once saved always saved saved is a doctrine of the devil

[eternally-gratefull]

actually I having two pleasant conversations with people who do not agree with me. Only difference is, they are willing to listen admit when something does not make sense, as well as I do. Know what? It leads to a nice study, try it

I have done this many times. Your have such a vendetta against me you can not even see this. (I even used to be a legalist like you, I used to believe the OT people were saved by the law like many dispensationalists believed. I have changed many of my beliefs, People in here have even changed some of my beliefs..

But non of this even matters. I made the point because yuo attack something you hate, You make false accusations. Against things yuo hate, and hate comes from fear.

 

[dcontroversal]

First of all your Matthew 24 verse is out of context and does not apply unto eternal salvation, but rather is directed at the tribulation saints and is indicative of physical preservation unto the body presence of Christ and our gathering together unto him...

Second, to Apply the eternal salvation found in Christ and the work accomplished by Jesus to bring about said event unto the devil is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit...

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit=State of unbelief=unforgivable sin=lost=lake of fire........Good luck with that!

 

[feedm3]

If you are this way, You have never been saved.

Can you say that again?? "IF YOU are this WAY you have never been saved"

So then destiny of heaven or hell is essential to MY ACTIONS??

Thank you. I told you, cannot teach what you try and say we have nothign to do with salavtion, if it is by the WAY I CHOOSE to live if I go to heaven

So then why are you arguing with people who believe they must obey God? You just said in the above text exactly that!

 

[kennethcadwell]

Well that is what Jesus, Paul, James, and the rest all taught you can continue this way. As well they all mention how one who was saved can, and also have fallen away. It does not say they were all not truly saved to begin with. It says in scriptures some were not truly saved, but others were then fell away.

If you are this way, You have never been saved.

You have never repented. If you think you can sin and not have any remorse you honestly do not think it is a sin to begin with.

If you have no conviction. You have not been taught by God

And considering the above 2. You have yet to repent.

To say one can be saved and do this is to say God will save someone just on mere belief (I said a prayer and God saved me, I do not have to trust him, I just have to believe) this is not found in Scripture.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well that is what Jesus, Paul, James, and the rest all taught you can continue this way. As well they all mention how one who was saved can, and also have fallen away. It does not say they were all not truly saved to begin with. It says in scriptures some were not truly saved, but others were then fell away.

1. James did not teach you can do this. He said you have not been saved if you do this ( a dead faith does not save you)\

2. Paul did not teach you can be saved and do this. He taught we are saved by faith and those saved will do works. They are new creatures in Christ.

3. Jesus did not teach yuo can be saved and do this. He said whoever believes in him is born again, and will be given the spirit of God to teach them all things concerning him.

4. Jude said people who do this were condemned before they were even born, turning the grace of God to lasciviousness.

5. John said a person who lives in sin has neither seen God, nor does he know God. and those born of God can not live in sin.

We must have different bibles?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Can you say that again?? "IF YOU are this WAY you have never been saved"

So then destiny of heaven or hell is essential to MY ACTIONS??

Thank you. I told you, cannot teach what you try and say we have nothign to do with salavtion, if it is by the WAY I CHOOSE to live if I go to heaven

So then why are you arguing with people who believe they must obey God? You just said in the above text exactly that!

No.

Your destiny to heaven is based on if you trust God or not. For by grace we have been saved (perfect tense in the greek, a completed action) by faith

If your trust God. God will change you.

If you do not trust God. You will continue in sin. (because you were not changed)

there you go being mr twisty again.

 

[prove-all]

(triune)

theres no such thing, a lie by his father

let me ask you this

where is his throne in Gods comming kingdom?

he dont have one

and why paul wrote about 150 letters

and all addressed the father then the Son,

and never menthions spirit, i would be mad

relax are we are brothers in Christ

the first born, and we can be his brother

 

[feedm3]

Well that is what Jesus, Paul, James, and the rest all taught you can continue this way. As well they all mention how one who was saved can, and also have fallen away. It does not say they were all not truly saved to begin with. It says in scriptures some were not truly saved, but others were then fell away.

