..

Ok next scripture he that enduerth to the end will be saved,,, now in this sence saved means salvation.. (meaning you are allready saved but with a twist your polished jewel like status (hasnr been polished yet..).

Now in this sence would you say the word saved here in this context means salvation.

He that believe him will be saved too ,,,,,,,right

Ok now would you say saved means salvation here to,,,, yes right...

Now for the last sence what happens to those who dont believe to the end but where once saved,,,(are you going to tell me they where never saved in the first place like et ?.....................

Now in this sence would you say saved had a diffrent meaning here.. it not confusing mate is it..

Its the truth that gives you something to hope for.. why do want to take that hope away ? with the word done deal..

Its not a game of poker its not where you win the stake and then you dont have to work anymore because your rich..

Do you know this scripture the farmer who grew seven more crops to retire in his early age,,, give up works ? did the lord show favor to this,,, i mean given up works...

And please just answer ans see the good in works for me just once..never mind what works dont do... please enlighten me with what they do do and not like what urine does thankyou..
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,115
14,770
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Oh if only.. but lets just say your right.

I believe that your the son of God you would say i am a son of god but not the son of God right..

Ok next scripture he that enduerth to the end will be saved,,, now in this sence saved means salvation.. (meaning you are allready saved but with a twist your polished jewel like status (hasnr been polished yet..).

Now in this sence would you say the word saved here in this context means salvation.

He that believe him will be saved too ,,,,,,,right

Ok now would you say saved means salvation here to,,,, yes right...

Now for the last sence what happens to those who dont believe to the end but where once saved,,,(are you going to tell me they where never saved in the first place like et ?.....................

Now in this sence would you say saved had a diffrent meaning here.. it not confusing mate is it..

Its the truth that gives you something to hope for.. why do want to take that hope away ? with the word done deal..

Its not a game of poker its not where you win the stake and then you dont have to work anymore because your rich..

Do you know this scripture the farmer who grew seven more crops to retire in his early age,,, give up works ? did the lord show favor to this,,, i mean given up works...

And please just answer ans see the good in works for me just once..never mind what works dont do... please enlighten me with what they do do and not like what urine does thankyou..
The context of the bolded is not soul salvation....it speaks of physical preservation.....so....when until you can acknowledge context and verbiage in correct order.....there is no need trying to engage you on some of these posts.....!
 
Mar 7, 2016
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ok well i wont bother anymore engaging with you if thats how you feel,,,but this just looks like an lazy works attitude to me..

anyways i was just wondering since you call me bro and no longer wish to engage with me,,, could you post just one good verse about works for me.. please.
Or as your heart truly hardened..

ANd atalas you see a diffrence but the diffrence you see is one thats justifies your doctrin.

anyways just carry on corrupting thousands your ok ill turn a blind eye for you..
 
Feb 24, 2015
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anyways i was just wondering
I remember realising one bone shattering reality. I am alone in my head.
I can imagine others are with me, but I only see a small part of anyones life, most
of it is just done on trust.

So in the cross and Christs words I have full assurance. He made it very plain.

Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Matt 7:24

Now when you grow up in a family riven with mental illness, and life and emotional
problems, these promises are probably all you have got. Now in my weakness I have
a real strength. I need Christ and His love, it is all I really have. Now when you come
from this place and He literally builds who you are and where you have come from,
it is impossible to deny it, or turn it around and spit on it.

Yet what I am hearing in Jesus's name is this level of arrogance and sin.
The people I have met who have attacked me is on such a level that is anti-Christ,
not even closely righteous or true. It is appalling. It makes me want to weep and
ask the Lord to forgive and burn like a bright light on the desert of emptiness.

I know what it is to love a baby and see it grow into an adult, with all the stresses
and strains, and to still feel what it was like to be a kid.

Unless repentance comes and seeing true righteousness and love burst forth,
this people will be decimated. Once we shine the light and speak the truth the
choices begin to be made, and where peoples heart lie is shown.

