-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E
You do not go give someone an expensive gift, and say you did it because you loved them. Then after you give it to them, give them a list of rules and regulations they MUST follow or you will take that gift back. You will get the gift thrown in your face. and be called a liar. and a manipulator.
You give them that gift unconditionally based on your love for them (grace). They will appreciate it. And be grateful for the love you have shown them. Believe you me, when you need something, They will be there no questions asked.
You give them that gift unconditionally based on your love for them (grace). They will appreciate it. And be grateful for the love you have shown them. Believe you me, when you need something, They will be there no questions asked.
K
I do not ignore those verses. They apply to the willful sinner who continues with out remorse, conviction, and repentance. You are wrong on the other about the seed though cause look at the context. It says he has no root in himself, it does not say he has no root in his belief in Jesus. It is in himself ( doubt, confidence ), and when something happens in his life to shake his belief he falls instead of staying firm in his belief.
Has no root. They were never saved my friend. Thats why they have no root.
No. They believes in it but they did not have faith in it. Thats why they fell away,
Again, Mere belief will not save you.
Why did you ignore all the passages I posted which say if you live in sin, You have never known God. Or you were condemned before you were even born.
do they not mean anything?
No. They believes in it but they did not have faith in it. Thats why they fell away,
Again, Mere belief will not save you.
Why did you ignore all the passages I posted which say if you live in sin, You have never known God. Or you were condemned before you were even born.
do they not mean anything?
F
I have tried to show by Matthew 25 where it is a picture of some going before the judgment seat, and Jesus cast them out because they did not do for others.
It does not say they were not saved, or did not truly accept Christ, or anything about repentance. They were cast out for not doing for others. Why is this, it is because they believed in Jesus but did not believe in what Jesus said about esteeming others more then themselves, so in a way they denied Jesus by denying what He said.
It does not say they were not saved, or did not truly accept Christ, or anything about repentance. They were cast out for not doing for others. Why is this, it is because they believed in Jesus but did not believe in what Jesus said about esteeming others more then themselves, so in a way they denied Jesus by denying what He said.
I hope you do not think I believe people "were never saved". I use that term purposely for the sake of argument, in trying to get this guy to see what he is saying, and not get sidetracked on "having never been saved, or losing salvation".
Those passages are great. He will focus on "i never knew you" from Matt 7 to get around the people's actions haveing anything to do with it, even though the LORD could not be any plainer
Yet that is because God does not know sin. If you separte yourself from God, wil he remember you if he chooses not to?
Isa 59:1 Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
If we are separated from him, and will NOT hear us, and has hid his face, then if we stayed in the condition which caused Him to do this, could he correctly say, "depart i never knew you"?
Of course, you erased yourself from Him through sin.
Last edited by a moderator:
F
No. We listen to the word of God, and understand that anyone who lives in sin has never seen God nor known him. And thats all we need to know.
For by grace yuo have been saved (perfect tense) by faith. not of works.
what part of no works do you not comprehend?
What will those who are saved by grace not works do?
WORK.
Work did not save them. Their faith did. You want to add works. Sorry buddy, Not going to happen.
You do not want to give up your works do you? And you do not think you act like the pharisees??
No. I am not like you. Nor am I like the pharisees who did what you demand I do.
I am like Christ. I did not come to judge the world. I came to save it.
Your way is judging. and demanding work. That is not Gods way. period
For by grace yuo have been saved (perfect tense) by faith. not of works.
what part of no works do you not comprehend?
What will those who are saved by grace not works do?
WORK.
Work did not save them. Their faith did. You want to add works. Sorry buddy, Not going to happen.
You do not want to give up your works do you? And you do not think you act like the pharisees??
No. I am not like you. Nor am I like the pharisees who did what you demand I do.
I am like Christ. I did not come to judge the world. I came to save it.
Your way is judging. and demanding work. That is not Gods way. period
F
i tried to be un-insulting and just show you where your not making sense. You dont care, go on keep doing that, it just helps others defeat the false teaching that leads to contradiction.
BTW your confused about the obeience and works. Look up the Greek words for "works" in Eph 2, and "duty" in Luke 17:10
Ahh nevermind, like your really going to look anything up, you just want to believe what you believe no matter how much it does not make sense when you try to teach.
