Obedience, Oh No!
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New Living Translation
He lifts the poor from the dust and the needy from the garbage dump. He sets them among princes, placing them in seats of honor. For all the earth is the LORD's, and he has set the world in order.
He lifts the poor from the dust and the needy from the garbage dump. He sets them among princes, placing them in seats of honor. For all the earth is the LORD's, and he has set the world in order.
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R
Yep!
I'm rejoicing with you tonight. This common experience of the Spirit is what unifies us in love. This is where our petty doctrinal differences fade away and our hearts are joined in perfect unity in Christ. This is what 'church' and the fellowship of the saints is all about. You bless me, I bless you.
I'm rejoicing with you tonight. This common experience of the Spirit is what unifies us in love. This is where our petty doctrinal differences fade away and our hearts are joined in perfect unity in Christ. This is what 'church' and the fellowship of the saints is all about. You bless me, I bless you.
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R
Budman is your brother, no matter how imperfect of knowledge you may think him. And here you say he is part of the falling away. That's not good. 
Could we speak better to each other please?
Most of this thread has been misunderstanding of what each other is truly saying.
Could we speak better to each other please?
Most of this thread has been misunderstanding of what each other is truly saying.
Now I'm all for healthy, constructive differences in our doctrinal beliefs but there is a line that you can not cross and still be accepted and received by the church as a brother/sister. Hyper/Freegrace is one of those lines. It's to be treated no different than how we are to regard someone who comes into this forum and claims he a Christian and then says that our works earn our justification before God. We don't hate them. We don't hurt them. We just handle it the way John and Paul say how to handle it:
"9Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. 10If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting"-2 John 1:9-10
"11But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? "-1 Corinthians 5:11-12
R
Yes, ultimately, God is the one who knows who is saved and who is not and will pass judgment accordingly. As for us mere mortals, our responsibility and right is to guard ourselves against those who by all appearances show themselves to be false. Christians are under no obligation whatsoever to have to accept someone as a believer just because they say they are one. Whether they truly are or not is between them and God, and time will reveal if they are. Christ himself gave us the right to consider a person to be a brother or not by how they act and to treat them accordingly.
I believe that James was talking to jews that wanted to be under law and was explaining to them the way a man would recognize that their faith was true, but GOD does not look at things the way a man looks at things.
GOD looks at the heart.
You see James was telling those men show me your faith without your works and I will show you my faith by my works.
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A man cannot recognize your faith unless he sees that what you say matches what you do because man looks at the outward appearances.
GOD looks at the heart.
You see James was telling those men show me your faith without your works and I will show you my faith by my works.
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A man cannot recognize your faith unless he sees that what you say matches what you do because man looks at the outward appearances.
- "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." (1John 5.1,2).
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Amen, that is plainly Heresy.
Heretics will not inherit the kingdom of God.
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21
JPT
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You know of course, that we often say something that upon deep examination, we don't actually think. What I mean is that we are highly capable of holding two contrary things to be true and not realize we are doing this, and that eventually the breach gets sealed.
And then there is also the problem that men don't fully understand what the other is trying to convey and often think someone to be saying the exact opposite of what they ARE saying. Even paul, when he taught grace, was accused of preaching licentiousness.
And when you quote 1 Corinthians there, you appear to be calling the man immoral, covetous, an idolater, a swindler, a drunkard - and you purposely highlight that section in bold.
I've run across this man for some time now and I don't think he has given you cause to say this about him.
You have to let men have their mistakes and imperfect knowledge of God. After all, you have some mistakes and imperfections in the knowledge of God too. Talk kindly and reasonably with the man or you will find that you are the one who has crossed a line you cannot cross.
And then there is also the problem that men don't fully understand what the other is trying to convey and often think someone to be saying the exact opposite of what they ARE saying. Even paul, when he taught grace, was accused of preaching licentiousness.
And when you quote 1 Corinthians there, you appear to be calling the man immoral, covetous, an idolater, a swindler, a drunkard - and you purposely highlight that section in bold.
I've run across this man for some time now and I don't think he has given you cause to say this about him.
You have to let men have their mistakes and imperfect knowledge of God. After all, you have some mistakes and imperfections in the knowledge of God too. Talk kindly and reasonably with the man or you will find that you are the one who has crossed a line you cannot cross.