Not By Works

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PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#17,841
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#17,841
FranC said:
Hi PJ

I can't go back and read everything.
I don't know what Grace said.

Are YOU saying that the Holy Spirit does NOT convict of sin?

One of the jobs of the Holy Spirit is to convict of sin.
Maybe I've misunderstood...
Click to expand...
I am not saying the Lord does not address sin.
Prophets are sent to literally speak repent or face judgement.

No, the simple discussion is where are the verses that say God convicts of sin as part
of His ministry.

My point is Gods actual presence brings conviction on people.
Isaiah beheld God and the throne and immediately felt undone.

What impressed me about Jesus is His words convict. They set a standard which is very
different from our own. It convicts so much some find it impossible to read.
They then regard this conviction as something evil, condemnation.

For them the sermon on the mount becomes for legalists and Jews to be convicted of
sin and failure.

But the whole point is, the testimony of the conviction demonstrates how God convicts,
through His word. It is why the distorted theology is created which says the words are
not for believers or else conviction would not occur. It is for those under the law.

One member said they could not understand how one could rejoice at the sermon on the
mount.

So g7's challenge was find verses showing the Holy Spirit convicts of sin.

Now in this context I saw how absurd such a question was. If one has to ask the
question about verses they have missed meeting God.

Listen to Paul

If all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all, the secrets of his heart are disclosed, and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you.
1 Cor 14:24-25

Where God is there is conviction.
 
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royalscot

royalscot

Banned
#17,842
Jan 27, 2013
4,769
18
0
#17,842
FranC said:
Friend,

I know Jesus.

I have no loss, but only gain.

You might want to conisder ceasing your statement that THERE IS NO LAW.
You might have meant something different, but it sure does sound like the above for someone just reading along.

Good day.
Click to expand...
then you better take it up, with what has already been posted,
you make a statement without looking at any proof , and when asked to look at that proof, you make an other statement with no proof to back up your point. you can read and then ask acts 15, to explain to you, about the no law.
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#17,843
Apr 22, 2013
13,575
9,093
113
#17,843
Desertsrose said:


From gotquestions.org

The Bible tells us that the Holy Spirit will convict the world of sin (John 16:8). To help us understand what the conviction of sin is, we can look at what it is not. First, it is not simply a guilty conscience or even shame over sin. Such feelings are naturally experienced by almost everyone. But this is not true conviction of sin.

Second, conviction of sin is not a sense of trepidation or a foreboding of divine punishment. These feelings, too, are commonly experienced in the hearts and minds of sinners. But, again, true conviction of sin is something different.

Third, conviction of sin is not merely knowledge of right and wrong; it is not an assent to Scripture’s teaching about sin. Many people read the Bible and are fully aware that the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). They may know that “no immoral, impure or greedy person . . . has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God” (Ephesians 5:5). They may even agree that “the wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God” (Psalm 9:17). Yet, for all their knowledge, they continue to live in sin. They understand the consequences, but they’re far from being convicted of their sins.

The truth is, if we experience nothing more than a pang of conscience, anxiety at the thought of judgment, or an academic awareness of hell, then we have never truly known the conviction of sin. So, what is real conviction, the kind the Bible speaks of?

The word convict is a translation of the Greek word elencho, which means “to convince someone of the truth; to reprove; to accuse, refute, or cross-examine a witness.” The Holy Spirit acts as a prosecuting attorney who exposes evil, reproves evildoers, and convinces people that they need a Savior.

To be convicted is to feel the sheer loathsomeness of sin. This happens when we’ve seen God’s beauty, His purity and holiness, and when we recognize that sin cannot dwell with Him (Psalm 5:4). When Isaiah stood in the presence of God, he was immediately overwhelmed by his own sinfulness: “Woe to me! . . . I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips . . . and my eyes have seen the King, the LORD Almighty” (Isaiah 6:5).

To be convicted is to experience an utter dreadfulness of sin. Our attitude toward sin becomes that of Joseph who fled temptation, crying out, “How could I do this great evil and sin against God?” (Genesis 39:9).

We are convicted when we become mindful of how much our sin dishonors God. When David was convicted by the Holy Spirit, he cried out, “Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight” (Psalm 51:4). David saw his sin primarily as an affront to a holy God.

We are convicted when we become intensely aware of the wrath it exposes to our souls (Romans 1:18; Romans 2:5). When the Philippian jailer fell at the apostles’ feet and cried, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” he was under conviction (Acts 16:30). He was certain that, without a Savior, he would die.