Yes, some fell away, some never really even believed him - John 6:60-66.

Yet if we see somone living in sin, we have no idea if they were ever saved, or fell from grace by choosing to walk away from the staight and norrow and just on the road to destruction. We dont know these kinds of things.

EG insults people by saying if they believe they must obey God to be saved, then they trust in themselves and not the cross. Evil message!

He says our actions have nothing to do with being saved, it is strictly by our faith in the God's work of calvary.

Then he says, "if YOU are this WAY you were never saved".

Well if I choose to be some WAY (an action work of disobeedce) and it causes me to "have never been saved" then my Action directly effected my salavtion.

Which contradicts himself when he say nothing we do effects salvation. If that was true, being never saved, could not be a consequence of living a certian way. - because that is an action on our part.

So he wants to have his cake and eat too. He wants to try and keep OSAS and faith only, yet he does not want to do like the rest of the ones who want to be consistent and throw out the book of James, and John's epistles. Which him not doing that is the only thing I admire about him.

Yet him trying to reconcile what is taught in these letters, and hold on to OSAS causes him to teach a paradox.

Yet when you try to show him, he just says "your twisting my words" even though his words are quoted whenever I show his error and im not changing anything he says, he can see that.

So it is what it is

 

[Bookends]

Are you all ready for some Smores? come on over!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG insults people by saying if they believe they must obey God to be saved, then they trust in themselves and not the cross. Evil message!

lol. Saying one must obey God (work) to be saved, is trusting yourself. your trusting in your ABILITY to obey God, and not fall to your flesh. Wow. Some people just do not get it do they?

He says our actions have nothing to do with being saved, it is strictly by our faith in the God's work of calvary.

God says this, NOT EG

Not of works. Not by our righteousness. but by Gods mercy.

Then he says, "if YOU are this WAY you were never saved".

Scripture again says this. Not me.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Are you all ready for some Smores? come on over!

I was gonna build a fire, But got to late. and LONG day at work. I wish I was there with ya bro!

 

[feedm3]

No.

Your destiny to heaven is based on if you trust God or not. For by grace we have been saved (perfect tense in the greek, a completed action) by faith

If your trust God. God will change you.

If you do not trust God. You will continue in sin. (because you were not changed)

there you go being mr twisty again.

EG, show me exactly what i twisted in the ten words I quoted.

Here let me breakdown this small quote and you tell me what it means man.

"if YOU are this way"

1. If YOU means a person - right
2. Are this WAY - a way is an action, right-? it' is sometning we freely choose to be, or not to be - right?

So if "YOU" (the person NOT GOD) chooses to be this way (takes the action to live diobedient) " then YOU (the person) were NEVER saved (the consequence of the person's action) - right?

Now is that twisting anything you said? Are the parenthetical statements wrong?

If so please show me.

If not, then stop telling people they do not have to obey God to go to heaven if there action of disobedience can cause them to never have been saved.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG, show me exactly what i twisted in the ten words I quoted.

Here let me breakdown this small quote and you tell me what it means man.

"if YOU are this way"

1. If YOU means a person - right
2. Are this WAY - a way is an action, right-? it' is sometning we freely choose to be, or not to be - right?

So if "YOU" (the person NOT GOD) chooses to be this way (takes the action to live diobedient) " then YOU (the person) were NEVER saved (the consequence of the person's action) - right?

Now is that twisting anything you said? Are the parenthetical statements wrong?

If so please show me.

If not, then stop telling people they do not have to obey God to go to heaven if there action of disobedience can cause them to never have been saved.

You did it again.

You read my explanation and you still bear false witness against me.

I told you before. I am not talking about AFTER a person gets saved But HOW a person gets saved.

A person who is not yet saved will live in sin, They HAVE NOT BEEN CHANGED BY GOD YET.

thus if they are still living in sin, As John said, They have never seen God nor known God.

