Once saved always saved?

[Thewatchman]

FreeGrace2 said:
Go ahead and prove your opinion here with clear Scripture that obviously communicates what you opine.

You also obviously are oblivious to what Jesus taught about eternal life.

From John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:40,47 believers possess eternal life.
From John 10:28, recipients (believers) of eternal life shall never perish.

Too bad you either didn't know what Jesus taught, or you are aware of these verses but have chosen to reject them as truth.

Since Jesus paid the debt for all sin, no sin puts anyone into the LOF. For those who didn't receive the gift of eternal life (their choice), they have NO OTHER PLACE for them to go.

Still unable to address the verses I cite and have been quoting, I see.

And I understand WHY you won't. You can't refute clear Scripture.

So please save your false teaching for someone else.

Part 2

15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

I like the Berean Standard Translation better.

that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life.

May Have you have to put that believe into action in your live every day. (you will see that in the definitions)


Nicodemus is lost he is standing there shaking his head. Jesus says you are a ruler, a leader and you can not understand something this simple. We tell you about all that we have seen and you don't believe us you do not receive our witness. Verse 12 is very important. Jesus is going to tell us how He teaches; listen up and pay attention.

If I have told you earthly things: Jesus uses the natural things (the wind) to help us understand spiritual things. Ex. The parables, a sower, a seed, the wind, ETC. to help us grasp spiritual things. A man must first be born of woman before you can be born of the spirit. Jesus is going to explain to Nicodemus about his death in a way he should understand it. Numbers 21:4-9 The people were sinning again and God sent serpents and if they bit you you died. There sin caused them death. Moses asks God to stop and save the people. God tells Moses to take a bronze pole and put a bronze serpent on it hold it up and if the people looked at it they would be saved from the serpent. That is the same serpent on the pole and serpent the Dr. has.

Jesus was telling Nicodemus just how He was going to die.

Webster Dictionary

Believe

believed; believing

transitive verb

1a

:to consider to be true or honest

b:to accept the word or evidence of someone

2:to hold as an opinion:SUPPOSE

intransitive verb

1a: to accept something as true, genuine, or real

to have a firm or wholehearted religious conviction or persuasion:to regard the existence of God as a fact—usually used with believe in scriptures

2:to have a firm conviction as to the goodness, efficacy, or ability of something

I believe in God

Strong's 4100

believes
Verb - Present Participle Active - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 4100: From pistis; to have faith, i.e. Credit; by implication, to entrust.



Verse 16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

There is that word again BELIEVE.

I believe I will have me a hot dog today and I may, probably, kinda should believe in “jesus” today it is Sunday.

That is the proper use of believe but that is not the kind of believe that Jesus is talking about. He is talking about putting your full trust, hope, life in His hands, every day, depending on Him to take care of you. Not just the big things like Jesus I just had a hart attack I need Your help. The little things Jesus help me to reflect you light, help me to walk in your ways today, help me to see ways I can show your love and kindness it may be helping someone at the store get something off a shelf, or putting helping put there bags in the car and just sating Have a Blessed Day. That may open the door for you to witness to them, maybe you being kind to them will make them refocus there life back on Jesus. They may have walked away.

I heard a true story some time back from a former youth pastor. He and his wife finished up a youth meeting parents came kids were all gone they thought. There was one girl that went up on the roof and they thought she had gone home. Home life was not good for her; her mom and dad were fighting there was no love in the house. She was waiting for the pastor and his wife to leave so she could jump off and kill herself. As the couple got to the car the pastor opened the door for his wife and gave her a kiss. That simple act of love and kindness caused he to call out to them and ended up saving her life in 2 ways she got help and found love at her church and in some others it also saved her eternal life. She had excepted Jesus she was at the age of accountability had she killed herself who knows what would have happened to her in eternity Only God. Sin big ones and little one have consequences. To many and your name could be blotted out.

Revelation 3
Message to the Church in Sardis

1And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. 2Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. 3Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. 4Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.5He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. 6He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

The 7 churches represent the churches of then and today. Could be in a church like the church of Sardis, Could you be in danger of having your name blotted out.

He that has an ear let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

I hope this helps you understand a little better and I will get into the other verses later today or tomorrow.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

https://activechristianity.org/7-extraordinary-promises-for-those-who-overcome

The 2nd extraordinary promise: You will not be hurt by the second death
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.” Revelation 2:11.

It is clear that, to avoid the lake of fire or the second death, we are called and commanded both to believe and to overcome, which we can do by His Grace. "I can do all things through Christ Who strengthens me" as Paul says so you and I can and should overcome. Neither, without God's Grace, are we able to overcome, nor with His Grace, are we unable.

“He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.”

Again, those who do not overcome can be blotted out from the Book of Life; those who overcome will not be blotted out.