BTW your confused about the obeience and works. Look up the Greek words for "works" in Eph 2, and "duty" in Luke 17:10
Ahh nevermind, like your really going to look anything up, you just want to believe what you believe no matter how much it does not make sense when you try to teach.
E
I do not ignore those verses. They apply to the willful sinner who continues with out remorse, conviction, and repentance.
So what part of never been saved do you not understand?
You are wrong on the other about the seed though cause look at the context. It says he has no root in himself, it does not say he has no root in his belief in Jesus. It is in himself ( doubt, confidence ), and when something happens in his life to shake his belief he falls instead of staying firm in his belief.
This is what happened to the galation and hebrew church, they were returning to their jewish roots because they were persecuted by their families and friends, And since they did not have faith in God. they left.
A person who is rooted in Christ. does not have to worry about themselves or trust in self. Even when they stumble and fall. they will get back up and return to Christ. (even the prodigal son did this)
E
Okay then, so the WAY I live has nothign to do with me going to heaven? Since it would be adding works?
depends.
Are you living that way because God has
1. Saved you
2. Made you alive in him
3. Given you eternal (not conditional) life (made you who were dead in sin alive in Christ)
4. Given you the spirit in your heart as a guarantee of your salvation until the day of redemption.
5. When you stray, you are chastened by God and this brings you back to him
6. Given the understanding of the HS of what sin is, And WHY God does not want you to do certain things (which you can not comprehend as a non believer)
or are you doing it to
1. Get saved
3. Keep your salvation.
E
i tried to be un-insulting and just show you where your not making sense. You dont care, go on keep doing that, it just helps others defeat the false teaching that leads to contradiction.
I have tried to be nice. I have told you (nicely at first) many times why it does not make sense to you. Because your not listening to what I say. You keep wanting to talk about what happens AFTER a person gets saved, I am talking about HOW one gets saved.
if you mix the two up. It will NOT MAKE ANY SENSE. To ANYONE.
why do you think your gospel does NOT MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME ??
BTW your confused about the obeience and works. Look up the Greek words for "works" in Eph 2, and "duty" in Luke 17:10
Ahh nevermind, like your really going to look anything up, you just want to believe what you believe no matter how much it does not make sense when you try to teach.
Ahh nevermind, like your really going to look anything up, you just want to believe what you believe no matter how much it does not make sense when you try to teach.
To be obedient is no different than to be under law. It is following gods commands. You do this to be saved, Your working to earn your salvation.
A work is to EARN SOMETHING.
if your being OBEDIENT to earn salvation. Your working for it.
F
That is a "yes" or "no" question. There is no grey area.
Your acting as if I said something else.
Let me rephrase:
Does the way a person lives have any effect on me going to heaven or hell? yes or no?
Are you living that way because God has
1. Saved you
2. Made you alive in him
3. Given you eternal (not conditional) life (made you who were dead in sin alive in Christ)
4. Given you the spirit in your heart as a guarantee of your salvation until the day of redemption.
5. When you stray, you are chastened by God and this brings you back to him
6. Given the understanding of the HS of what sin is, And WHY God does not want you to do certain things (which you can not comprehend as a non believer)
1. Saved you
2. Made you alive in him
3. Given you eternal (not conditional) life (made you who were dead in sin alive in Christ)
4. Given you the spirit in your heart as a guarantee of your salvation until the day of redemption.
5. When you stray, you are chastened by God and this brings you back to him
6. Given the understanding of the HS of what sin is, And WHY God does not want you to do certain things (which you can not comprehend as a non believer)
am i "living that way because.." what way? I didn't say anything about a certain type of way.
Does the way a person lives have any effect on me going to heaven or hell? yes or no?
or are you doing it to
1. Get saved
3. Keep your salvation.
Does the way a person lives have any effect on me going to heaven or hell? yes or no?
Last edited by a moderator:
E
That is a "yes" or "no" question. There is no grey area.
Your acting as if I said something else.
I could not answer you. I had to ask you questions to determin if it was a yes or no answer.
Why do you always like to judge something instead of listening and figuring out what I meant?
And you wonder why people get so angry with you
Let me rephrase:
Out of all the denominational christian churches out there. Those are the only two beliefs which would or could apply to you (the other one is it does not matter if i sin or not. And I know that is not you. so why I did not ask that question)
If that is to hard for you. Then I can not give you an answer because I do not know what you believe.
