Not By Works

[royalscot]

Justified by Faith
15 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners;16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.Galatians 2

 

[Ariel82]

Church traditions have their place in a Christians life. They aren't evil or bad. Like anything in the world people can worship them instead of God. When folks make idols that is when it's bad.

The snake staff used to heal was eventually made into an idol...molech I believe it was called, will have to research.

Sabbath day keeping is a man made tradition and fairly recently created to imitate holiness but has not merit to incrreasing godliness.

 

[royalscot]

42 And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead.43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."Acts 10

 

[LoveGodForever]

Church traditions have their place in a Christians life. They aren't evil or bad. Like anything in the world people can worship them instead of God. When folks make idols that is when it's bad.

The snake staff used to heal was eventually made into an idol...molech I believe it was called, will have to research.

Sabbath day keeping is a man made tradition and fairly recently created to imitate holiness but has not merit to incrreasing godliness.

"But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?" (Matt 15:3)

"This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." (Matt 15:8-9)

 

[Ariel82]

"But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?" (Matt 15:3)

"This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." (Matt 15:8-9)

Exactly and it also says let no one judge you in New moon feast and Sabbath keeping.

If you don't know how Jesus fulfills the OT laws, feast, etc, then you will misapply many scriptures.

Jesus is the Manna from heaven and our Sabbath rest.

 

[royalscot]

Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham.8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed."9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.Galatians 3:

 

[LoveGodForever]

Exactly and it also says let no one judge you in New moon feast and Sabbath keeping.
If you don't know how Jesus fulfills the OT laws, feast, etc, then you will misapply many scriptures.
Jesus is the Manna from heaven and our Sabbath rest.

Hmm seems someone does not know their Bible

 

[Grace777x70]

All I am doing is asking for scripture that says the Holy Spirit convicts "believers" of sin. There aren't any. It's a church tradition.

I don't fight against the fact that they Holy Spirit convicts the 'world" of sin. Jesus said so Himself that it was His job to do that - because they don't believe in Him.

I could say that Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation but you would think someone would ask for scriptures to prove it. ( I would hope so anyways )

The scriptures actually say that it is the conscience of man that convicts them of things too as in when Jesus said to them "Ho who is without sin - let him throw the first stone" at the woman caught in adultery.

John 8:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

In the New Covenant - the truth of the gospel is awesome and wonderful. The ways of God are so much higher than our ways.

The Holy Spirit witnesses to the fact that our sins and lawless deeds - He remembers no more.

Hebrews 10:14-18 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

[SUP]15 [/SUP] Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

[SUP]16 [/SUP] This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

[SUP]17 [/SUP] And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

[SUP]18 [/SUP] Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.



The Christian who understands the gospel that Jesus has taken away the sins of the world and that there remains no more sacrifice for sins - he will have his conscious purged of sins and have no more consciousness of sins.

The Holy Spirit will continue to witness to us that we are the righteousness of God in Christ. - that we are a new creation - created in righteousness and holiness. Eph. 4:24

Just before Heb. 10:14-18 - the writer talks about having our consciousness purged from sins.

Hebrews 10:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near.

[SUP]2 [/SUP] Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins?

Now as we walk by the spirit - we will have a good conscience. ( the Greek word for conscience means - "to know some thing against" )

A good conscience is one that knows what Christ has done in His finished work and agrees that His blood cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7

This below is what Paul's goal was in his teachings.

1 Timothy 1:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.


Does all this truth want to make us run out and sin all the time? Of course not. A thousand times no! It makes us fall in love with the wonderful awesome work of our Lord Jesus Christ to save us so that we could be joined as one spirit with Him forever.

His righteousness which is in us will manifest itself in "deeds of righteousness" as His life is manifested in and through us.

This truth makes us fall on our knees and raise our hands in thanksgiving at the awesomeness of our Lord and Father!

I realize that this is against some of our church traditions and some of us will have a modern day evangelical anaphylactic type reaction but we need to boldly proclaim the Lord's work and the gospel message is that "our sins are forgiven" as seen in Acts 10 and Acts 13 when Peter and Paul preached the true gospel. We have word-for-word accounts and they differ alot from our modern way of things.

To some of us - this truth will bring life and to walk in freedom from the sins that have tried to deceive us all our life.

 

[royalscot]

it seem you cannot prove you point with your rant , with no bible proof. it easy to imply with no proof, ever wonder why you have no proof , all you have is opinionated rants with scripture.

all in, acts 2 were jewish converts, not gentile converts.


, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean.29 So when I was sent for, I came without objection. I ask then why you sent for me."Acts 10

 

[Ariel82]

Our sins are forgiven and God's holy spirit still chastens His children and teachings us how to overcome.

 

[royalscot]

proof, proof, proof, context context context, has already been given.

you need scripture to back up, your opinion.


since you have give nothing in response or answered anything that was quoted at you. then it your problem .

Galatians 5: Christ Has Set Us Free
1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.

 

[Ariel82]

What is worst than finding a worm in your apple after taking your first bite?


......


Finding half a worm.

 

[Grace777x70]

Yes and I gave you one in Hebrews 12 but you chose to ignore it. Its your choice but the word "chasten" is the same Greek word translated as "convict" or "rebuke" in other passages.

Your attack against the Church is duly noted.

Sorry Ariel but Hebrews 12 does NOT say that the Holy Spirit convicts the "believer" of sins. The Holy Spirit does the complete opposite as Hebrews 10 shows. He witnesses to us that He remembers our sins no more.

The discipline of the Lord is a wonderful thing - it proves we are children of the Lord. Discipline is "child-training" He is doing this constantly with us by His word to us.

I am not attacking the church Ariel - don't start with the deceitfulness and bearing false witness. I said "traditions" - not the church itself. It is the body of Christ.

