Not By Works

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Feb 24, 2015
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Get this wrong and we create a religion of self-righteousness/holiness that actually denies the very work of Christ.
This is where everything falls apart.
If you do not know Christ loves you in your heart and are afraid
and carry hurts against the world, everything is distorted, and
the very salvation in Christ through speaking to your heart becomes
an accusation that this is denying the work of Christ.

So continually this opposition is posted here, but is heresy and a distortion
of love and life, because they do not know how to establish a relationship
and communion with God.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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Does salvation which is only found in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection - does this salvation depend on you? - or on what Christ has already done?

Get this wrong and we create a religion of self-righteousness/holiness that actually denies the very work of Christ.

We are safe in the Lord and don't let anyone try to rob you of what our loving Savior did for us in His grace and love. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit when we believed after hearing the message of Christ. Eph. 1:13


Jesus Himself said that the Holy Spirit will be with us and in us forever. John 14:16 Jesus is not a liar and let's not treat Him like He is. We can trust in Him in all that He has done for us.
The Spirit may never leave us but we can ignore the Spirit.

Matthew 26:41New International Version (NIV)

41 “Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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I see the same Scriptures posted to defend once saved always saved but they never want to acknowledge the scriptures I have posted and many others
 
Nov 22, 2015
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The Spirit may never leave us but we can ignore the Spirit.

Matthew 26:41New International Version (NIV)

41 “Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
I agree...We can grieve the Holy Spirit as well by our behavior towards others by not speaking wholesome words of grace.

Ephesians 4:29-31 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear.

[SUP]30 [/SUP] Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

[SUP]31 [/SUP] Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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This is why in Hebrews he warns us how dangerous it can be to ignore the Spirit and where it could lead.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Feb 24, 2015
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Relationships

I have realised that legalists are weak at emotions, the heart and relationships.
I had a friend who easily got hurt. And when they did they always wanted
revenge. It was this tit for tat and lack of forgiveness that marked their handling
of others.

Now this insecurity is replaced by rules that define what will or will not happen.
So rather than face the core issue which is lack of love and trust they become
more and more rules orientated, which does not resolve anything but increases
their insecurity.

So release is found when they junk the rule book, or in effect become lawless.
Only problem is the condemnation and insecurity is still their along with all
the hurts and fears. But now they have a comfort blanket they are accepted
as they are, and their behaviour changes nothing.

But this is just deception, because nothing has been dealt with, just they are
told there are no consequences to their behaviour, isnt that fantastic.

And because nothing has actually changed inside, they are still bad at relationships
and still plagued with insecurity which is why OSAS becomes so important to them.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Context is important - real emotional heart context

There is a reason why the context is important, because if Christ has never
truly met you, and you have not opened up completely to Him, then nothing
in the Kingdom will work, or be real.

All the words, doctrine, study will mean nothing.
It is why Paul always talked about Christs love. It is not a subject, one among
others, it is everything. Now I am saying this not to be superior or condescending,
but to point out there is a door you can open and ask the Lord in.

And it is this door that is eternal and matters above anything else.
Just be open and speak to Him from this place, this place of need and emptiness,
this place of hurt, and isolation, this place of desire and vulnerability. It is where
I speak to the Lord from and He lives with me there.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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OT/ the law of Moses prohibits (Deut 5:7-21)

NT/ the law of Christ encourages to do good works thru “FAITH THAT WORKETH IN LOVE”(gal 5:6)


yes, according to the work of Christ’s faith, the anointing Holy Spirit of God we therefore can hear God and believe him to the salvation of our soul as he gives us His faith to make it possible to believe Him.

That work of faith according to Christ's three day labor of love is not of our own selves lest and men boast. So it’s the faith of God that works to both will and do the good pleasure of Christ who works in us.

Can’t separate works of God from the faith of God, that is an impossibility. It will come up dead every time and give the illusion that Christ’s faith can be separate from His works that provide the grace needed for us to have eternal life.

We are saved by Christ’s work of faith according to His labor of love.

One of the problems from my experience is that many do not think God needs faith or has it.

It is the only way it can be truly worked out as imputed not of us therefore...James being in perfect harmony with Ephesians. No difference, connect the right person in regard to faith and the right kind of work is revealed..

Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Who is accredited to those works?

So works are required it just that the faith needed to work them out is not of us.

Seest thou how (Christ’s) faith wrought (worked) with his (Christ’s) works, and by (Christ’s) works was (Christ’s) faith (belief)made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God,(as God gave Abraham His faith) and it (Christ’s work of faith) was imputed unto him (Abraham) for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Jam 2:22

If we would replace the faith of Christ with the faith of Abraham then Abraham was saved by his own faith (work )coming from the imagination of his heart. (The fallen human faith)

That would be Blaspheming the Holy name by which we are called. That could never work out. Reconciling Ephesian and James would be impossible if we would accredit the perfect(complete) faith to a sinful human.Abraham)


Seest thou how(Abraham’s) faith wrought with his(Abraham’s) works, and by (Abraham’s) works was (Abraham’s)faith made perfect?And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it (believing God)was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Jam 2:22
 
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Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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There is a whole thread on Hebrews which may help you and others if they want to see what Hebrews is actually really talking about as there are different views being shown in the thread. To take a scripture out of it's context is not wise.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/138679-hebrews-6-4-6-not-seems.html

Oh no what's unwise is to believe in one's theology without questioning what they believe to be true or not. If you take all scripture it points to what we been saying. Once saved always saved has probably put a lot of people in hell. It's not hard to understand God required action to follow up belief. We have a lot of believers but oh so few followers. Why else would Jesus say the road to destruction is wide and the road to life is narrow and not many will find it.