F
I have tried to be nice. I have told you (nicely at first) many times why it does not make sense to you. Because your not listening to what I say. You keep wanting to talk about what happens AFTER a person gets saved, I am talking about HOW one gets saved.
if you mix the two up. It will NOT MAKE ANY SENSE. To ANYONE.
why do you think your gospel does NOT MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME ??
No I am not confused.
To be obedient is no different than to be under law. It is following gods commands. You do this to be saved, Your working to earn your salvation.
A work is to EARN SOMETHING.
if your being OBEDIENT to earn salvation. Your working for it.
How can YOU tell me where my heart is? How can you say someone is trying to EARN making a JUDGMENT that you preach against, even though their is no way you know where a person's heart is at in his/her obedience to God.
So your telling me YOU know because of what I derive from scripture, that I do NOT obey because I love God, revere HIm, appreciate Him, etc. You Know I am just trying to earn my salvation as if I will deserve it in the end.
So you know my heart huh? Well you did say "i am like Christ" I guess you take that too far.
And you JUST SAID "judge not lest ye be judged" and here you sit judging the Motives of my heart in my obedience to God (of all things to be judging..wow) which is something ONLY GOD KNOWS
Hypocritical isn't it?
K
Eternally-gratefull yes it says that, but once again your context or understanding in that verse is wrong. It does not mean that they do not all believe He exists. It is about they do not believe or have faith in what He can do as well. Examples: Satan believes in God, demons believe in God, even angels believe in God. What does the scriptures say about these well; well it says satan fell and so did a third of the angels with him. The scripture then turn and show we are no different, we can fall as well and stop having trust in God.
There are those who never believe or trust in God, and then there are those who do believe and trust in God but then fall away. The concept of falling away is mentioned through out the bible from the old testament to the new. Which is why I find it so hard for some to not see that some one can fall away.
There are those who never believe or trust in God, and then there are those who do believe and trust in God but then fall away. The concept of falling away is mentioned through out the bible from the old testament to the new. Which is why I find it so hard for some to not see that some one can fall away.
E
How can YOU tell me where my heart is? How can you say someone is trying to EARN making a JUDGMENT that you preach against, even though their is no way you know where a person's heart is at in his/her obedience to God.
So your telling me YOU know because of what I derive from scripture, that I do NOT obey because I love God, revere HIm, appreciate Him, etc. You Know I am just trying to earn my salvation as if I will deserve it in the end.
So you know my heart huh? Well you did say "i am like Christ" I guess you take that too far.
And you JUST SAID "judge not lest ye be judged" and here you sit judging the Motives of my heart in my obedience to God (of all things to be judging..wow) which is something ONLY GOD KNOWS
Hypocritical isn't it?
being hypocritical is being explained to over and over that I am not talking about what happens AFTER one is Saved, and you CONTINUALLY wanting to ask the same questions concerning that. Then saying you do not understand why your confused about what I say and believe, and getting MAD when someone (for the umpteenth time) tries to explain it to you.
E
Eternally-gratefull yes it says that, but once again your context or understanding in that verse is wrong. It does not mean that they do not all believe He exists. It is about they do not believe or have faith in what He can do as well.
Examples: Satan believes in God, demons believe in God, even angels believe in God. What does the scriptures say about these well; well it says satan fell and so did a third of the angels with him. The scripture then turn and show we are no different, we can fall as well and stop having trust in God.
There are those who never believe or trust in God, and then there are those who do believe and trust in God but then fall away. The concept of falling away is mentioned through out the bible from the old testament to the new. Which is why I find it so hard for some to not see that some one can fall away.
Examples: Satan believes in God, demons believe in God, even angels believe in God. What does the scriptures say about these well; well it says satan fell and so did a third of the angels with him. The scripture then turn and show we are no different, we can fall as well and stop having trust in God.
There are those who never believe or trust in God, and then there are those who do believe and trust in God but then fall away. The concept of falling away is mentioned through out the bible from the old testament to the new. Which is why I find it so hard for some to not see that some one can fall away.
But james said just believing they exist will not save anyone Their faith is dead. These people did not work. they walked away, their faith is dead. (no faith, no salvation)
see how scripture compliments itself. and helps us understand two differing passages written by two different people years apart? And it becomes one word )the logos)
And again, Why do you ignore what John and Jude said. is there a reason you do not wish to talk about them plainly saying they were NEVER SAVED?