“To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.”

As Christ Himself overcame, so also we, His believers/disciples/followers are called to do the same, to go to His Throne.

God Bless.

 

[phil36]

Hi Phil. Sorry for the delayed response. So as for treasury of merits, it comes under Our Lord telling us to store Treasures in Heaven. As for individual Merits/Rewards for Good Works done Post-Justification, Catholics believe it is strictly personal, and cannot be transferred to others; according to "every man shall receive his own reward, according to his own labour" (1 Cor 3:8). But as it is said in that same chapter, not everyone receives the reward immediately; some receive it, because their works survived the fire. Others will have to go through the fire, suffer loss, forfeit rewards and be "saved so as by fire. "13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

This fire has traditionally been understood as purgatory; that's how St. Augustine for e.g. interprets it, and for remaining venial sins. It's why we believe those whose sanctification is not complete on earth will have to complete it there. I know that's controversial, and probably the majority here disagree. That's ok. But I'm just trying to explain the way we see it.

What can benefit or help others are prayers said for them, which Christ accepts and can release them from Prison earlier. In 1 Pet 3-19-20 and 1 Pet 4:6, the Apostle says Christ went in Spirit after His Death and preached to some spirits in Prison. Would He have preached uselessly to those hopelessly lost? I don't think so. Rather, He preached to those who had some possibility of salvation, which means that prison of spirits was a temporal prison, purgatory, not an eternal prison, hell. In 2 Tim 1:16-18, Apostle Paul prays for Onesiphorus, his departed believing friend: "18 The Lord grant to him that he may find mercy from the Lord in that Day—and you know very well how many ways he ministered to me at Ephesus."

And the more merits/rewards you have earned in your Christian Life, the more efficacious/powerful your prayers are for others, according to James 5:16: "The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much."

We believe prayers for the departed can hasten their entrance into their eternal reward, and speed up the process of their sanctification, but they cannot increase the reward. Hope that answers your question. God Bless.

Free Grace, will respond to you subsequently. God Bless.

Hi Xavier,

Thanks for the reply. I'm kind of confused at what your saying:

As for individual Merits/Rewards for Good Works done Post-Justification, Catholics believe it is strictly personal, and cannot be transferred to others; according to "every man shall receive his own reward, according to his own labour

Can you explain when or what is post-justification. It would be helpful if you could also say what is the instrumental cause of Justification (for an individual) in your view and when does post-justification occur.

Many thanks.

 

[FreeGrace2]

That's good. We agree (1) God disciplines those believers who neglect sanctification/commit sins/do bad works. and (2) God rewards those believers who pursue sanctification/avoid sins/do good works.

Now, can I have your exegesis of 1 Cor 3:13-15 which I cited above: "13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." What is Paul talking about by "fire"?

Great question!

v.13 - every believers efforts/works will be obvious at the Bema, or Judgment Seat of Christ. 2 Cot 5:10
v.14 - if a believer's works survive the "fire" he will be rewarded.
v.15 - the fire refers to God's evaluation, and if a believer's works don't survive the fire (judgment) those works will be burned up. But notice the BUT. While the believer suffers the LOSS of reward (v.14) "he himself shall be saved".

So, even believers whose works (all of them) don't survive the fire of God's evaluation, he himself shall be saved.

That means EVEN non-productive believers shall himself be saved, in spite of loss of all reward.

I said:
"You just shot yourself in the foot by adding perseverance. That is an effort on our part. So you DO believe in salvation by works, whether you realize that or not."

Nope: "And the Lord will deliver me from every evil work and preserve me for Hi hs heavenly kingdom. To Him be glory forever and ever. Amen!" (2 Tim 4:18) Being preserved in justifying grace until the end is the Work of God, just like faith itself (cf. Jn 6:29) and thus is a Pure Grace, unearned/unmerited.

You misunderstand. 2 Tim 4:18 is about God preserving the believer. That's eternal security. Perseverance is on our part, to keep the faith, etc. Preservation and perseverance are totally different things.

No one is saved by perseverance. See my comments above. The believer whose works are all burned up didn't persevere, yet he himself shall be saved.

Salvation is NOT equal to Justification Alone.

It is.

You believe that, but Heb 10 which I quoted and many passages negate it.

Please don't give me a whole chapter. Give me specific verses that actually SAY what you are thinking about. What you quoted from Heb 10 DID NOT negate the fact that salvation and justification are synonymous.

I said:
"Do you need help understanding John 10:28? He sure did say that. He said, "I give them (believers) eternal life, and they shall never perish". It couldn't be any more clear, but apparently you aren't understanding His simple words."

This applies to those who receive the Gift of Perseverance.

Where did you get this from? Certainly NOT the Bible. And what is this "gift of perseverance"? Where does the Bible teach it?

