Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[cv5]

This passage is a death blow to OSAS.

Come on man. There are tons of unequivocal doctrinal statements that indicate otherwise.
All the counsel of God needs to be examined before issuing off the cuff decrees.

 

[thomas64]

This passage is a death blow to OSAS.

Actually Paul supports it:
But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. Col1:22&23
And,
“But my righteous[g] one will live by faith.
And I take no pleasure
in the one who shrinks back.”[h]
39 But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved.
Heb10:38&39

 

[rogerg]

It should be where all believers are concerned. However, I've come to learn on the internet, any plain bible verse can be overturned if neccessary to fit in with a persons particular views

We should never trust on one verse to ascertain a doctrine God might communicate. It may be that it does,
but we cannot depend upon that being the case.
That is why we are informed of the following:

[2Pe 1:20 KJV] 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

[1Co 2:13 KJV] 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

KJV has this:

1. individually
   1. each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
2. collectively
   1. some of all types

If Christ as you say died for this world, then how do you explain these verses? Sounds to me like God plans to destroy it not save it.

[2Pe 3:10, 12 KJV]
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. ...
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Those who believe, do so because they have been given true faith by God as a fruit of the Spirit upon becoming
born again. True faith is only of God's work, it is not of men - only those to whom it has been given can truly believe.
A faith manufactured by a man is his work, not God's work and no one can be saved by their works.

I am not worried about what a bible translation says.

I am worried about what the Bible says

I looked up and showed you the greek defenitions.

I am not sure what the other passages have to do with all humankind,

again, We are dead as a result of sin. It is the reason for our death

we can not be made alive UNTIL that cause is removed/

You have God making people alive without removing the cause. Thats error/

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

In the second example of the parable of the sower, some believed for a while, but in the times of testing and trials walked away, due to making a shallow commitment. No OSAS for them we can say. In the third example, people kept getting side tracked from the path they should have been on by worldly things. Jesus did not say they walked away, only they did not mature. You mature by evermore practising right from wrong. So we could say, in the third example they did have OSAS, though they kept getting side tracked from the path they should have been on.

Actually only the last group was saved

the others were not saved, hence why they never produced fruit

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. Luke8:13

No root. No christ..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

This passage is a death blow to OSAS.

It is

No root..

How was a person who had no root saved?

come one now man..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

It should be where all believers are concerned. However, I've come to learn on the internet, any plain bible verse can be overturned if neccessary to fit in with a persons particular views

Please repeat this to yourself.

make sure your not the one overturning is misrepresenting the passage.

We need (myself included) to match our belief with the word. Not make the word math our belief

 

[ResidentAlien]

Actually Paul supports it:
But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. Col1:22&23
And,
“But my righteous[g] one will live by faith.
And I take no pleasure
in the one who shrinks back.”[h]
39 But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved.
Heb10:38&39

There are a whole lot of passages like those; but the single idea of eternal salvation trumps everything else in the minds of many. It's like they have blinders on. If it doesn't validate this one idea it doesn't exist.

 

[thomas64]

We should never trust on one verse to ascertain a doctrine God might communicate. It may be that it does,
but we cannot depend upon that being the case.
That is why we are informed of the following:

[2Pe 1:20 KJV] 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

[1Co 2:13 KJV] 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

I completely agree with you, we should not trust in one verse of scripture to build a doctrine on. And, I know no one on the internet ever changes their mind, so there is not much point in continuing this is there. I can give you multiple verses as you can me. So what do we do, do we say scripture contradicts itself all over the place? In my view, we seek a way to avoid that happening. Suppose a young person goes to church because their parents make them. They make some friends there who are all committed christians. The young person does not want to feel left out, so they make a commitment too. Will God ''officially'' place them in a saved state inspite of their less than full blooded commitment? Yes he will. The fact they made a shallow commitment does not negate them still being placed in a saved state, if we accept Jesus words. In all likelihood they will walk away, others who make a full bloodied commitment will not. If you take a hard and fast view one way or the other, you are going to contradict very plain statements in the bible. My conscience will not allow me to do that

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Actually Paul supports it:
But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. Col1:22&23
And,
“But my righteous[g] one will live by faith.
And I take no pleasure
in the one who shrinks back.”[h]
39 But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved.
Heb10:38&39

the very passage you quoted shows you Gods truth

1. Hebrews 10:39
   But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul

we are those who are born again.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

There are a whole lot of passages like those; but the single idea of eternal salvation trumps everything else in the minds of many. It's like they have blinders on. If it doesn't validate this one idea it doesn't exist.

