Not By Works

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Feb 18, 2017
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1 Thessalonians 5:19English Standard Version (ESV)

19 Do not quench the Spirit.

The Spirit may never be put out but we can starve it by our own free will.
Find your right pastor teacher. And stop regurgitating what you have heard.

Quenching the Spirit is EXACTLY what you are doing. Working from the "good" of your flesh, and quenching the GOOD of the Spirit.

The Holy Spirit NEVER operates outside of John 5:24. He inspired it.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
2,989
533
113
Hi,

Are you saying that once saved, one can deliberately sin all they want even knowing it is all wrong?
Umm...Is this not an extreme cry against those who believe in OSAS? Do you know someone in
here (OSAS Believers) believes that?

Great! we need to exercise our daily faith to keep it strong but isn't this matter belongs to the saved?

Thanks
No my friend, I have been saying the complete opposite. What you highlighted was me poking fun at others beliefs on here making a clear picture on how much it doesn't make since.

People on here are pushing the once saved always saved theology but wont admit it.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
2,989
533
113
Find your right pastor teacher. And stop regurgitating what you have heard.

Quenching the Spirit is EXACTLY what you are doing. Working from the "good" of your flesh, and quenching the GOOD of the Spirit.

The Holy Spirit NEVER operates outside of John 5:24. He inspired it.

I have my right Pastor-teacher we meet every Thursday for one on one Bible study.

What you have failed to realize is I am one of those people who question everything and search for truth until I find what God guides me to.


I have spoken to other Pastors so your comments only make me laugh. My spirit is far from being quenched in fact its so active in me I am in constant addiction to God. He is on my mind all day every day.


I gave other peoples comments a chance a few weeks ago and did not stop until I had the truth.


Once saved always saved is completely false.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
2,515
473
83
And that's the mercy he gives to the damned because our God is a merciful God.. I believe he cries over every soul damned to hell.

Salvation is eternal to all of the true followers of Christ.

Y'all should be read the book Not a Fan if you have not already.
Hi,

How can we determine who are the true followers Christ? Is following or believing Christ the way to eternal salvation?

Thanks
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
2,515
473
83
No my friend, I have been saying the complete opposite. What you highlighted was me poking fun at others beliefs on here making a clear picture on how much it doesn't make since.

People on here are pushing the once saved always saved theology but wont admit it.
okay...we moved on
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
2,515
473
83
I have my right Pastor-teacher we meet every Thursday for one on one Bible study.

What you have failed to realize is I am one of those people who question everything and search for truth until I find what God guides me to.


I have spoken to other Pastors so your comments only make me laugh. My spirit is far from being quenched in fact its so active in me I am in constant addiction to God. He is on my mind all day every day.


I gave other peoples comments a chance a few weeks ago and did not stop until I had the truth.


Once saved always saved is completely false.
Hi,

The post isn't directed on me but may I know your reasons why OSAS is false?

Thanks
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
2,989
533
113
1 John 1:6-7

6 If we say, “We have fellowship with Him,” yet we walk in darkness, we are lying and are not practicing[a] the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He Himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

1 John 2

3 This is how we are sure that we have come to know Him: by keeping His commands. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” yet doesn't keep His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But whoever keeps His word, truly in him the love of God is perfected.[a] This is how we know we are in Him: 6 The one who says he remains in Him should walk just as He walked.

15 Do not love the world or the things that belong to[c] the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in him. 16 For everything that belongs to[d] the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride in one’s lifestyle—is not from the Father, but is from the world. 17 And the world with its lust is passing away, but the one who does God’s will remains forever.


24 What you have heard from the beginning must remain in you. If what you have heard from the beginning remains in you, then you will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is the promise that He Himself made to us: eternal life. 26 I have written these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you.
27 The anointing you received from Him remains in you, and you don’t need anyone to teach you. Instead, His anointing teaches you about all things and is true and is not a lie; just as He has taught you, remain in Him.


1 John 3:3-9New King James Version (NKJV)

3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
Sin and the Child of God

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in
Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this
purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin,
because he has been born of God.

He that abides in Christ, continues not in the practice of sin. Renouncing sin is the great proof of spiritual union with, continuance in, and saving knowledge of the Lord Christ.