What is represented here is not that different from out in the church world,
so the true battle and points are being played out, and people are starting to
walk either with the Lord or away. And his divide is eternal, with no compromises.
 
Mar 7, 2016
4,678
24
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I remember realising one bone shattering reality. I am alone in my head.
I can imagine others are with me, but I only see a small part of anyones life, most
of it is just done on trust.

So in the cross and Christs words I have full assurance. He made it very plain.

Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Matt 7:24

Now when you grow up in a family riven with mental illness, and life and emotional
problems, these promises are probably all you have got. Now in my weakness I have
a real strength. I need Christ and His love, it is all I really have. Now when you come
from this place and He literally builds who you are and where you have come from,
it is impossible to deny it, or turn it around and spit on it.

Yet what I am hearing in Jesus's name is this level of arrogance and sin.
The people I have met who have attacked me is on such a level that is anti-Christ,
not even closely righteous or true. It is appalling. It makes me want to weep and
ask the Lord to forgive and burn like a bright light on the desert of emptiness.

I know what it is to love a baby and see it grow into an adult, with all the stresses
and strains, and to still feel what it was like to be a kid.

Unless repentance comes and seeing true righteousness and love burst forth,
this people will be decimated. Once we shine the light and speak the truth the
choices begin to be made, and where peoples heart lie is shown.

What is represented here is not that different from out in the church world,
so the true battle and points are being played out, and people are starting to
walk either with the Lord or away. And his divide is eternal, with no compromises.
mate im sure you have the fruit of when to be tough and when not to be... attack is something that happens on the field,,, its what where all made of..
I use to love singing attack on the field of football..

Now mate sometimes you have to test the spirits to see what there made of...and see how they rise to the accasion,,

Like just say im your boss and every week you are doing well because of good leads in good areas.. only many others are not doing so well...

Would you be ok with me putting you in the bad areas for the next 2 months ? would you graft and drive forward charge less to get the sale work harder etc,,,,,,

You might if youve grown in field of genorosity... you might not if youve grown in the field of greed..you might just be a greedy cheeseburger elvis presley... i dont know you mate.

I have got to know something about you and you do walk and fall just like me... its all part of growing...its not an attack its a reality..

we have to test by attack (not all of the time) and we have to correct with love.. we also have to forgive and move on you could attack me tomorrow ill be ready for it...:)
 
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dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,115
14,770
113
ok well i wont bother anymore engaging with you if thats how you feel,,,but this just looks like an lazy works attitude to me..

anyways i was just wondering since you call me bro and no longer wish to engage with me,,, could you post just one good verse about works for me.. please.
Or as your heart truly hardened..

ANd atalas you see a diffrence but the diffrence you see is one thats justifies your doctrin.

anyways just carry on corrupting thousands your ok ill turn a blind eye for you..

James said our faith is seen by MEN based upon our works......

Faith without works is like a corpse being alone........

but lest we forget....

Not by WORKS of righteousness which we HAVE done, but according to his MERCY HAS HE SAVED US<---PAST TENSE ALREADY POSSESSED SALVATION ;)
 
Mar 7, 2016
4,678
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James said our faith is seen by MEN based upon our works......

Faith without works is like a corpse being alone........

but lest we forget....

Not by WORKS of righteousness which we HAVE done, but according to his MERCY HAS HE SAVED US<---PAST TENSE ALREADY POSSESSED SALVATION ;)
Ok past tense once saved..
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,115
14,770
113
Ok past tense once saved..

There is nothing but once saved.....for those who say they can lose it Hebrews states it is impossible to get back if it could be lost....maybe one day you will acknowledge the truth and come on line with the truth....
 
Mar 7, 2016
4,678
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There is nothing but once saved.....for those who say they can lose it Hebrews states it is impossible to get back if it could be lost....maybe one day you will acknowledge the truth and come on line with the truth....
I dont believe you can lose salvation... i think you can ose your faith,,,, (this is a big diffrence)..