Your right, eternal life is not eternal

we must earn the right to have salvation. Or we can lose it.

 

[thomas64]

the very passage you quoted shows you Gods truth

1. Hebrews 10:39
   But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul

we are those who are born again.

We had better leave it there, a scripture quoting contest on this subject is not something I feel inspired to do.

 

[rogerg]

I am not worried about what a bible translation says.

I am worried about what the Bible says

I looked up and showed you the greek defenitions.

I am not sure what the other passages have to do with all humankind,

again, We are dead as a result of sin. It is the reason for our death

we can not be made alive UNTIL that cause is removed/

You have God making people alive without removing the cause. Thats error/

And I showed you mine.
Removing sin is what makes someone alive spiritually, not the reverse. Man cannot do that, only God can.

[Col 2:13 KJV]
3 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

 

[rogerg]

I completely agree with you, we should not trust in one verse of scripture to build a doctrine on. And, I know no one on the internet ever changes their mind, so there is not much point in continuing this is there. I can give you multiple verses as you can me. So what do we do, do we say scripture contradicts itself all over the place? In my view, we seek a way to avoid that happening. Suppose a young person goes to church because their parents make them. They make some friends there who are all committed christians. The young person does not want to feel left out, so they make a commitment too. Will God ''officially'' place them in a saved state inspite of their less than full blooded commitment? Yes he will. The fact they made a shallow commitment does not negate them still being placed in a saved state, if we accept Jesus words. In all likelihood they will walk away, others who make a full bloodied commitment will not. If you take a hard and fast view one way or the other, you are going to contradict very plain statements in the bible. My conscience will not allow me to do that

No, He won't. Only God is the Saviour, and therefore, alone saves. We (or they of your example), are not. Man's commitment, being of himself, is meaningless and carries no weight with God - just the opposite in fact. If it is of man's doing, it is a work and anathema to God. Salvation is only though Jesus Christ, not man.

 

[HeIsHere]

No, He won't. Only God is the Saviour, and therefore, alone saves. We (or they of your example), are not. Man's commitment, being of himself, is meaningless and carries no weight with God - just the opposite in fact. If it is of man's doing, it is a work and anathema to God. Salvation is only though Jesus Christ, not man.

I absolutely agree with this!!

Thank you.

 

[thomas64]

No, He won't. Only God is the Saviour, and therefore, alone saves. We (or they of your example), are not. Man's commitment, being of himself, is meaningless and carries no weight with God - just the opposite in fact. If it is of man's doing, it is a work and anathema to God. Salvation is only though Jesus Christ, not man.

Of course you will stick to your view, most on the internet have spent far too much time studying to ever admit to error. However, you will contradict very plain statements in the bible, holding to your hard and fast view. But again, on the internet that is not really a problem is it, any verse can be overturned from what it plainly states if it disagrees with a persons preconceived ideas

 

[rogerg]

Of course you will stick to your view, most on the internet have spent far too much time studying to ever admit to error. However, you will contradict very plain statements in the bible, holding to your hard and fast view. But again, on the internet that is not really a problem is it, any verse can be overturned from what it plainly states if it disagrees with a persons preconceived ideas

It's a simple issue to resolve: Is Jesus the Saviour or is He not? Just a yes or no, please

 

[Nehemiah6]

Your right, eternal life is not eternal

Then why is not called "temporary life"? Do you see the folly of that statement?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

We had better leave it there, a scripture quoting contest on this subject is not something I feel inspired to do.

So why are you here?