When the Holy Spirit convicts people of their sin, He represents the righteous judgment of God (Hebrews 4:12). There is no appeal of this verdict. The Holy Spirit not only convicts people of sin, but He also brings them to repentance (Acts 17:30; Luke 13:5). The Holy Spirit brings to light our relationship to God. The convicting power of the Holy Spirit opens our eyes to our sin and opens our hearts to receive His grace (Ephesians 2:8).

We praise the Lord for the conviction of sin. Without it, there could be no salvation. No one is saved apart from the Spirit’s convicting and regenerating work in the heart. The Bible teaches that all people are by nature rebels against God and hostile to Jesus Christ. They are “dead in trespasses and sins” (Ephesians 2:1). Jesus said, “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him” (John 6:44). Part of that “draw” to Jesus is the conviction of sin.
Click to expand...
Agree with all of this. Very well explained. But it mostly addresses BRINGING people to Christ and having a new heart, and new creation put in them. What then?

In some sense, whether the Holy Spirit "convicts" the saved believer or not is a bit of a symantical question.

The Lord certainly allows the enemy leeway in "buffeting" us for various reasons. Here is such an example:

[h=1]2 Corinthians 12:7-10New King James Version (NKJV)[/h][h=3]The Thorn in the Flesh[/h][FONT=&quot]7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. 8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. 9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

However, if the "conviction" manifests itself in the form of a fear of loss of salvation, in NO WAY is this from the Lord.

You may discipline your kids, but you are never going to let them believe they aren't your kids anymore.[/FONT]
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#17,844
#17,844
When does God "convict believers of their righteousness in Christ"?

When they fall short of His glory and sin....thus God is convicting them of their sins and showing them a better way.

It sounds like semantics and an attempt to draw people out of the church by attacking "church traditions". What are they being drawn into? A new cultish group with its own language that tells them they aren't convicted of sins?
 
royalscot

royalscot

Banned
#17,845
Jan 27, 2013
4,769
18
0
#17,845
PeterJens said:
I am not saying the Lord does not address sin.
Prophets are sent to literally speak repent or face judgement.

No, the simple discussion is where are the verses that say God convicts of sin as part
of His ministry.

My point is Gods actual presence brings conviction on people.
Isaiah beheld God and the throne and immediately felt undone.

What impressed me about Jesus is His words convict. They set a standard which is very
different from our own. It convicts so much some find it impossible to read.
They then regard this conviction as something evil, condemnation.

For them the sermon on the mount becomes for legalists and Jews to be convicted of
sin and failure.

But the whole point is, the testimony of the conviction demonstrates how God convicts,
through His word. It is why the distorted theology is created which says the words are
not for believers or else conviction would not occur. It is for those under the law.

One member said they could not understand how one could rejoice at the sermon on the
mount.

So g7's challenge was find verses showing the Holy Spirit convicts of sin.

Now in this context I saw how absurd such a question was. If one has to ask the
question about verses they have missed meeting God.

Listen to Paul

If all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all, the secrets of his heart are disclosed, and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you.
1 Cor 14:24-25

Where God is there is conviction.
Click to expand...
with no proof ,then it absurd to give a response as you only echo your own blindness.
then prove that you can follow the law of mosses without a temple of stone, so you can take an animal to that temple for forgiveness.


when did john the baptist , tell you to take an animal to the temple, if you were jewish.
(if opinion has no facts to present its logic. why dose it speak, as if the logic will be heard. )


it is absurd that you cannot give a bible account of you statement, and prove that statement with context from the bible, yet are on a christian bible topic forum.
 
royalscot

royalscot

Banned
#17,846
Jan 27, 2013
4,769
18
0
#17,846
PennEd said:
Agree with all of this. Very well explained. But it mostly addresses BRINGING people to Christ and having a new heart, and new creation put in them. What then?

In some sense, whether the Holy Spirit "convicts" the saved believer or not is a bit of a symantical question.

The Lord certainly allows the enemy leeway in "buffeting" us for various reasons. Here is such an example:

2 Corinthians 12:7-10New King James Version (NKJV)

The Thorn in the Flesh

7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. 8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. 9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

However, if the "conviction" manifests itself in the form of a fear of loss of salvation, in NO WAY is this from the Lord.

