Once saved always saved?
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Some of your confusion is stemming from using the wrong version of the bible. The version I use says "Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for "ISRAEL" (Jacob's changed name, Gen 32:28, Jacob, representing God's elect, Rom 9:11) even calling them brethren. that they may be delivered (saved) from their ignorance of the righteousness of God. (verse 3)
Rom 10:2, For I bear them record that they "have a zeal of God"signifying that they have been born again,
When are you going to admit that salvation is "a deliverance" which would create in you a better understanding of the scriptures, and do away with your thinking that the unregenerate person can understand the things of the Spirit.
The mind of the unregenerate person is governed by the flesh. 1 Cor 2:11, For what man knoweth the things of man, save the spirit of man, which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. If the unregenerate person does not have the Spirit of God dwelling in him, he cannot know the things of the Spirit, as verse 14 indicates.
Respectfully, I base all of my comments on scripture reference, believing that scripture proves themselves by harmonizing together.
You have quoted 2 Pet 3:9. In order to keep this scripture in context, we have tom go back to 2 Pet 1:1 to see who Peter is talking to, and it is to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God.
Peter is giving them a warning about repenting when they have committed a sin, instructing them that they would lose their fellowship with God, temporary, until they repent. Persh = death = separation.
Peter even includes himself by using the word "us-ward". God will not fellowship sin, he even turned his back on Jesus during the three hours of darkness on the cross when he bore the sins of those that God gave him.
You have quoted 2 Pet 3:9. In order to keep this scripture in context, we have tom go back to 2 Pet 1:1 to see who Peter is talking to, and it is to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God.
Peter is giving them a warning about repenting when they have committed a sin, instructing them that they would lose their fellowship with God, temporary, until they repent. Persh = death = separation.
Peter even includes himself by using the word "us-ward". God will not fellowship sin, he even turned his back on Jesus during the three hours of darkness on the cross when he bore the sins of those that God gave him.
Jesus did say that, but that's talking about your past sins, not your future sins, you still living. Now Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2 :36-38). And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past.
I see you using Jesus over Paul writing, but then when I show when Jesus says if you love me keep my Commandments, then it will be a problem with that. Jesus says (Matt. 7:21-23) (v.21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father, which is in heaven. You mean you must do more than call on the name of the Lord to enter into the kingdom of heaven? (Which will be set up on this earth)? (v.22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? (v.23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Now this is not the harlot, the thief, or the murder, these are religious people; some had the power to cast out devils. And what did they put before the Lord? Their works! It’s obvious that their iniquity overrode their wonderful works. But they put their works on the table before the Lord, that’s what you are going to be judged by, your works!
Hi Phil. Sorry for the delayed response. So as for treasury of merits, it comes under Our Lord telling us to store Treasures in Heaven. As for individual Merits/Rewards for Good Works done Post-Justification, Catholics believe it is strictly personal, and cannot be transferred to others; according to "every man shall receive his own reward, according to his own labour" (1 Cor 3:8). But as it is said in that same chapter, not everyone receives the reward immediately; some receive it, because their works survived the fire. Others will have to go through the fire, suffer loss, forfeit rewards and be "saved so as by fire. "13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."
This fire has traditionally been understood as purgatory; that's how St. Augustine for e.g. interprets it, and for remaining venial sins. It's why we believe those whose sanctification is not complete on earth will have to complete it there. I know that's controversial, and probably the majority here disagree. That's ok. But I'm just trying to explain the way we see it.
What can benefit or help others are prayers said for them, which Christ accepts and can release them from Prison earlier. In 1 Pet 3-19-20 and 1 Pet 4:6, the Apostle says Christ went in Spirit after His Death and preached to some spirits in Prison. Would He have preached uselessly to those hopelessly lost? I don't think so. Rather, He preached to those who had some possibility of salvation, which means that prison of spirits was a temporal prison, purgatory, not an eternal prison, hell. In 2 Tim 1:16-18, Apostle Paul prays for Onesiphorus, his departed believing friend: "18 The Lord grant to him that he may find mercy from the Lord in that Day—and you know very well how many ways he ministered to me at Ephesus."
