Once saved always saved? Or is salvation conditional on believing and following God's Word?

[dcontroversal]

Because I do not need to and it is a distraction to the OP. I left your thread earlier because all you guys were doing were name calling. I hope you can respect this thread and discuss the OP and the scriptures provided and share your view here with us. You are welcome to join in with us here as long as you respect the people here and stop name calling.

Third times a charm....and the fact you won't answer is speaking volumes....

ARE you LOVEGODFOREVER here under a NEW NAME?

and

HAVE you lost salvation before...even ONCE? <----this is what you are peddling SO I am asking?

and I did share my view on page ONE which you ignored.....

 

[dcontroversal]

AND when did I call you a name in this thread?

You know.....I have been here almost 6 years under the same name.....I do not know why it is so hard to answer yes or no........

 

[Hemustincrease]

In view of the verse I had quoted, I expected one would also recall what is true regarding "the Holy Spirit" as mentioned in that verse (in relation to the believer / members of "the Church which is His body"), that being, "13 in whom you also, having heard the word of truth, the gospel your of salvation, in whom also having believed you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance to [/unto] the redemption of the acquired possession [i.e. "the Church which is His body"], to the praise of His glory."

Indeed once again indicative to believers not unbelievers. Were sealed in the past does not mean you cannot be unsealed and quench the Spirit of God in the future or there would be no warnings not to...

1Thessalonians 5:19 Quench not the Spirit.

QUENCH G4570 Greek Word means put out... σβέννυμι; sbennumi A prolonged form of an apparently primary verb; to extinguish (literally or figuratively): - go out, quench.

God's Spirit is with us in the present tense as we believe and follow God's word.

God bless

 

[dcontroversal]

Indeed once again indicative to believers not unbelievers. Were sealed in the past does not mean you cannot be unsealed and quench the Spirit of God in the future or there would be no warnings not to...

1Thessalonians 5:19 Quench not the Spirit.

QUENCH G4570 Greek Word means put out... σβέννυμι; sbennumi A prolonged form of an apparently primary verb; to extinguish (literally or figuratively): - go out, quench.

God bless

FALSE............QUENCE and the context does not = UNSEAL.........

 

[dcontroversal]

It does not say sealed unto the day of redemption and or unless you fail and walk away or sin or don't keep the commandments....

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh, I live in faith, that of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." Gal2:20

Once again indicative of believers not unbelievers.

How would you characterize "the Son of God" ("[faith] OF the Son of God")? Changeable? Insufficient? Puny? Weak? Other?

[comp. w/ "fruit OF the Spirit" Gal5:22 "faith/faithfulness [G4102]"]

 

[Hemustincrease]

It is easy to conflate scripture out of context WAGS....par for the course with religion

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to SAVE the that BELIEVE

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy has he saved us

Abraham believed GOD and it was put to his account for righteousness

We conclude that a man is JUSTIFIED by FAITH without the deeds/works of the law

Context matters, what do you believe is not in context and what context have you provided? Once again believe is indicative of present tense. Those who believed yesterday and not today are no longed believers because they no longer follow.

 

[Hemustincrease]

How would you characterize "the Son of God" ("faith OF the Son of God"). Changeable? Insufficient? Other?

Just as it reads. The faith of the Son of God = to believe and follow God's word (always present tense).

 

[dcontroversal]

Context matters, what do you believe is not in context and what context have you provided? Once again believe is indicative of present tense. Those who believed yesterday and not today are no longed believers because they no longer follow.

and salvation, eternal life, justified is IN the PERFECT TENSE....try that on for size.....SANCTIFIED FOREVER HEBREWS STATES.....7th dayism will not make the grade

 

[Hemustincrease]

and salvation, eternal life, justified is IN the PERFECT TENSE....try that on for size.....SANCTIFIED FOREVER HEBREWS STATES.....7th dayism will not make the grade

Thank you but as posted earlier according to the scriptures already provided in the OP and elsewhere God's promises are conditional and only to those who believe and follow Gods word in the present tense. I believe and follow God's word how about you?

 

[Melach]

YES obedience is everything.
Here is a good starting point for all who claim to be 'saved' as Christians -

37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and
you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”
40 And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.”
41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
Acts 2:

And yet so many refuse to comply and refuse to obey.

offtopic do u believe in baptism in Jesus' name only? not Father Son and Holy Spirit?

 

[Melach]

can some OSAS believers adress all the verses he posted? he will never change his mind unless those are addressed cause they are in the bible after all.

if he is wrong what do they mean thats how you change his mind

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Just as it reads. The faith of the Son of God = to believe and follow God's word (always present tense).

I added to my post (again, lol):


"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh, I live in faith, that of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." Gal2:20



How would you characterize "the Son of God" ("[faith] OF the Son of God")? Changeable? Insufficient? Puny? Weak? Other?