Because I know some once saved always saved people love this scripture.
John 3:9-
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin - This passage must either mean that they who are born of God, that is, who are true Christians, do not sin habitually and characteristically, or that everyone who is a true Christian is absolutely perfect, and never commits any sin. If it can be used as referring to the doctrine of absolute perfection at all, it proves, not that Christians may be perfect, or that a "portion" of them are, but that all are. But who can maintain this? Who can believe that John meant to affirm this? Nothing can be clearer than that the passage has not this meaning, and that John did not teach a doctrine so contrary to the current strain of the Scriptures, and to fact; and if he did not teach this, then in this whole passage he refers to those who are habitually and characteristically righteous. (Notes on the Bible by Albert Barnes [1834])


Through out the gospels we have Jesus warning us to stay ready and active not knowing the day or the hour he may return, We have Paul, Author of Hebrews, James (brother of Jesus), Peter, John, and Jude all warning us to not be lead astray by false teachings (Peter), to persevere to the end so that his labor may not be in vain(Paul), to build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit(Jude). You see that faith was active together with his works (cooperation), and by works, faith was perfected.(James)

We are not saved by our own doing but with God who first sought us out and the cooperation with what we chose to do with the message of truth, the Holy Spirit that began to live in us gives us the faith and we are freely given the gift of grace we cannot obtain from our own doing but we can deny God's gift to us. This is why
its
of our own action to every day take up our cross and deny ourselves daily to become slaves for Christ. (Luke 9:23) To become habitually and characteristically righteous as we grow to be more like Christ.

 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
2,989
533
113
Hi,

How can we determine who are the true followers Christ? Is following or believing Christ the way to eternal salvation?

Thanks
We must first believe but as long as we have life ahead of us we need to study the kind of follower Jesus wanted. His followers gave up everything and eventually most of them died. How may so called believers are willing to go this far for Jesus? We have churchs full of people that are like the rich young ruler and want to know what they must do to be saved but are not willing to give everything Jesus asks of his true followers. Finances, time, hobbies, less football and more prayer, less going out to eat and buying a homeless man a meal. Obedience is key. Obedience to serve food at the homeless shelter all the way up to the extreme to leave your home on a missionary trip to some hostile country. What ever Jesus calls us to do we must be obedient in faith and go. A true follower will be in love for Christ more than his/her own family and even their life. We are taught how to love our wives and kids but above all Christ must come first.

Obviously we dont start this way but this is what Jesus is shaping his followers to become. Slaves for Christ. We have signs that show us proof if the spirit is living in us and signs of the fruit we produce.
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
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Hi,
The post isn't directed on me but may I know your reasons why OSAS is false?
Thanks
OSAS relies on the idea of a debt which Christ has met.

The believer once created from on high can never die or be rejected.
All their sin is forgiven and God only sees Christ, so nothing ever needs resolving as far
as God in concerned.

But then there would be no rebukes of believers in the bible, or sin needing to be repented
of, or a risk of people falling away.

Our walk is dependent on our relationship with the Father through Christ and the Holy Spirit.
From the time it starts it is the heavenly Kingdom relationship.

It can though be left and rejected because its very foundation is love itself which by definition
only exists as a result of choice.

OSAS also only exists to appease very insecure people who do not understand relationships.
Like a marriage it needs communication and sharing. Without this the relationship dies.

So rather than teach people about how to grow and be alive in Christ, love and openness
it encourages staying as you are, and keeping closed down. Now for a preacher this is
a much easier route than facing issue they literally cannot handle. So for many preachers
a quick fix doctrine meets the keep the congregation happy and involved and feeling safe.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,017
2,858
113
OSAS relies on the idea of a debt which Christ has met.

The believer once created from on high can never die or be rejected.
All their sin is forgiven and God only sees Christ, so nothing ever needs resolving as far
as God in concerned.

But then there would be no rebukes of believers in the bible, or sin needing to be repented
of, or a risk of people falling away.

Our walk is dependent on our relationship with the Father through Christ and the Holy Spirit.
From the time it starts it is the heavenly Kingdom relationship.

It can though be left and rejected because its very foundation is love itself which by definition
only exists as a result of choice.