Why? THEY NEVER HAD FAITH.

We are saved by FAITH. NOT WORKS.

Yet you want to twist what I say, and say I demand one must work. Your a liar and a deciever

 

[feedm3]

You did it again.

You read my explanation and you still bear false witness against me.

I told you before. I am not talking about AFTER a person gets saved But HOW a person gets saved.

A person who is not yet saved will live in sin, They HAVE NOT BEEN CHANGED BY GOD YET.

thus if they are still living in sin, As John said, They have never seen God nor known God.

Why? THEY NEVER HAD FAITH.

We are saved by FAITH. NOT WORKS.

Yet you want to twist what I say, and say I demand one must work. Your a liar and a deciever

Okay, I get what your saying. Your saying if they ARE living this way then the were never saved.

Again okay.

But sense we cannot go around looking into people's hearts, and knowing if they were ever saved or not saved, then shouldnt we being teaching that repentance and obedience is a MUST in order to go to heaven (not be saved if you dont want to put it that way) but we know if they live in sin, (weather they lose salvation -or they were never saved) they cannot go to heaven.

It should not matter to you if one believes they LOST salvation, and you believe they were never saved. That is beyond the point.
The point is we cannot live in sin. So why tell someone who bleives sin will cost them salvation, they are trying to earn heaven and not trusting in God, if you believe that sin will cause them to never have been saved?

Why would it matter if they believe the way they do - look at how many passages draw that conclusion.

DO you really feel if one lived his life in obedience to God, because he did not want to lose his salvation that God is going to cast them away as never being saved, because they trusted in themsleves?

No way, espectally when there not really trusting in themselves, there trusting in the power of God to change them into a new person.

So please just try to see what I am saying. I see what you mean. I dont think you teach we can go out and live in sin, just as I dont trust my self over God.

But it does SEEM like whatever is causing you to attack those that believe has to have another motive. I cant see someone being that bothered

I

if you really believe that living in sin causes one to never have been saved, and I believe one walks away from salvation, the underling message should be the same from both of "repent or ye shall all likewise perish".

See what I am saying here?

 

[kennethcadwell]

Matthew 13:21 " Yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles ( or falls away ). " Depending on which version you use.

This is part of the parable Jesus taught about the spreading of the seed ( word ). Some will receive it and accept it, but then through troubles turn or fall away. So yes Jesus said you can fall away.

Mark 13:13 " And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endures to the end shall be saved. "

Here we have Jesus again talking saying you must endure to the end to be saved. You are not saved right away, you must continue to endure to the end, if you do not you will not be saved.

Then there is Paul in Hebrews 10:26 warning of continuing in willful sin after accepting Jesus. Also in Hebrews 6:6 Paul teaching of those who have fallen away.

These are just a few that show that you can continue to do wrong and turn and fall away.

1. James did not teach you can do this. He said you have not been saved if you do this ( a dead faith does not save you)\

2. Paul did not teach you can be saved and do this. He taught we are saved by faith and those saved will do works. They are new creatures in Christ.

3. Jesus did not teach yuo can be saved and do this. He said whoever believes in him is born again, and will be given the spirit of God to teach them all things concerning him.

4. Jude said people who do this were condemned before they were even born, turning the grace of God to lasciviousness.

5. John said a person who lives in sin has neither seen God, nor does he know God. and those born of God can not live in sin.

We must have different bibles?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Okay, I get what your saying. Your saying if they ARE living this way then the were never saved.

Again okay.

But sense we cannot go around looking into people's hearts, and knowing if they were ever saved or not saved, then shouldnt we being teaching that repentance and obedience is a MUST in order to go to heaven (not be saved if you dont want to put it that way) but we know if they live in sin, (weather they lose salvation -or they were never saved) they cannot go to heaven.

No.