[comp. w/ "fruit OF the Spirit" Gal5:22 "faith/faithfulness [G4102]" (HIS FRUIT... HIS "faith/faithfulness [G4102]")]

 

[dcontroversal]

Thank you but as posted earlier according to the scriptures already provided in the OP and elsewhere God's promises are conditional and only to those who believe and follow Gods word in the present tense. I believe and follow God's word how about you?

No, you believe in your own conflated view of God's word.....and like my original post.....a losabe salvation CONTRADICTS the bible and is stated NO WHERE.....the only CONDITION is BELIEF

MY bible states that JESUS begins, finishes and COMPLETES the work of faith IN US and WILL LOSE nothing....

SO NO....you do NOT believe GOD'S word, NOR do you follow it....

SO....YOUR JESUS does not finish his work and he can indeed LOSE something is what you expect us to believe and buy?

 

[Hemustincrease]

No, you believe in your own conflated view of God's word.....and like my original post.....a losabe salvation CONTRADICTS the bible and is stated NO WHERE.....the only CONDITION is BELIEF

MY bible states that JESUS begins, finishes and COMPLETES the work of faith IN US and WILL LOSE nothing....

SO NO....you do NOT believe GOD'S word, NOR do you follow it....

SO....YOUR JESUS does not finish his work and he can indeed LOSE something is what you expect us to believe and buy?

Who never said that Salvation is not God's work in us as we believe and follow God's word? Not me. Then why pretend something is being said here that is not? There is no need to be nasty here with your replies. Please if you disagree with anything that has been posted please show why from the scriptures? If you cannot why do you not believe the scriptures provided?

 

[dcontroversal]

can some OSAS believers adress all the verses he posted? he will never change his mind unless those are addressed cause they are in the bible after all.

if he is wrong what do they mean thats how you change his mind

First of ALL....the OP has conflated numerous texts out of context into one big quagmire of fallacy.......THE O.T. and the blessings afforded therein were conditional upon obedience.....IT has NO BEARING on the N.T. other than deeming ALL humanity guilty because NO ONE could keep the law.....

2nd.....The words of JESUS, which he also conflates into a false gospel must ALSO be viewed under the banner of understanding that JESUS was born, lived and DIED under the LAW which ratified the NEW COVENANT

3rd....THE scriptures he twists in the N.T. are primarily aimed at FELLOWSHIP, not salvation.....

and he is peddling the SAME dogma a former member used to peddle from the same country........and refuses to answer....

a. Are you this former member her under a new name
b. Have you ever lost salvation yourself.....

Pretense, conflated scripture, refusal to answer valid questions, twisted and skewed scripture, denial of perfect tense verbs, and on and on and on.....speaks volumes....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Bible makes it clear if you want to save yourself by obedience it requires perfection.

Since no one is perfect no one can earn salvation by obedience

That means grace is required

 

[dcontroversal]

Who never said that Salvation is not God's work in us as we believe and follow God's word? Not me. Then why pretend something is being said here that is not? There is no need to be nasty here with your replies. Please if you disagree with anything that has been posted please show why from the scriptures? If you cannot why do you not believe the scriptures provided?

I asked valid questions and made valid points.....and your refusal to address them and then ACCUSE is speaking volumes.....I have not called you names or been nasty....

 

[Smooth]

Is salvation conditional on choosing to believe and follow Gods Word?

Hi all, just wanting to hear your thoughts, as I have been reading some scriptures of late all through the OLD and NEW Testament that suggest that the fruit of our faith in God's Word determines what we do and making salvation conditional on both BELIEVING what God says and following what God says.

THE LITTLE WORD “IF” DEMONSTRATES IN BOTH THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT HEBREW AND GREEK SCRIPTURES THAT SALVATION IS CONDITIONAL ON FREE WILL TO CHOOSE TO BOTH BELIEVE AND FOLLOW (FRUIT) GOD'S WORD (present tense) OR NOT TO BELIEVE AND FOLLOW GOD'S WORD.

OLD TESTAMENT (Not definitive)

“IF” (Hebrew) *H518; אם;'im; A primitive particle; used very widely as demonstrative, lo !; interrogative, whether ?; or conditional, if, although ; also Oh that !, when ; hence as a negative, not: - (and, can-, doubtless, if, that) (not), + but, either, + except, + more (-over if, than), neither, nevertheless, nor, oh that, or, + save (only, -ing), seeing, since, sith, + surely (no more, none, not), though, + of a truth, + unless, + verily, when, whereas, whether, while, + yet.

We must do well according to Gods' Word (believe and follow) in order to be accepted...

GENESIS 4:7 IF (conditional) you do well, shall you not be accepted? and if you do not well, sin lies at the door. And to you shall be his desire, and you shall rule over him.

