not of works, but created in Christ unto good works

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Dec 27, 2018
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Yes, I believe I understood you correctly, and that is why I was trying to correct you.
I believe your understanding of what faith is, is incorrect.
You are speaking in general terms, where I'm am speaking of specific works.
Yours has no power of God in operation, but speak in terms of general good works that will follow the person after they receive Christ as their lord and savior.
They will for example, start reading their bible, praying, going to church, and getting involved in church activities, and the like.
From what I see, and the way I understand it, the above statement is your understanding of what, good works following one's salvation, is.
If that is what you are saying, then I say you have it wrong.
Yes, a saved person generally does good things and becomes a good or better person after they receive Christ, but that is not what James is talking about concerning faith with works.
Where is there weakness in all that?
The heathen can and do do the same. Which is why I mentioned the deceitful guy.
All these things we can do without God's intervention.
God's power is not needed for us to do most of those things.
Yes, God causes a change within us, but that is not what faith is or how it works.
The way I understand it is, a work of faith is a good work, because God had to move or do the work, due to your inability to get it done.
Speaking words of faith over a situation or person, is a good work.
casting out an evil spirit, is a good work also.
We can't do that in our own strengths, abilities, or power.
As I said, each good work, is specific, for each and everything we have faith for.
For each event, that person had to believe and act on said belief, for God to cause that belief to manifest and produce a desired result.
It is done with intent and purpose with expectancy.
You have to do something in line with a specific belief or faith for it to be a good work.
Yep, you are misreading my posts. the Fruit of the Spirit is love, so any work that is done out of love for God and for his Glory is wrought of the Spirit, FOR WE DO NOT BY OUR CARNAL NATURE LOVE GOD. Do we?

I hope you’re not trolling.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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No, but He (God) CHOOSES to do it that way. What point exactly are you trying to make? That man can keep himself without Gods grace? Is that what you are saying. Or are you saying that God does not use secondary causes to fulfill His purpose. Because one is hyper Arminian and the other is hyper Calvinism

If I am wrong on both counts, I apologize in advance. I am not as careless about misrepresenting people as some on these boards, so I want to understand you accurately

Are you saying

A. A Christian can preserve himself without Gods help

B. God does not use secondary means to accomplish His Will

C. Both

D. Neither- something else

Pick a, b, c, or d so I can understand you better
Phill 2:12Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. 13For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Phill 2:12Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. 13For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose.
AMEN!!!! God WORKS IN US ( believers) both to will and to do of His good pleasure. One of my favorite passages! 👍👍👍👍👍

The reason why a believer can both will and do of Gods good pleasure is because God is working IN US
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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AMEN!!!! God WORKS IN US ( believers) both to will and to do of His good pleasure. One of my favorite passages! 👍👍👍👍👍
Correct but my point is, God doesn't take control of anyone but rather gives the person an understanding from which the person can make decisions.
Like in Jesus' case; The Father and the son are one but the son had to understand and submit to the Father's will. We can see this demonstrated especially before crucifixion when Jesus prays to the Father in anguish and full understanding of what was to happen to Him. He was asking the Father to take away the cup from Him but later came to terms that He must face it, not that He didn't know but He fully knew. The Father did not control of the son in this case but through understanding, the will of the Father was done.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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Are you saying, that Galatians 5:19-20 says works of the flesh are considered good works?
I hope not, because all those things listed are bad works.
See post 91,I think my post was misleading to you when I said man might see works of the flesh as good works.
To GOD works of the flesh are not good
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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Phill 2:12Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. 13For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose.
Salvation, according to Strong's definition means "a deliverance". God would not tell us that eternal deliverance is not by our works, and then turn around and tell us to work out our eternal deliverance, unless he was talking about two different deliverance.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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Salvation, according to Strong's definition means "a deliverance". God would not tell us that eternal deliverance is not by our works, and then turn around and tell us to work out our eternal deliverance, unless he was talking about two different deliverance.
No He wasn't. OSAS is a misunderstanding.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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No He wasn't. OSAS is a misunderstanding.
If you believe that God was not talking about two different salvation, then why would he say "not of works" and then say "work it out". Can you explain why God would say such a thing?
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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If you believe that God was not talking about two different salvation, then why would he say "not of works" and then say "work it out". Can you explain why God would say such a thing?
1. We are being saved from sin and eternal death, which is referred to as many other descriptions like corruption or darkness but still means the same thing. We are not being saved from multiple things, so salvation in the scriptures is just one salvation.