And the more merits/rewards you have earned in your Christian Life, the more efficacious/powerful your prayers are for others, according to James 5:16: "The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much."
We believe prayers for the departed can hasten their entrance into their eternal reward, and speed up the process of their sanctification, but they cannot increase the reward. Hope that answers your question. God Bless.
Free Grace, will respond to you subsequently. God Bless.
This fire has traditionally been understood as purgatory; that's how St. Augustine for e.g. interprets it, and for remaining venial sins. It's why we believe those whose sanctification is not complete on earth will have to complete it there. I know that's controversial, and probably the majority here disagree. That's ok. But I'm just trying to explain the way we see it.
What can benefit or help others are prayers said for them, which Christ accepts and can release them from Prison earlier. In 1 Pet 3-19-20 and 1 Pet 4:6, the Apostle says Christ went in Spirit after His Death and preached to some spirits in Prison. Would He have preached uselessly to those hopelessly lost? I don't think so. Rather, He preached to those who had some possibility of salvation, which means that prison of spirits was a temporal prison, purgatory, not an eternal prison, hell. In 2 Tim 1:16-18, Apostle Paul prays for Onesiphorus, his departed believing friend: "18 The Lord grant to him that he may find mercy from the Lord in that Day—and you know very well how many ways he ministered to me at Ephesus."
And the more merits/rewards you have earned in your Christian Life, the more efficacious/powerful your prayers are for others, according to James 5:16: "The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much."
We believe prayers for the departed can hasten their entrance into their eternal reward, and speed up the process of their sanctification, but they cannot increase the reward. Hope that answers your question. God Bless.
Free Grace, will respond to you subsequently. God Bless.
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FreeGrace2 said:
Your theology is just weird. And not found anywhere in the Bible.
Basically, what you are saying is that your "interpretation" is superior to those who disagree with you and quote verses that are crystal clear.
Hogwash. You may think you are an elitist, but you are not.
2 Cor 1;13,14
13 For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand. And I hope that, 14 as you have understood us in part, you will come to understand fully that you can boast of us just as we will boast of you in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Your opinions do not align with Scripture.
Your theology is just weird. And not found anywhere in the Bible.
Basically, what you are saying is that your "interpretation" is superior to those who disagree with you and quote verses that are crystal clear.
Hogwash. You may think you are an elitist, but you are not.
2 Cor 1;13,14
13 For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand. And I hope that, 14 as you have understood us in part, you will come to understand fully that you can boast of us just as we will boast of you in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Your opinions do not align with Scripture.
FreeGrace2 said:
Your posts seem to negate any need for belief in the Savior.
How about that! You agree with me. However, the new birth FOLLOWS the trust issue of the gospel.
Unlike yourself, I can prove what I claim.
Eph 2:5 equates "being made alive" with "being saved". They are synonymous terms.
Eph 2:8 says we are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH. iow, the faith is present before salvation and regeneration.
No need to keep repeating your erroneous talking points. The gospel is a trust issue, not a spiritual issue.
How come you CANNOT find ANY verse in the Bible that says what you keep claiming??
Your posts seem to negate any need for belief in the Savior.
How about that! You agree with me. However, the new birth FOLLOWS the trust issue of the gospel.
Unlike yourself, I can prove what I claim.
Eph 2:5 equates "being made alive" with "being saved". They are synonymous terms.
Eph 2:8 says we are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH. iow, the faith is present before salvation and regeneration.
No need to keep repeating your erroneous talking points. The gospel is a trust issue, not a spiritual issue.
How come you CANNOT find ANY verse in the Bible that says what you keep claiming??
FreeGrace2 said:
I GAVE you the verse that actually SAYS that. So don't say "as you say". The BIBLE says it.
Good of you to finally admit what the Bible says.