There is a lot deeper meaning to what Christ defines as followers
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Oh no what's unwise is to believe in one's theology without questioning what they believe to be true or not. If you take all scripture it points to what we been saying. Once saved always saved has probably put a lot of people in hell. It's not hard to understand God required action to follow up belief. We have a lot of believers but oh so few followers. Why else would Jesus say the road to destruction is wide and the road to life is narrow and not many will find it.

There is a lot deeper meaning to what Christ defines as followers
There is not one scripture that says once a believer is in Christ joined as one spirit with them forever as Jesus says the Holy Spirit is in and with us forever - that they become outside of Christ. This is an anti-Christ belief system.

There are many warnings and we should be taking heed to them for those that walk according to the flesh and not the Spirit and how that will bring destruction to our lives here on this earth. Take up shooting heroin in your arms and the truth of that will be readily apparent.

The false anti-Christ belief that believers become "un-joined to Christ" is the worst doctrine spawned in the mind of man from our enemy which has ship-wrecked many believers lives.

The narrow road is through Christ alone and what He has done in His finished work on the cross and resurrection not from what we do or don't do by our own will-power or ability. That's eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

The ones that are in disobedience to God are the ones not believing in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection. True faith will always have corresponding actions but the actions do not make faith.

We live by grace through faith in Christ's work alone. We walk the same way we receive Him. The true Christian life is all about receiving the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness which only comes by grace through faith in what Christ ahs already done.

Colossians 2:6-8 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,

[SUP]7 [/SUP] having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.

[SUP]8 [/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.




 
Mar 14, 2011
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Oh no what's unwise is to believe in one's theology without questioning what they believe to be true or not. If you take all scripture it points to what we been saying. Once saved always saved has probably put a lot of people in hell. It's not hard to understand God required action to follow up belief. We have a lot of believers but oh so few followers. Why else would Jesus say the road to destruction is wide and the road to life is narrow and not many will find it.

There is a lot deeper meaning to what Christ defines as followers
Maybe you should take your own advice?

do we rely on God or men?
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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Maybe you should take your own advice?

do we rely on God or men?
Oh buddy I have. I have studied over and over using multiple bible translations, multiple different commentaries, Greek to English translations, I have talked to far more educated people than me using yalls same verses and combining them with ours. I have been praying for guidance and have found myself some nights losing sleep to my study. Many things in one of my study Bible's written by Baptist was just completely ignored. Why would they do this? Probably because it didn't back their once saved always saved theology. So I got another study bible that actually taught on the scriptures we post.

I have questioned what I believe and now 100% with confidence own my belief and I will do all I can to make sure people do fall astray believing this once saved always saved false doctrine. Even if you don't except all of it but still promote once you say I believe then your saved forever. The only way that would work is if you was dying and did not have any time left to live out your love for Christ. If you believe in once saved always saved you have believed in false teaching.

Just because people grow in age doesn't mean they have believed correctly for all them years. We may had been lied to or even imprinted it from our childhood.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Oh buddy I have. I have studied over and over using multiple bible translations, multiple different commentaries, Greek to English translations, I have talked to far more educated people than me using yalls same verses and combining them with ours. I have been praying for guidance and have found myself some nights losing sleep to my study. Many things in one of my study Bible's written by Baptist was just completely ignored. Why would they do this? Probably because it didn't back their once saved always saved theology. So I got another study bible that actually taught on the scriptures we post.

I have questioned what I believe and now 100% with confidence own my belief and I will do all I can to make sure people do fall astray believing this once saved always saved false doctrine. Even if you don't except all of it but still promote once you say I believe then your saved forever. The only way that would work is if you was dying and did not have any time left to live out your love for Christ. If you believe in once saved always saved you have believed in false teaching.

Just because people grow in age doesn't mean they have believed correctly for all them years. We may had been lied to or even imprinted it from our childhood.
You still need to study..

You need to put your faith in Christ, and not what you think keeps you saved,,
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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The Spirit may never leave us but we can ignore the Spirit.

Matthew 26:41New International Version (NIV)

41 “Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
We can also grieve the spirit as well........by our actions...
 
Mar 2, 2016
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My son grieved me the other day. He is still my son...I still love him....he still has unfettered access to my throne room. Lol
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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but whether we ignore the spirit. or grieve him, we are still sealed, until the day of redemption to the praise of God.
obviously unto the day of redemption..........forever....eternally...............everlasting
 
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Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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