OSAS also only exists to appease very insecure people who do not understand relationships.
Like a marriage it needs communication and sharing. Without this the relationship dies.

So rather than teach people about how to grow and be alive in Christ, love and openness
it encourages staying as you are, and keeping closed down. Now for a preacher this is
a much easier route than facing issue they literally cannot handle. So for many preachers
a quick fix doctrine meets the keep the congregation happy and involved and feeling safe.
more works-based legalism nonsense. don't some people ever get tired of lecturing on how " pure, clean and holy " ( hahaha) they are? guess not

if anyone wants to see BIBLICAL truth, please see Romans 4 and Titus 3, and pretty much the whole letter of Galatians .

pay no attention to the above post.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Christ will enlighten who he enlightens. For who don't understand is not a flaw on them but takes God to open the minds to be able to except the whole food of God.

Do you rely on Christ to make you a paycheck? Or do you rely on Christ to physically move you to help the poor?

Or are you moved to action by a feeling of self sufficiency and care for the needy. Once you are moved with these thoughts and feelings do you by force act on them 100% of the time?
1. I rely on God to save me, Because nothing I could ever do will make up for the sins I have already committed, let alone will commit in the future (the penalty of sin is death)

2. As for my sanctification, I rely on God to grow me, Because every time I try to do it myself. The end result is not very good..
 
Nov 23, 2016
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So rather than teach people about how to grow and be alive in Christ, love and openness,
it encourages staying as you are, and keeping closed down. Now for a preacher this is
a much easier route than facing issues they literally cannot handle. So for many preachers
a quick fix doctrine meets the keep the congregation happy and involved and feeling safe.
Words like these make me wonder what kind of church you were attending Peter ?
 
Mar 14, 2011
63,935
10,294
113
1 Thessalonians 5:19English Standard Version (ESV)

19 Do not quench the Spirit.

The Spirit may never be put out but we can starve it by our own free will.

It still will never leave us And his seal will still be active until the day of redemption.

Ephesians 4:30
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
 
Mar 14, 2011
63,935
10,294
113
No my friend, I have been saying the complete opposite. What you highlighted was me poking fun at others beliefs on here making a clear picture on how much it doesn't make since.

People on here are pushing the once saved always saved theology but wont admit it.
I am pushing eternal life.. I would hope we all would.. Because it is in Christ we HAVE eternal life.
 
Mar 14, 2011
63,935
10,294
113
I have my right Pastor-teacher we meet every Thursday for one on one Bible study.

What you have failed to realize is I am one of those people who question everything and search for truth until I find what God guides me to.


I have spoken to other Pastors so your comments only make me laugh. My spirit is far from being quenched in fact its so active in me I am in constant addiction to God. He is on my mind all day every day.


I gave other peoples comments a chance a few weeks ago and did not stop until I had the truth.


Once saved always saved is completely false.
And I thought you said you were not trying to earn your salvation.

Seems you told a lie.

If eternal security is false. If we do not HAVE eternal lifem Then God lied. St John is a liar, And we must earn our salvation..

good luck with that.
 
Mar 14, 2011
63,935
10,294
113
1 John 1:6-7

6 If we say, “We have fellowship with Him,” yet we walk in darkness, we are lying and are not practicing[a] the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He Himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

1 John 2

3 This is how we are sure that we have come to know Him: by keeping His commands. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” yet doesn't keep His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But whoever keeps His word, truly in him the love of God is perfected.[a] This is how we know we are in Him: 6 The one who says he remains in Him should walk just as He walked.

15 Do not love the world or the things that belong to[c] the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in him. 16 For everything that belongs to[d] the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride in one’s lifestyle—is not from the Father, but is from the world. 17 And the world with its lust is passing away, but the one who does God’s will remains forever.


24 What you have heard from the beginning must remain in you. If what you have heard from the beginning remains in you, then you will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is the promise that He Himself made to us: eternal life. 26 I have written these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you.
27 The anointing you received from Him remains in you, and you don’t need anyone to teach you. Instead, His anointing teaches you about all things and is true and is not a lie; just as He has taught you, remain in Him.