There goes your weird and unbiblical ideas. Your claims remain unprovable. This is just an excuse to push your nonbiblical agenda.
I GAVE you the verse that actually SAYS that. So don't say "as you say". The BIBLE says it.
Good of you to finally admit what the Bible says.
There goes your weird and unbiblical ideas. Your claims remain unprovable. This is just an excuse to push your nonbiblical agenda.
FreeGrace2 said:
Nope. None of the verses are about loss of salvation.
I'm not confused at all. You are, by taking clear verses about eternal soul salvation and twisting into something they don't say.
And Heb 11 proves MY point, not yours.
Nope. None of the verses are about loss of salvation.
I'm not confused at all. You are, by taking clear verses about eternal soul salvation and twisting into something they don't say.
And Heb 11 proves MY point, not yours.
FreeGrace2 said:
This is not the way one's sins are blotted out. They are blotted out (paid for) by Christ's death on the cross. But you obviously don't believe that.
Like ALL 5 point calvinists, you are simply unable to grasp the fact that salvation is for all who trust in the promise of salvation through the work of Jesus Christ on the cross.
You erroneously think that His death saves, when there is NO such verse to support your claim.
Actually, it doesn't harmonize with your deluded ideas.
If my thought is really contradictory to Scripture, that would mean there is at least 1 verse that actually says what you claim,
So, quote it. Prove your claims.
This is not the way one's sins are blotted out. They are blotted out (paid for) by Christ's death on the cross. But you obviously don't believe that.
Like ALL 5 point calvinists, you are simply unable to grasp the fact that salvation is for all who trust in the promise of salvation through the work of Jesus Christ on the cross.
You erroneously think that His death saves, when there is NO such verse to support your claim.
Actually, it doesn't harmonize with your deluded ideas.
If my thought is really contradictory to Scripture, that would mean there is at least 1 verse that actually says what you claim,
So, quote it. Prove your claims.
FreeGrace2 said:
The biblical term is eternal soul salvation. You need to learn that.
And eternal soul salvation means eternal soul deliverance from the LOF.
The biblical term is eternal soul salvation. You need to learn that.
And eternal soul salvation means eternal soul deliverance from the LOF.
FreeGrace2 said:
OK, deliverance from WHAT? Specfically.
This is a pathetic answer. You completely ignored the context.
Rom 10-
1 Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved.
2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge.
3 Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness.
4 Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
In v.1 Paul was concerned for their souls, not being physically delivered from sojourning on earth.
In v.3 Paul explained that the Jews made up their own rules by claiming the Law would save them if they obeyed it.
In v.4, the "righteousness" that is for everyone who BELIEVES is eternal soul salvation, which you keep denying.
OK, deliverance from WHAT? Specfically.
This is a pathetic answer. You completely ignored the context.
Rom 10-
1 Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved.
2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge.
3 Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness.
4 Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
In v.1 Paul was concerned for their souls, not being physically delivered from sojourning on earth.
In v.3 Paul explained that the Jews made up their own rules by claiming the Law would save them if they obeyed it.
In v.4, the "righteousness" that is for everyone who BELIEVES is eternal soul salvation, which you keep denying.
You are just full of excuses today, aren't you. Nonsense. Go to biblehub.com and see ALL of the English translations and report back.
Who says your "version" is accurate. I just quoted it.
Rom 10:2, For I bear them record that they "have a zeal of God"signifying that they have been born again, [/QUOTE]
Then YOUR version is wrong. Get rid of it and find an accurate one.
That's never what any verse means. Ever.
btw, there are just as many verses that link belief with eternal life as with salvation. That alone destroys your theories.
Since the gospel promise is a trust issue, rather than a spiritual issue, your comments are in error.
Who says your "version" is accurate. I just quoted it.
Rom 10:2, For I bear them record that they "have a zeal of God"signifying that they have been born again, [/QUOTE]
Then YOUR version is wrong. Get rid of it and find an accurate one.