I think once youve become the finished article,,,,, the polished jewel is salvation and not befor.as other wise my faith would be worthless and i would no longer live in hope...

Thats me and where i stand i believe we can be saved until that day if we keep the faith,,, but i certainly dont think one can lose salvation...over and out searg :)

And i believe it is a works to keep tyhe faith :)
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
3,045
591
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There is nothing but once saved.....for those who say they can lose it Hebrews states it is impossible to get back if it could be lost....maybe one day you will acknowledge the truth and come on line with the truth....
[h=1]So many believers believe in the childrens message of salvation and faith but do not realize God doesn't want you to stay in that child-like faith but wants you to move on to maturity. Maybe its because people feel safe in believing their child-like faith. I dont know the reason but its time to truly examine what it means to follow Christ.

Hebrews 6
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[/h][h=3]Warning against Regression[/h][FONT=&quot]6 Therefore, leaving the elementary message about the Messiah, let us go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, faith in God,[/FONT]


[h=1]Hebrews 6:4-8Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[/h][FONT=&quot]4 For it is impossible to renew to repentance those who were once enlightened, who tasted the heavenly gift, became companions with the Holy Spirit, 5 tasted God’s good word and the powers of the coming age, 6 and who have fallen away, because,[a] to their own harm, they are recrucifying the Son of God and holding Him up to contempt. 7 For ground that has drunk the rain that has often fallen on it and that produces vegetation useful to those it is cultivated for receives a blessing from God. 8 But if it produces thorns and thistles, it is worthless and about to be cursed, and will be burned at the end.

This is why regression in our faith is very dangerous because it could lead to a complete falling away from God. How far do we have to regress to fall away completely? Only God knows but it is still a good warning to all believers to strengthen their faith every day and in true repentance get right with God every day to be able to grow and make sure you are producing the good fruit of the Lord. This is why we are taught about the fruit of the spirit that a believer is
suppose to find in themselves. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[h=1]Hebrews 12:16-17Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[/h][FONT=&quot]16 And make sure that there isn’t any immoral or irreverent person like Esau, who sold his birthright in exchange for one meal. 17 For you know that later, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected because he didn’t find any opportunity for repentance, though he sought it with tears.

True repentance is necessary but in many cases, a once enlightened believer falls away is in his/her mind freely choosing to go back and live
by the world. They know what they are denying. And God says once they have chosen that path its impossible to go back. For someone to deny the truth after knowing it and believed it to go back and live by the world, who could talk them out of that knowing the truth already.

[/FONT]

[h=1]Hebrews 12:14Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[/h][h=3]Warning against Rejecting God’s Grace[/h][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14 Pursue peace with everyone, and holiness—without it no one will see the Lord.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Obviously, if we do not spread the gospel this is another way people won't see the Lord.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]


[/FONT]

[h=1]Matthew 12:31-33Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[/h][FONT=&quot]31 Because of this, I tell you, people will be forgiven every sin and blasphemy, but the blasphemy against[a] the Spirit will not be forgiven.[b]32 Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him. But whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the one to come.[/FONT]
[h=3]A Tree and Its Fruit[/h][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]33 “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad[c]and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The so-called unforgiven sin!

[/FONT]

[h=1]Hebrews 10:26-39Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[/h][h=3]Warning against Deliberate Sin[/h][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]26 For if we deliberately sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire about to consume the adversaries.


Repent from deliberate sin or it could lead you to a falling away from your faith.

[/FONT]

[h=1]Acts 3:19-20English Standard Version (ESV)[/h][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19 Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out,20 that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus,

[/FONT]

[h=1]Hebrews 10:36-38Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[/h][FONT=&quot]36 For you need endurance, so that after you have done God’s will, you may receive what was promised.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]37 For yet in a very little while,
the Coming One will come and not delay.
38 But My righteous one[a] will live by faith;
and if he draws back,
I have no pleasure in him.[b]
[/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
2,533
486
83
Good works is good but it is not good enough to earn salvation.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
3,045
591
113
Luke 9:23English Standard Version (ESV)

Take Up Your Cross and Follow Jesus
23 And he said to all, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
2,533
486
83
When one thinks he can lose his faith. That’s shrinking faith!