1 John 3:3-9New King James Version (NKJV)

3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
Sin and the Child of God

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in
Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this
purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin,
because he has been born of God.

He that abides in Christ, continues not in the practice of sin. Renouncing sin is the great proof of spiritual union with, continuance in, and saving knowledge of the Lord Christ.

Because I know some once saved always saved people love this scripture.
John 3:9-
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin - This passage must either mean that they who are born of God, that is, who are true Christians, do not sin habitually and characteristically, or that everyone who is a true Christian is absolutely perfect, and never commits any sin. If it can be used as referring to the doctrine of absolute perfection at all, it proves, not that Christians may be perfect, or that a "portion" of them are, but that all are. But who can maintain this? Who can believe that John meant to affirm this? Nothing can be clearer than that the passage has not this meaning, and that John did not teach a doctrine so contrary to the current strain of the Scriptures, and to fact; and if he did not teach this, then in this whole passage he refers to those who are habitually and characteristically righteous. (Notes on the Bible by Albert Barnes [1834])


Through out the gospels we have Jesus warning us to stay ready and active not knowing the day or the hour he may return, We have Paul, Author of Hebrews, James (brother of Jesus), Peter, John, and Jude all warning us to not be lead astray by false teachings (Peter), to persevere to the end so that his labor may not be in vain(Paul), to build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit(Jude). You see that faith was active together with his works (cooperation), and by works, faith was perfected.(James)

We are not saved by our own doing but with God who first sought us out and the cooperation with what we chose to do with the message of truth, the Holy Spirit that began to live in us gives us the faith and we are freely given the gift of grace we cannot obtain from our own doing but we can deny God's gift to us. This is why
its
of our own action to every day take up our cross and deny ourselves daily to become slaves for Christ. (Luke 9:23) To become habitually and characteristically righteous as we grow to be more like Christ.


Legalism at its finest.

We do not save ourselves. We cooperate.

That my friend, Is saving yourself..

If the cross is not enough.. Then we have no hope..
 
Feb 24, 2015
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A fearful answer from gb9.

What is gb9's accusation

1. What they are saying makes no sense
2. The foundation of the idea is evil
3. The people who say this are evil

Now talk about a full frontal assault on someone.

What they are really saying is if you do not believe OSAS you are not saved.
So obviously all critics are evil, and any theology that shows it is false is evil.

All I can say is if this is how weak ones foundation in Christ is, God help you.
I would counsel read the bible and let the Holy Spirit speak to you. Get serious
with God and He will get serious with you. So Praise the Lord to highlight such
a need at a time like this.
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
Words like these make me wonder what kind of church you were attending Peter ?
I go to a charismatic baptist church. We are an outreaching dynamic fellowship into
church planting and ministry with people across the society and needs spectrum.
 
Mar 14, 2011
63,935
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113
OSAS relies on the idea of a debt which Christ has met.

If Christ did not meat our debt, we are lost in sin, and will spend eternity in hell.


This is what Christ did to our debt.

Colossians 2:14
having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

It is called redemption.. Maybe you should look that term up. TO redeem means to pay the debt another person owns, to free them.


The believer once created from on high can never die or be rejected.
All their sin is forgiven and God only sees Christ, so nothing ever needs resolving as far
as God in concerned.

hmm, John 6. Believe in me you will never die, Live forever, never hunger or thirst, Have eternal life etc etc.

I guess Gods word means nothing to you?



But then there would be no rebukes of believers in the bible, or sin needing to be repented
of, or a risk of people falling away

Our walk is dependent on our relationship with the Father through Christ and the Holy Spirit.
From the time it starts it is the heavenly Kingdom relationship.

It can though be left and rejected because its very foundation is love itself which by definition
only exists as a result of choice.

OSAS also only exists to appease very insecure people who do not understand relationships.
Like a marriage it needs communication and sharing. Without this the relationship dies.

So rather than teach people about how to grow and be alive in Christ, love and openness
it encourages staying as you are, and keeping closed down. Now for a preacher this is
a much easier route than facing issue they literally cannot handle. So for many preachers
a quick fix doctrine meets the keep the congregation happy and involved and feeling safe.
but remember, Peter does not teach a gospel of works, He said so (SMH)