That's never what any verse means. Ever.
btw, there are just as many verses that link belief with eternal life as with salvation. That alone destroys your theories.
Since the gospel promise is a trust issue, rather than a spiritual issue, your comments are in error.
That's good. We agree (1) God disciplines those believers who neglect sanctification/commit sins/do bad works. and (2) God rewards those believers who pursue sanctification/avoid sins/do good works.
Now, can I have your exegesis of 1 Cor 3:13-15 which I cited above: "13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." What is Paul talking about by "fire"?
Nope: "And the Lord will deliver me from every evil work and preserve me for His heavenly kingdom. To Him be glory forever and ever. Amen!" (2 Tim 4:18) Being preserved in justifying grace until the end is the Work of God, just like faith itself (cf. Jn 6:29) and thus is a Pure Grace, unearned/unmerited. What we have to do is ask God to grant that grace to us daily, as we do in the Lord's Prayer, when we ask to not be led into temptation, which gift, if it is granted, will preserve us in God's Grace. If we neglect to pray, it may not be granted, and then we will fall into temptation, sin gravely and fall away.
Salvation is NOT equal to Justification Alone. You believe that, but Heb 10 which I quoted and many passages negate it.
Nothing to disagree with here.
This applies to those who receive the Gift of Perseverance. They do not fall away, because Christ preserves them; that's what it means that they are not plucked out of His Hand; those who fall away are not in His hand and don't have that Gift.
No, Heb 10 is saying in the OT, there was physical death; but now in the NT, if we despise the Blood of Christ, which sanctified us, we have to fear eternal death, which disproves OSAS once and for all.
Did you answer the example from the Gospel I gave earlier; I don't think so. Here it is again.
Mat 18:27: "27Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt."
Mat 18:34: "34And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him."
Truly Justified, but not Saved. How much clearer can it be that the Two are Distinct? 1 single counterexample disproves it.
Explain why. The verse says those who fall away draw back to perdition. It's crystal clear and it negates your theory
Disagree. Even Calvinist OSASers know unrepentant atheists, apostates, satanists etc who once said a 30 sec sinner's prayer, are not saved, and they are right about that. These atheists can be justified and saved if they come back to faith in Christ, confess and repent of their apostasy etc, according to 1 Jn 1: "8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."
Wrong. Those sheep who (1) follow Him, (2) "know" Him, which means continual communion/fellowship with Him, and (3) listen to His Voice (which means, obey His commands; He even said those who do not obey His commands do not love Him; can those be saved who do not love Jesus Christ? Please. and those who obey His commands abide in Him and He in them) are granted both Justification and Perseverance; that is what it means that no one snatches them out of His hand, they have the gift to endure or persevere to the end, which means they never fall away. Those who do those things are saved. In 2 Pet 1:5-11, the Apostle gives us similar advice and says: "If you do these things, you will never stumble"
God Bless.
Now, can I have your exegesis of 1 Cor 3:13-15 which I cited above: "13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." What is Paul talking about by "fire"?
Nope: "And the Lord will deliver me from every evil work and preserve me for His heavenly kingdom. To Him be glory forever and ever. Amen!" (2 Tim 4:18) Being preserved in justifying grace until the end is the Work of God, just like faith itself (cf. Jn 6:29) and thus is a Pure Grace, unearned/unmerited. What we have to do is ask God to grant that grace to us daily, as we do in the Lord's Prayer, when we ask to not be led into temptation, which gift, if it is granted, will preserve us in God's Grace. If we neglect to pray, it may not be granted, and then we will fall into temptation, sin gravely and fall away.
Salvation is NOT equal to Justification Alone. You believe that, but Heb 10 which I quoted and many passages negate it.
Nothing to disagree with here.
This applies to those who receive the Gift of Perseverance. They do not fall away, because Christ preserves them; that's what it means that they are not plucked out of His Hand; those who fall away are not in His hand and don't have that Gift.