When one thinks he would no longer live in hope, this is not of faith. That’s certainly a worthless faith!

Keeping the faith or is it is the faith keeps you.

I don’t believe in works to keep the faith but I believe that faith keep the works. Faith really works!

God bless
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,093
3,015
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One more time.

No one is saved by works but at the same time, faith without works is no faith at all.

If you have learned of Jesus Christ you all know basic sorks is believing Jesus Christ is sent by the Father and believing Him
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
3,045
591
113
Everyone can agree we are not saved by works but what people can agree on is it took works to have faith. Another thing people can't agree on is can salvation be lost once gained as many believe once saved always saved. That's what most of these arguments boil down to. Scripture denies the once saved always saved theology but who believes in this thinks once we are saved we become puppets and no longer make choices of our own to follow God daily.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Everyone can agree we are not saved by works but what people can agree on is it took works to have faith. Another thing people can't agree on is can salvation be lost once gained as many believe once saved always saved. That's what most of these arguments boil down to. Scripture denies the once saved always saved theology but who believes in this thinks once we are saved we become puppets and no longer make choices of our own to follow God daily.
Some contributors here are fixated on failure and perfection.
To them we are called to alone walk perfectly from day one.

The problem is simply legalism. What is perfection and what is sin?
To them the law is merely a means of defining or pointing our total failure,
rather than the framework of loving relationships.

So their salvation is a legalistic court where Christ takes away all judgement
without any need for personal life change. In fact if you link life change to
the taking away of judgement you are evil, taking away in unbelief from Christs
work.

So everything one writes is put into this formula. It is very addictive but it only
appeals to legalists who do not build good relationships, with emotional flows between
people.

Jesus is the ultimate expression of love, of care, of reaching out beyond power, domination
authority, ownership, getting back at people, knowing where we stand.

So perfection is the relationship and communion with God through the Holy Spirit.
The law points out when this has gone wrong, but it does not define the how or
why. If you have a child, and you see them in distress, you take time to work out
what is the cause of this distress, and where it might lead. But it is founded on
the communication between the child and the parent. It follows rules but these
are relationship ones that have developed over time.

This is too subtle for legalists, who find it hard to reach out to others and share at
a deep level of understanding and identification. As time goes on I get a deeper
appreciation of both their reasons for behaving as they do and their failure to see
God and Christ in reality. They are still legalists without the struggle, but with the
condemnation because of the failure and defeat to which they have no answer.
 
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Nov 22, 2015
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Does salvation which is only found in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection - does this salvation depend on you? - or on what Christ has already done?

Get this wrong and we create a religion of self-righteousness/holiness that actually denies the very work of Christ.

We are safe in the Lord and don't let anyone try to rob you of what our loving Savior did for us in His grace and love. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit when we believed after hearing the message of Christ. Eph. 1:13


Jesus Himself said that the Holy Spirit will be with us and in us forever. John 14:16 Jesus is not a liar and let's not treat Him like He is. We can trust in Him in all that He has done for us.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,038
2,906
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Does salvation which is only found in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection - does this salvation depend on you? - or on what Christ has already done?

Get this wrong and we create a religion of self-righteousness/holiness that actually denies the very work of Christ.

We are safe in the Lord and don't let anyone try to rob you of what our loving Savior did for us in His grace and love. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit when we believed after hearing the message of Christ. Eph. 1:13


Jesus Himself said that the Holy Spirit will be with us and in us forever. John 14:16 Jesus is not a liar and let's not treat Him like He is. We can trust in Him in all that He has done for us.
exactly. eyes off self, eyes on God, thanking him constantly for sending His Son to save us.