2. Just like sin was brought to all, reconciliation and righteous was brought to all. Those that stand saved in the end, abide in Christ by obeying the command to love others. Those that hate are separated from Christ. This abiding in Christ our righteousness, is what we 'work out'.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
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Yep, you are misreading my posts. the Fruit of the Spirit is love, so any work that is done out of love for God and for his Glory is wrought of the Spirit, FOR WE DO NOT BY OUR CARNAL NATURE LOVE GOD. Do we?
I hope you’re not trolling.
I don't troll anyone. If anything, I try to expose such.
I have not receive any revelation on this subject so I am questioning some terms and expressions used in the Christian circle.
Love is a fruit of the Spirit because of the Spirit that is in us.
We love God because the Spirit of God in us, causes us to love God.

Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Joh 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

We do the works of whomever or whatever our Father/father is.
If the God of heaven is our Father, we will do the works of our Heavenly Father, just like those whose father is the devil, will do the works of their father, the devil.
I would not say ANY work, as in all works, we do will glorify God, but the works we are LED to do, by His Spirit, those are good works.
If we are talking about works done in love for God and for His glory, even doing good for one's neighbor or fellow brother or sister in Christ, which are the two greatest old commandments, aren't we still talking about works of the law? Because all the works under the old testament or covenant were for Israel to do good.
In fact all the law of the old testament is wrapped up in those two commandments of love.
Love God and neighbor. Which means doing good, kind, compassionate, and loving things that would please both Him and your neighbor.
All those things are part of the law.
There has to be something that separates a Christian from a Jew, or even a loving and compassionate nonbeliever, when all are obeying the old testament commandment.
As for the Jew, they do the same as a Christian, when it come to both pleasing and glorifying God.
So how are the two different, when the Jews are doing so-called, good works under the old covenant and the Christians are doing the same works under the new?
This is not, by the way, called trolling. I am raising legitimate arguments. At the very least, it should cause one to pause and think.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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AMEN!!!! God WORKS IN US ( believers) both to will and to do of His good pleasure. One of my favorite passages! 👍👍👍👍👍
I don't troll anyone. If anything, I try to expose such.
I have not receive any revelation on this subject so I am questioning some terms and expressions used in the Christian circle.
Love is a fruit of the Spirit because of the Spirit that is in us.
We love God because the Spirit of God in us, causes us to love God.

Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Joh 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

We do the works of whomever or whatever our Father/father is.
If the God of heaven is our Father, we will do the works of our Heavenly Father, just like those whose father is the devil, will do the works of their father, the devil.
I would not say ANY work, as in all works, we do will glorify God, but the works we are LED to do, by His Spirit, those are good works.
If we are talking about works done in love for God and for His glory, even doing good for one's neighbor or fellow brother or sister in Christ, which are the two greatest old commandments, aren't we still talking about works of the law? Because all the works under the old testament or covenant were for Israel to do good.
In fact all the law of the old testament is wrapped up in those two commandments of love.
Love God and neighbor. Which means doing good, kind, compassionate, and loving things that would please both Him and your neighbor.
All those things are part of the law.
There has to be something that separates a Christian from a Jew, or even a loving and compassionate nonbeliever, when all are obeying the old testament commandment.
As for the Jew, they do the same as a Christian, when it come to both pleasing and glorifying God.
So how are the two different, when the Jews are doing so-called, good works under the old covenant and the Christians are doing the same works under the new?
This is not, by the way, called trolling. I am raising legitimate arguments. At the very least, it should cause one to pause and think.
The righteousness of the Law is fulfilled when we walk in the Spirit

Love is part of the Law. It is also the fruit of the Spirit. In other words the Law has been written on our hearts

Now watch someone else, not you, come along and call me a legalist for quoting the Bible
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
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The righteousness of the Law is fulfilled when we walk in the Spirit

Love is part of the Law. It is also the fruit of the Spirit. In other words the Law has been written on our hearts

Now watch someone else, not you, come along and call me a legalist for quoting the Bible
Agreed.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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Can you explain to me what your perception of God's grace is and how God applies it?
GOD Loves righteousness and everything GOD IS Is righteous and HE gave man a choice,a choice to be obedient to HIS VOICE or listen to his own self and be obedient to HIS own fleshly desire.Man(Adam)chose his self desire and was not obedient to GODs VOICE but GOD did not walk away from man but GOD being righteous did things righteously and added the law so that man would know what HIS perfect standard of righteousness was but man with the seed of Adam could not meet GODs perfect standard of righteousness because of the weakness of the flesh although he delighted In the law of GOD he would continue sinning.

