Omitted verses.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,114
1,108
113
I have started a thread on how some of the changes from one version to another matter doctrinally. They are no small thing.
I would like to see that list of perceived doctrinal differences....
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
5,730
2,395
113
Why not respond to my questions? Where is your final authority on what God has said? Do you have one?
I already told you, there is no "final authority." Should there be? We have an embarrassment of wealth when it comes to God's word and you want to limit it to one translation, period? I'm not the one making claims to final authority, you are. I think it needs to be made clear that you have no scriptural authority for your "final authority" (KJV) either; but that should be plenty clear by now.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
15,263
3,213
113
I already told you, there is no "final authority." Should there be? We have an embarrassment of wealth when it comes to God's word and you want to limit it to one translation, period? I'm not the one making claims to final authority, you are. I think it needs to be made clear that you have no scriptural authority for your "final authority" (KJV) either; but that should be plenty clear by now.
No final authority = every man does that which is right in his own eyes.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
15,263
3,213
113
How bout you float just ONE of them past me now.... sort of an "appetizer", if you will.....
Just so you know, I have nothing against you brother. I agree on many things you post.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Most new versions leave out the part that says, "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." According to the KJV there are two aspects of having no condemnation according to context. One has be in Christ Jesus, and must not be walking not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. The enemy wants those in Christ today to justify sin instead of battling against it. I believe the enemy will do everything he can to give a person a water down version of the bible to give the idea that they do not need to worry about sin leading to condemnation. What people fail to realize is there is temporal condemnation the believer is subject to if one does not walk after the Spirit. Sin is always a serious thing with the Lord. Here is an example:

Romans 14
14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
 

2ndTimeIsTheCharm

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2023
590
336
63
If not the KJV, then where are the words of God to live by? All of them? Are they together, completed in one book? Scattered? No where?
They are all in Jesus who is The Word.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

So all the truth is not in some physical book like the KJV - it's in Jesus. If you have Jesus as your Lord and Savior and you abide in Him, He will keep you in His truth, no matter which translation is used.

That's why godly Christians can safely study from any translation of the Bible. Jesus who is The Word will guide and guard us as we study scripture.

-=<>=-

Also realize that not all godly people study from the KJV Bible. God has used other translations of scripture to help His children understand Him best.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,114
1,108
113
Just so you know, I have nothing against you brother. I agree on many things you post.
Same here.... we just disagree on the exclusivity of the KJV... certainly not a deal breaker for me.... I just disagree with you. That's one of the great things about life in Christ.... there is a lot of room for differing understanding...
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
5,730
2,395
113
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Most new versions leave out the part that says, "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." According to the KJV there are two aspects of having no condemnation according to context. One has be in Christ Jesus, and must not be walking not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. The enemy wants those in Christ today to justify sin instead of battling against it. I believe the enemy will do everything he can to give a person a water down version of the bible to give the idea that they do not need to worry about sin leading to condemnation.
Romans 4:1 doesn't water down anything. Right after that, the ESV in vv. 3-4, says: who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. And the ESV has a note after v. 1 showing that some manuscripts include it. So in this case at least the claim is exaggerated; it doesn't change any important doctrine.

Romans 4:3-4 "By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." (ESV)
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,114
1,108
113
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Most new versions leave out the part that says, "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." According to the KJV there are two aspects of having no condemnation according to context. One has be in Christ Jesus, and must not be walking not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. The enemy wants those in Christ today to justify sin instead of battling against it. I believe the enemy will do everything he can to give a person a water down version of the bible to give the idea that they do not need to worry about sin leading to condemnation.
Yes, that phrase is in the Greek, I do not know why it was not put in the newer translations. It is, to me, just an emphasis, or clarification of "those who are in Christ Jesus"....
and, it is specifically mentioned in verse 4, so there is no chance that anyone could misunderstand what is meant by "them which are in Christ Jesus"
From the NASB
"4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
From the NIV
"4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
15,263
3,213
113
Romans 4:1 doesn't water down anything. Right after that, the ESV in vv. 3-4, says: who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. And the ESV has a note after v. 1 showing that some manuscripts include it. So in this case at least the claim is exaggerated; it doesn't change any important doctrine.

Romans 4:3-4 "By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." (ESV)
Those who read the ESV do not have clarity that there is condemnation for walking after the flesh. I have personally heard it said over and over, "If you're ever in Christ, you never will face condemnation. Praise the Lord, there is no condemnation in Christ!"
 

VARob

Well-known member
Dec 21, 2020
1,362
410
83
Those who read the ESV do not have clarity that there is condemnation for walking after the flesh. I have personally heard it said over and over, "If you're ever in Christ, you never will face condemnation. Praise the Lord, there is no condemnation in Christ!"
All you have to do is read verse 4, which IS in all the Greek texts.

Rom 8:4 ESV in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
15,263
3,213
113
Yes, that phrase is in the Greek, I do not know why it was not put in the newer translations. It is, to me, just an emphasis, or clarification of "those who are in Christ Jesus"....
and, it is specifically mentioned in verse 4, so there is no chance that anyone could misunderstand what is meant by "them which are in Christ Jesus"
From the NASB
"4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
From the NIV
"4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."
Have you ever noticed Genesis 3:16? Take a look at the difference. The ESV states that Eve's desire will be contrary to her husband. What's funny is that footnotes say, "or towards". Which is it? Here it is as stated in the KJV.

16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.


ESV
16 To the woman he said, “I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be contrary to[f] your husband, but he shall rule over you.”
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
15,263
3,213
113
All you have to do is read verse 4, which IS in all the Greek texts.

Rom 8:4 ESV in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Verse 4 says nothing about condemnation. Those in Christ Jesus can suffer condemnation if they walk after the flesh. It is very misleading.
 

VARob

Well-known member
Dec 21, 2020
1,362
410
83
Verse 4 says nothing about condemnation. Those in Christ Jesus can suffer condemnation if they walk after the flesh. It is very misleading.
The point is that the authenticity of Rom 8:1b is questionable. There are Greek manuscripts that do not have the phrase. Some translations include it, some do not.

https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Romans 8:1

That the KJV includes it does not mean the KJV is correct.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
5,730
2,395
113
Those who read the ESV do not have clarity that there is condemnation for walking after the flesh. I have personally heard it said over and over, "If you're ever in Christ, you never will face condemnation. Praise the Lord, there is no condemnation in Christ!"
Now I know for sure you're not genuine. You have an agenda and you're stickin' to it in spite of the evidence. Life's too short, I'm out.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
15,263
3,213
113
Yes, that phrase is in the Greek, I do not know why it was not put in the newer translations. It is, to me, just an emphasis, or clarification of "those who are in Christ Jesus"....
and, it is specifically mentioned in verse 4, so there is no chance that anyone could misunderstand what is meant by "them which are in Christ Jesus"
From the NASB
"4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
From the NIV
"4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."
Here's another...

The Doctrine of fasting to cast out and remove unclean spirits.

Matthew 17:21 tells us that casting out strong and persistent devils is by prayer and fasting. Yet, the verse is totally removed in the new versions. One of the key doctrines of fasting that Jesus commands is gone. The enemy wins if a person goes by a modern version. I've never encountered this before in my life, but if I did, I would certainly pray and fast as the Lord commands.