I am asking for scriptures that "prove " the Holy Spirit convicts the "believer " of sins. There are none.

 

[royalscot]

seems no proof can only rant , and your just proved it.

 

[Grace777x70]

From gotquestions.org

The Bible tells us that the Holy Spirit will convict the world of sin (John 16:8). To help us understand what the conviction of sin is, we can look at what it is not. First, it is not simply a guilty conscience or even shame over sin. Such feelings are naturally experienced by almost everyone. But this is not true conviction of sin.

Second, conviction of sin is not a sense of trepidation or a foreboding of divine punishment. These feelings, too, are commonly experienced in the hearts and minds of sinners. But, again, true conviction of sin is something different.

Third, conviction of sin is not merely knowledge of right and wrong; it is not an assent to Scripture’s teaching about sin. Many people read the Bible and are fully aware that the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). They may know that “no immoral, impure or greedy person . . . has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God” (Ephesians 5:5). They may even agree that “the wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God” (Psalm 9:17). Yet, for all their knowledge, they continue to live in sin. They understand the consequences, but they’re far from being convicted of their sins.

The truth is, if we experience nothing more than a pang of conscience, anxiety at the thought of judgment, or an academic awareness of hell, then we have never truly known the conviction of sin. So, what is real conviction, the kind the Bible speaks of?

The word convict is a translation of the Greek word elencho, which means “to convince someone of the truth; to reprove; to accuse, refute, or cross-examine a witness.” The Holy Spirit acts as a prosecuting attorney who exposes evil, reproves evildoers, and convinces people that they need a Savior.

To be convicted is to feel the sheer loathsomeness of sin. This happens when we’ve seen God’s beauty, His purity and holiness, and when we recognize that sin cannot dwell with Him (Psalm 5:4). When Isaiah stood in the presence of God, he was immediately overwhelmed by his own sinfulness: “Woe to me! . . . I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips . . . and my eyes have seen the King, the LORD Almighty” (Isaiah 6:5).

To be convicted is to experience an utter dreadfulness of sin. Our attitude toward sin becomes that of Joseph who fled temptation, crying out, “How could I do this great evil and sin against God?” (Genesis 39:9).

We are convicted when we become mindful of how much our sin dishonors God. When David was convicted by the Holy Spirit, he cried out, “Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight” (Psalm 51:4). David saw his sin primarily as an affront to a holy God.

We are convicted when we become intensely aware of the wrath it exposes to our souls (Romans 1:18; Romans 2:5). When the Philippian jailer fell at the apostles’ feet and cried, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” he was under conviction (Acts 16:30). He was certain that, without a Savior, he would die.

When the Holy Spirit convicts people of their sin, He represents the righteous judgment of God (Hebrews 4:12). There is no appeal of this verdict. The Holy Spirit not only convicts people of sin, but He also brings them to repentance (Acts 17:30; Luke 13:5). The Holy Spirit brings to light our relationship to God. The convicting power of the Holy Spirit opens our eyes to our sin and opens our hearts to receive His grace (Ephesians 2:8).

We praise the Lord for the conviction of sin. Without it, there could be no salvation. No one is saved apart from the Spirit’s convicting and regenerating work in the heart. The Bible teaches that all people are by nature rebels against God and hostile to Jesus Christ. They are “dead in trespasses and sins” (Ephesians 2:1). Jesus said, “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him” (John 6:44). Part of that “draw” to Jesus is the conviction of sin.

Yep..that is a great summary of some of our church traditions - none of it shows any scripture that says the Holy Spirit convicts the "believer" of sins.

The Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin - because they believe not in the Lord Jesus Christ. John 16:8-9

 

[Ariel82]

Romans 6
12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. 13Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

15What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves,c you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, 18and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. 19I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.

 

[royalscot]

Our sins are forgiven and God's holy spirit still chastens His children and teachings us how to overcome.

but sin is not counted where there is no law.

 

[royalscot]

Romans 6
12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. 13Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

15What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves,c you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, 18and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. 19I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.

but sin is not counted where there is no law.

that was in chapter 5

2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.Romans 8: Life in the Spirit


4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from graceGalatians 5: Christ Has Set Us Free

 

[Ariel82]

16Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves,c you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?

****

If the Holy spirit doesn't convict you, then I doubt my words will make much difference,

 

[Grace777x70]

Romans 6
12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. 13Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

15What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves,c you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, 18and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. 19I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.

Wonderful scriptures but again none of them say that they Holy Spirit convicts "believers" who are in Christ of sins. Jesus said the complete opposite - He said that when He comes - He will convict "us" - believers of righteousness because He went to the Father.


Pay attention to the world ( unbelievers ) and "you" ( believers - remember Jesus was talking to His disciples at the time. )

Remember to always look at who is being spoken to when looking at scripture.

John 16:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And He, when He comes, will convict the world ( unbelievers ) concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] concerning sin, because they ( unbelievers ) do not believe in Me;

[SUP]10 [/SUP] and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you ( believers ) no longer see Me;



Anyway - that is all I am going to say on this subject for now but I will say that knowing the truth of the Lord's removal of our sins releases His life in us to live out of His righteousness that is in us in our new creation that is in Christ.

We will start to live from a pure, good conscious and walk in the freedom that is ours in Christ and live holier lives that bring glory to our Lord and Father as He is manifested in and through us to a hurt and dying world that needs to see His grace and love for them.

If all this offends you - just let it go and ask the Lord about it. He will be faithful to all of us and He will be caught in the act of "being Himself" to all of us. He loves us dearly and has done great things for us!

Understanding the new creation in Christ and all that He has already done is crucial to growing up in Him. We have a great salvation in Him.

I'm off to bed. Good night everyone!