You may discipline your kids, but you are never going to let them believe they aren't your kids anymore.
Click to expand...
can you give scripture to ware in the bible ,the gentile was told to repent.

and what law were they to repent from.
 
blue_ladybug

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
#17,847
Feb 21, 2014
70,920
9,669
113
#17,847
I'd like to make an announcement. :)

All glory to God, today is my 7 year anniversary of being cancer-free. :eek:

a93545a5e2de90e59e2cca4f8b631a42.jpg
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#17,850
#17,850
Sin = falling short of the glory of God.

Another way to say it is

Sin = walking in the flesh and not by the spirit

Or if that definition doesn't make sense to you

Sin = not living the fullness of abiding in Christ and lusting after the world instead

*****

What Sin is NOT = not following man made laws and traditions, not keeping the Jewish old covenant laws like the Sabbath or dietary restriections
 
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Ruth

Ruth

Member
#17,852
May 14, 2016
99
5
0
#17,852
blue_ladybug congratulations and may God continue to bless your life!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#17,855
#17,855
Yet once again we have a huge argument in CC based on someone's interpretation of a word or verse, when will it eve stop?

in John 16, we are told when the HS comes he will convict (Greek expose, to bring to light,) the world (Kosmos system, ruled by Satan, something a child was f God no longer belongs to) of sin (singular, not plural) he is basically saying

1. The HS will expose to a non believer that they have sinned and fall short of Gods glory
2. He will expose the fact that Gods righteousness is the righteousness we must have (see christs example)
3. He will expose the fact the ruler of this world, their boss and leader, is judged, and the will be judged with him.

the reason he will do this is as a helper, to prepair them to hear the message of then gospel when the church goes into the world to spread it. (If I do not depart, the helper will not come)

how can we relate this to a believer, and say the HS convicts a believer of sin? In this context you can not, the believer is not of the world, the believers sin has already been exposed and they agree (repent) with it, and they are no longer judged.

The exposing of sin is to prepare them to hear the gospel, it is NOT exposing every sin issue or every sin (plural) but the fact they had sinned, and fall short of Gods righteousness, thus headed to judgement)
 
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A

Ariel82

Guest
#17,857
#17,857
Not talking about John 16 but Hebrew 12 and the fact that God convicts/chastens people of their sins and teaches them righteousness and how to live godly lives.

To call that "convicting people of their righteousness found in Christ" is misleading.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#17,858
#17,858
Ariel82 said:
Not talking about John 16 but Hebrew 12 and the fact that God convicts/chastens people of their sins and teaches them righteousness and how to live godly lives.

To call that "convicting people of their righteousness found in Christ" is misleading.
Click to expand...
it still does not make sense, why does he HS need to expose a child of Gods sin, they already know it is sin, he does not have to expose that, he has to expose their heart attitude (the attitude that wants to serve self not others)

And and I do not know about you, but when Satan tries to expose my sin, (he does it all the time, especially past sins I did awhile ago) I need to be reminded of my righteousness in Christ, or I would be taken down and destroyed,
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#17,860
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#17,860
royalscot said:
with no proof ,then it absurd to give a response as you only echo your own blindness.
then prove that you can follow the law of mosses without a temple of stone, so you can take an animal to that temple for forgiveness.

when did john the baptist , tell you to take an animal to the temple, if you were jewish.
(if opinion has no facts to present its logic. why dose it speak, as if the logic will be heard. )

it is absurd that you cannot give a bible account of you statement, and prove that statement with context from the bible, yet are on a christian bible topic forum.
Click to expand...
royalscot - If you look through scripture, when God speaks to people they
are convicted.

Adam, hide from Gods presence.
Cain, the blood spoke to God from the ground and Cain knew his guilt.
Moses, when the people have sinned, Moses falls before the Lord pleading for mercy.
Elijah, the fire falls from heaven and the people are so convicted they execute all the
priests of Baal.
Jonah preaches to Nineveh, and it repents.
John the Baptist preaches and people are baptised.
Paul shares about the sin in Corinth, and they repent and get themselves right with God.
Peter preaches to people at Pentcost, they are struck to the heart and come to faith.

So my friend, it is your blindness that is apparent that you cannot go through a simple
list of situations.

Gods judgement on Israel on losing faith that they could take Canaan, they tried to make
things right and were defeated in battle.

The problem with conviction, it is always about do you know the sin you are in?
 
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