So then GOD sent HIS WORD manifested In Flesh fully man and fully GOD full of Mercy and TRUTH to righteously fulfill the law as a man and once again make It possible for man to have a relationship with a righteous loving GOD by Grace through faith because no longer would the weakness of the flesh stop us but now the Issue Is faith In the WORD of GOD for whosoever believes that they might have Eternal Life.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Just wondering, do you think King David, a man after God's own heart, and the apple of God's eye, will be in heaven, when he committed adultery, murder, and lied?
If he repent, he go to heaven If not then I believe These verse not Lie

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 King James Version (KJV)

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Seem to me you not believe this verse don't you?
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,181
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1. We are being saved from sin and eternal death, which is referred to as many other descriptions like corruption or darkness but still means the same thing. We are not being saved from multiple things, so salvation in the scriptures is just one salvation.

2. Just like sin was brought to all, reconciliation and righteous was brought to all. Those that stand saved in the end, abide in Christ by obeying the command to love others. Those that hate are separated from Christ. This abiding in Christ our righteousness, is what we 'work out'.
Abiding in Christ is when we are following his commandments. None of us can continually abide in him without yielding our bodies to the lust of the things of the world, which makes it necessary to repent. We, at the times when we are walking in the flesh (sinning) do not lose our eternal salvation, but we do lose our fellowship with God until we repent. When we repent and God forgives us, we have been saved (delivered) from the results of our sin.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,181
1,177
113
If he repent, he go to heaven If not then I believe These verse not Lie

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 King James Version (KJV)

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Seem to me you not believe this verse don't you?
The "KINGDOM OF GOD" is not referring to eternal heaven, but to the church. The church that Jesus set up is called by many different names in the scriptures. When Christ died on the cross for all that his Father gave him he washed them as white as snow. No sin that they do will hinder them from having eternal life.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,181
1,177
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GOD Loves righteousness and everything GOD IS Is righteous and HE gave man a choice,a choice to be obedient to HIS VOICE or listen to his own self and be obedient to HIS own fleshly desire.Man(Adam)chose his self desire and was not obedient to GODs VOICE but GOD did not walk away from man but GOD being righteous did things righteously and added the law so that man would know what HIS perfect standard of righteousness was but man with the seed of Adam could not meet GODs perfect standard of righteousness because of the weakness of the flesh although he delighted In the law of GOD he would continue sinning.

So then GOD sent HIS WORD manifested In Flesh fully man and fully GOD full of Mercy and TRUTH to righteously fulfill the law as a man and once again make It possible for man to have a relationship with a righteous loving GOD by Grace through faith because no longer would the weakness of the flesh stop us but now the Issue Is faith In the WORD of GOD for whosoever believes that they might have Eternal Life.[/QUOT
GOD Loves righteousness and everything GOD IS Is righteous and HE gave man a choice,a choice to be obedient to HIS VOICE or listen to his own self and be obedient to HIS own fleshly desire.Man(Adam)chose his self desire and was not obedient to GODs VOICE but GOD did not walk away from man but GOD being righteous did things righteously and added the law so that man would know what HIS perfect standard of righteousness was but man with the seed of Adam could not meet GODs perfect standard of righteousness because of the weakness of the flesh although he delighted In the law of GOD he would continue sinning.

So then GOD sent HIS WORD manifested In Flesh fully man and fully GOD full of Mercy and TRUTH to righteously fulfill the law as a man and once again make It possible for man to have a relationship with a righteous loving GOD by Grace through faith because no longer would the weakness of the flesh stop us but now the Issue Is faith In the WORD of GOD for whosoever believes that they might have Eternal Life.
God did, indeed, give man a choice as to how he wants to live his life here on earth, but God is sovereign in giving eternal life to man. It is by his grace, without the help of man. Only his sheep (born again children) hear his voice.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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Are you saying the first man was disobedient because he wasn’t GODs child?If that’s what you are saying then you are missing the point.The point Is Adam had a choice and he CHOSE,to listen to his own desire.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
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Australia
Abiding in Christ is when we are following his commandments. None of us can continually abide in him without yielding our bodies to the lust of the things of the world, which makes it necessary to repent. We, at the times when we are walking in the flesh (sinning) do not lose our eternal salvation, but we do lose our fellowship with God until we repent. When we repent and God forgives us, we have been saved (delivered) from the results of our sin.
Do you think that 'broken fellowship' comes from Him or from us?