Consequences for not believing and following...

GENESIS 20:7 Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for you, and you shall live: and IF (conditional) you restore her not, know you that you shall surely die, you, and all that are yours.

EXODUS 4:23 And I say to you, let my son go, that he may serve me: and IF (conditional) you refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay your son, even your firstborn.

Blessings for believing and following...

EXODUS 15:26 And said, IF (conditional) you will diligently listen to the voice of the LORD your God, and will do that which is right in his sight, and will give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases on you, which I have brought on the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that heals you.

LEVITICUS 26:3-5 [3], IF (conditional) you walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them; [4] THEN I will give you rain in due season, and the land shall yield her increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit. [5], And your threshing shall reach to the vintage, and the vintage shall reach to the sowing time: and you shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely.

LEVITICUS 26:14-18 [14], But IF (conditional) you will not listen to me, and will not do all these commandments; [15] And IF (conditional) you shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that you will not do all my commandments, but that you break my covenant: [16], I also will do this to you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and you shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. [17], And I will set my face against you, and you shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and you shall flee when none pursues you. [18], And IF (conditional) you will not yet for all this listen to me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

There are too many more to write so may stop here for the Old Testament scriptures and maybe post some more latter.

..............

NEW TESTAMENT (not definitive)

“IF” (Greek) *G1437; אםἐάν; ean; a conditional particle; in case that, provided, etc.; often used in connection with other particles to denote indefiniteness or uncertainty : - before, but, except, (and) if, (if) so, (what-, whither-) soever, though, when (-soever), whether (or), to whom, [who-] so (-ever)., See G3361.

God's forgiveness is conditional...

I JOHN 1:9 [9], IF (conditional) we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

MATTHEW 6:14-15 [14], For IF (conditional) you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: [15], But IF(conditional) you forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Being a disciple we must follow what Jesus says...

MATTHEW 16:24 Then said Jesus to his disciples, IF (conditional) any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Conditions for inheriting eternal life...

MATTHEW 19:16-19 [16], And, behold, one came and said to him, Good Master, what good thing shall I DO, that I may have eternal life? [17], And he said to him, Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but IF (conditional) you will enter into life, keep the commandments. [18], He said to him, Which? Jesus said, You shall do no murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, [19], Honor your father and your mother: and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

JOHN 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: IF (conditional) any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

JOHN 8:24 I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins: for IF (conditional) you believe not that I am he, you shall die in your sins.

JOHN 8:31-32 [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, IF (conditional) you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed;[32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

JOHN 8:39 They answered and said to him, Abraham is our father. Jesus said to them, IF you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham.

JOHN 8:51 Truly, truly, I say to you, IF (conditional) a man keeps my saying, he shall never see death.

God only hears those who are following His Word...

JOHN 9:31 Now we know that God hears not sinners: but IF (conditional) any man be a worshiper of God, and does his will, him he hears.

JOHN 14:15 IF (conditional) you love me, keep my commandments.

JOHN 15:10 IF (conditional) you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.

JOHN 15:14 You are my friends, IF (conditional) you do whatever I command you.

JOHN 14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, IF (conditional) a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our stay with him.

JOHN 15:6-7 [6], IF (conditional) a man abides not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. [7], IF (conditional) you abide in me, and my words abide in you, you shall ask what you will, and it shall be done to you.

Ok once again too many to list and may post some more latter..

............

QUESTIONS

Q1 What does it mean to believe in God?
Q2 What is saving faith?
Q2 Is salvation conditional on BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING God's Word or just believing it?

Everything you’ve shared pertains to having faith. My heart hurts for you that you walk in fear rather than confidence in the Lord.

 

[Melach]

First of ALL....the OP has conflated numerous texts out of context into one big quagmire of fallacy.......THE O.T. and the blessings afforded therein were conditional upon obedience.....IT has NO BEARING on the N.T. other than deeming ALL humanity guilty because NO ONE could keep the law.....

2nd.....The words of JESUS, which he also conflates into a false gospel must ALSO be viewed under the banner of understanding that JESUS was born, lived and DIED under the LAW which ratified the NEW COVENANT

3rd....THE scriptures he twists in the N.T. are primarily aimed at FELLOWSHIP, not salvation.....

and he is peddling the SAME dogma a former member used to peddle from the same country........and refuses to answer....

a. Are you this former member her under a new name
b. Have you ever lost salvation yourself.....

Pretense, conflated scripture, refusal to answer valid questions, twisted and skewed scripture, denial of perfect tense verbs, and on and on and on.....speaks volumes....

thanks big bro. thats what i believe too. dispensationalism thats called. or whatever you can call it, rightly dividing the bible. putting things in right time frames.