No, Heb 10 is saying in the OT, there was physical death; but now in the NT, if we despise the Blood of Christ, which sanctified us, we have to fear eternal death, which disproves OSAS once and for all.
Did you answer the example from the Gospel I gave earlier; I don't think so. Here it is again.
Mat 18:27: "27Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt."
Mat 18:34: "34And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him."
Truly Justified, but not Saved. How much clearer can it be that the Two are Distinct? 1 single counterexample disproves it.
Explain why. The verse says those who fall away draw back to perdition. It's crystal clear and it negates your theory
Disagree. Even Calvinist OSASers know unrepentant atheists, apostates, satanists etc who once said a 30 sec sinner's prayer, are not saved, and they are right about that. These atheists can be justified and saved if they come back to faith in Christ, confess and repent of their apostasy etc, according to 1 Jn 1: "8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."
Wrong. Those sheep who (1) follow Him, (2) "know" Him, which means continual communion/fellowship with Him, and (3) listen to His Voice (which means, obey His commands; He even said those who do not obey His commands do not love Him; can those be saved who do not love Jesus Christ? Please. and those who obey His commands abide in Him and He in them) are granted both Justification and Perseverance; that is what it means that no one snatches them out of His hand, they have the gift to endure or persevere to the end, which means they never fall away. Those who do those things are saved. In 2 Pet 1:5-11, the Apostle gives us similar advice and says: "If you do these things, you will never stumble"
God Bless.
Most people know what John 3:15&16 say but I want to back up to the start of chapter 3.
1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs You are doing if God were not with him.”
Nicodemus was a Pharisee not a priest but a religious ruler meaning if there was a question about the religious law people would go to them to answer it. He was one of the big wigs at the temple downtown. He comes to Jesus by night so that no one would see him. He lays a line of praise on Jesus. Jesus brushes it off and says.
3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God
Jesus blows off the high praise and complements and get right to the main point. You must be born again.
4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Ol Nicodemus did not understand what He was talking about; some Christians today do not understand this. Born of the water, born of woman, born of the womb, born of flesh. The first birth not water baptism. Then we grow up and hit the age of accountability. When is that? It is different for everyone and some never reach it. When you do you have to make a decision team Satan(flesh) team Jesus(spirit). Then Jesus looks at him and says “ Marvel not” do not be surprised that you must be born again. Jesus then explains how the spirit works He compares it to the wind you can not see it but you feel it, you see the works of it when it gently blows the leaves; or when it gets going and blows down trees ect.
Strong's Greek 4151: Wind, breath, spirit.
9Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Part 2 to follow
1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs You are doing if God were not with him.”
Nicodemus was a Pharisee not a priest but a religious ruler meaning if there was a question about the religious law people would go to them to answer it. He was one of the big wigs at the temple downtown. He comes to Jesus by night so that no one would see him. He lays a line of praise on Jesus. Jesus brushes it off and says.
3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God
Jesus blows off the high praise and complements and get right to the main point. You must be born again.
4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Ol Nicodemus did not understand what He was talking about; some Christians today do not understand this. Born of the water, born of woman, born of the womb, born of flesh. The first birth not water baptism. Then we grow up and hit the age of accountability. When is that? It is different for everyone and some never reach it. When you do you have to make a decision team Satan(flesh) team Jesus(spirit). Then Jesus looks at him and says “ Marvel not” do not be surprised that you must be born again. Jesus then explains how the spirit works He compares it to the wind you can not see it but you feel it, you see the works of it when it gently blows the leaves; or when it gets going and blows down trees ect.
Strong's Greek 4151: Wind, breath, spirit.
9Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Part 2 to follow
Inheritance in this.. is about rewards.. those who have built on the fath.. been faithful have greater rewards than those who were saved and then got in the cares of this world. Why? Because scripture does not contradict itself.. compare Galatians 5 with John 3:16, 3:36 and 5:24. And also in Corinthians - building on your faith with good and silver.. it is refined in the fire and remains.. building on your faith with straw, hay stubble.. it is burned away.. but still they are saved.