Because when you add obedience, You add law. You add works. You add self into the equation and you take away from the work of God. And give you reason to boast about all the things you did to save yourself

I do not need to tell them they MUST OBEY, I just need to give them the gospel. The gospel has the power to save them. After they are saved (they have admitted they are a sinner, Admitted they are dead to God and separated from him, And admitted their only hope is Jesus based on HIS WORK. and trust God to keep his promise. Then God can work on their sin issues, and he promised he will do just that.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Matthew 13:21 " Yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles ( or falls away ). " Depending on which version you use.

Has no root. They were never saved my friend. Thats why they have no root.

This is part of the parable Jesus taught about the spreading of the seed ( word ). Some will receive it and accept it, but then through troubles turn or fall away. So yes Jesus said you can fall away.

No. They believes in it but they did not have faith in it. Thats why they fell away,

Again, Mere belief will not save you.

Why did you ignore all the passages I posted which say if you live in sin, You have never known God. Or you were condemned before you were even born.

do they not mean anything?

 

[feedm3]

No.

Because when you add obedience, You add law. You add works. You add self into the equation and you take away from the work of God. And give you reason to boast about all the things you did to save yourself

I do not need to tell them they MUST OBEY, I just need to give them the gospel. The gospel has the power to save them. After they are saved (they have admitted they are a sinner, Admitted they are dead to God and separated from him, And admitted their only hope is Jesus based on HIS WORK. and trust God to keep his promise. Then God can work on their sin issues, and he promised he will do just that.

Well if you teach one who lives in sin was never saved. Then the only conclusion from that is we MUST not live in sin to go to heaven.

Implying we MUST obey God to go to heaven.

EG you're smart enough to understand that. It's weird of you to even act like that if you tell someone by living in sin they were never saved (going to hell) it does not draw the conclusion one MUST not sin to go to heaven.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I have tried to show by Matthew 25 where it is a picture of some going before the judgment seat, and Jesus cast them out because they did not do for others.

It does not say they were not saved, or did not truly accept Christ, or anything about repentance. They were cast out for not doing for others. Why is this, it is because they believed in Jesus but did not believe in what Jesus said about esteeming others more then themselves, so in a way they denied Jesus by denying what He said.

Yes, some fell away, some never really even believed him - John 6:60-66.

Yet if we see somone living in sin, we have no idea if they were ever saved, or fell from grace by choosing to walk away from the staight and norrow and just on the road to destruction. We dont know these kinds of things.

EG insults people by saying if they believe they must obey God to be saved, then they trust in themselves and not the cross. Evil message!

He says our actions have nothing to do with being saved, it is strictly by our faith in the God's work of calvary.

Then he says, "if YOU are this WAY you were never saved".

Well if I choose to be some WAY (an action work of disobeedce) and it causes me to "have never been saved" then my Action directly effected my salavtion.

Which contradicts himself when he say nothing we do effects salvation. If that was true, being never saved, could not be a consequence of living a certian way. - because that is an action on our part.

So he wants to have his cake and eat too. He wants to try and keep OSAS and faith only, yet he does not want to do like the rest of the ones who want to be consistent and throw out the book of James, and John's epistles. Which him not doing that is the only thing I admire about him.

Yet him trying to reconcile what is taught in these letters, and hold on to OSAS causes him to teach a paradox.

Yet when you try to show him, he just says "your twisting my words" even though his words are quoted whenever I show his error and im not changing anything he says, he can see that.

So it is what it is

 

[feedm3]

Because when you add obedience, You add law. You add works. You add self into the equation

AHHHHH!!! LOL Dude!!! You to added "self into the equation" when you said "If YOU LIVE THIS WAY".

What the equation??

x+y=Salvation

x=GOd
y= the way you live<-----YOUR WORDS

So God and the WAY i live determines heaven or hell. Because if I choose the way of sin -God knew I would choose this and I was never saved

Thats the only way one could "have never been saved" is if God knew how you would live. Of course we do not kow if God makes this determination at this point, or if GOD chooses to reserve his foreknowledge until judgment day.

Yet either way = if YOU live this WAY you were NEVER SAVED put US right into the salvation equation.

And you know it does

But I know i twisted up your words, you didn't say that.