F
I could not answer you. I had to ask you questions to determin if it was a yes or no answer.
Why do you always like to judge something instead of listening and figuring out what I meant?
And you wonder why people get so angry with you
I can not give you a yes or no answer until you answer which of the two people or belief system you have.
Out of all the denominational christian churches out there. Those are the only two beliefs which would or could apply to you (the other one is it does not matter if i sin or not. And I know that is not you. so why I did not ask that question)
If that is to hard for you. Then I can not give you an answer because I do not know what you believe.
Man that question is the most general question anyone can ask. you should not need to KNOW anything in order to answer it.
Give the same answer you would give if a new member of you church asked you this question.
Why would you need to know what I believe if Im asking you this simple yes no question.
I dont even want your answer anymore, you JUST KNOW YOU CANT ANSWER with yes or no, because you will contradict something else you said.
Here I can answer easy: Yes your actions effect you place in heaven or hell.
You already know what I believe lol. I dont have to hide from any question, because my belief is what the Bible teaches.
The bible does not contradict itself, so in believing what it says, I never contradict myself, and with that confidence I have in God, I NEVER have to run or dance around any question.
BTW you are not a very good dancer. It's a great thing to be a part of the truth. Im telling you
F
No
being hypocritical is being explained to over and over that I am not talking about what happens AFTER one is Saved, and you CONTINUALLY wanting to ask the same questions concerning that. Then saying you do not understand why your confused about what I say and believe, and getting MAD when someone (for the umpteenth time) tries to explain it to you.
being hypocritical is being explained to over and over that I am not talking about what happens AFTER one is Saved, and you CONTINUALLY wanting to ask the same questions concerning that. Then saying you do not understand why your confused about what I say and believe, and getting MAD when someone (for the umpteenth time) tries to explain it to you.
Now you wont even admit your wrong in slandering good people who want to obey - whcih shows an evil pride from a false doctrine.
I hope you change man, I seriously fear for you, im not just saying that.
E
Man that question is the most general question anyone can ask. you should not need to KNOW anything in order to answer it.
typical response of someone who is afraid to answer the question.
How can I answer a question if I do not know?? (Actually I do know. I just want you to admit it)
Give the same answer you would give if a new member of you church asked you this question.
If I just said yes or not (especially to a new believer, or someone who does not know God yet_ and they disagree, I would immediately lose them, and our discussion would be over. or they would judge me. (Jesus answered questions with questions all the time for the same reason. where do you think I learned it from)
Why would you need to know what I believe if Im asking you this simple yes no question.
E
So when this happens, you get Godly powers and can see into the heart of man, and know his motives for why he is obeying?
Now you wont even admit your wrong in slandering good people who want to obey - whcih shows an evil pride from a false doctrine.
I hope you change man, I seriously fear for you, im not just saying that.
Now you wont even admit your wrong in slandering good people who want to obey - whcih shows an evil pride from a false doctrine.
I hope you change man, I seriously fear for you, im not just saying that.
I pray you find the freedom and security I have found.
K
I do not ignore what they say, but I do study the whole context of scriptures and not go by one scripture or a group of scriptures. There is a well known saying, " use scripture to interpret scripture. " It is a good saying cause you must go by the whole to get the full meaning. John for one also said if you do not keep and follow His commandments the truth is not in you. John also says that we must work diligently so that we do not lose what we are working for.
Yes I do understand that, And agree with you.
But james said just believing they exist will not save anyone Their faith is dead. These people did not work. they walked away, their faith is dead. (no faith, no salvation)
see how scripture compliments itself. and helps us understand two differing passages written by two different people years apart? And it becomes one word )the logos)
And again, Why do you ignore what John and Jude said. is there a reason you do not wish to talk about them plainly saying they were NEVER SAVED?
But james said just believing they exist will not save anyone Their faith is dead. These people did not work. they walked away, their faith is dead. (no faith, no salvation)
see how scripture compliments itself. and helps us understand two differing passages written by two different people years apart? And it becomes one word )the logos)
And again, Why do you ignore what John and Jude said. is there a reason you do not wish to talk about them plainly saying they were NEVER SAVED?