They do not fall away, because Christ preserves them; that's what it means that they are not plucked out of His Hand; those who fall away are not in His hand and don't have that Gift.

You have really destroyed the clear and simple message of John 10:28. Amazing!

Jesus said very clearly that recipients of eternal life (that means ALL believers) shall never perish.

All believers receive eternal life. John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:40, 47. Or prove otherwise by exegeting each verse.
Recipients of eternal life (that would be ALL believers) shall never perish.

There is NOTHING of what you said that can be found in John 10:28.

No, Heb 10 is saying in the OT, there was physical death; but now in the NT, if we despise the Blood of Christ, which sanctified us, we have to fear eternal death, which disproves OSAS once and for all.

Congratulations! You just proved the Bible contradicts itself. Feel better now? sheeeeesh.

Give me a specific verse where you "think" we have to fear eteranl death. If that were true, then the writer of Hebrews was an idiot and had no idea what Jesus taught.

But I don't believe that he was an idiot. He was just as inspired by the Holy Spirit as was Paul and every other writer of the Bible.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Continuation of previous post:

Did you answer the example from the Gospel I gave earlier; I don't think so. Here it is again.

Mat 18:27: "27Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt."
Mat 18:34: "34And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him."

Truly Justified, but not Saved. How much clearer can it be that the Two are Distinct? 1 single counterexample disproves it.

First, this is a parable, given to unbelievers who were negative about who Jesus actually was; the Son of God. So this isn't the gospel or an evangelistic appeal to Jews.

Second, it taught about forgiving others as God has forgiven you. Read the whole parable. You'll see it if your eyes are really open.

Explain why. The verse says those who fall away draw back to perdition. It's crystal clear and it negates your theory

Reading through Heb 10 I couldn't find any verse that says what you claim here. Please quote the verse so I know what you are talking about.

Disagree. Even Calvinist OSASers know unrepentant atheists, apostates, satanists etc who once said a 30 sec sinner's prayer, are not saved, and they are right about that.

Hold on. And quit trying to move the goal posts. I never said anything about any kind of prayer, regardless of length, so don't add that to what you think I am defending. I am defending eternal security of those who HAVE believed in Jesus Christ as Savior.

I actually agree that NO prayer will save anyone. Praying is just words. Believing is trusting. No words necessary.

These atheists can be justified and saved if they come back to faith in Christ

Seems there is so much of the Bible that you aren't aware of then.

No verse speaks of "coming back to faith" in order to be saved again. And that is what you have to mean, since you added "come back to".

That would mean they ONCE did believe.

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Do you notice that the bolded words in each verse are the EXACT SAME?

So, what do they mean? They mean condemnation is for those who NEVER BELIEVED. Or prove me wrong with a clear example, which I know you can't do. Reality is against you, as well as the meaning of words.

confess and repent of their apostasy etc, according to 1 Jn 1: "8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

The clear subject of ch 1 is about fellowship with God and the Lord and with each other. The ONLY WAY to restore fellowship with the Lord after we sin is to confess it to Him. btw, John did not include "repent", which you did. Stay with what the Word says.

I said:
"Everyone who has been given eternal life, which is WHEN a person believes in Christ, shall never perish."

Wrong.

Regarding who possesses eternal life, see John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:40 and 47. So prove me wrong.
Regarding who shall never perish, it is recipients of eternal life. John 10:28 So prove me wrong.

Those sheep who (1) follow Him, (2) "know" Him, which means continual communion/fellowship with Him, and (3) listen to His Voice (which means, obey His commands; He even said those who do not obey His commands do not love Him

All correct, but you made the fatal mistake of assuming or presuming that v.27 is a condition upon the recipients of eternal life must continually do in order to never perish. You cannot find ANY words that convey a conditional clause in either v.27 or v.28.

So your reading is faulty and has led you to false doctrine. Not good.

can those be saved who do not love Jesus Christ?

Yes. Are you totally unaware that the Bible commands believers to love God? Believers, by definition, are ALREADY saved.

Please. and those who obey His commands abide in Him and He in them) are granted both Justification and Perseverance; that is what it means that no one snatches them out of His hand, they have the gift to endure or persevere to the end, which means they never fall away. Those who do those things are saved. In 2 Pet 1:5-11, the Apostle gives us similar advice and says: "If you do these things, you will never stumble"
God Bless.

Did you notice what Peter listed for believers so that they "will never stumble"? Apparently not. v.5-8 is a list of character traits. Peter said to ADD them to your faith.

Only those believers who DO add them to their faith will never stumble.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said
"You also obviously are oblivious to what Jesus taught about eternal life.

From John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:40,47 believers possess eternal life.
From John 10:28, recipients (believers) of eternal life shall never perish.

Too bad you either didn't know what Jesus taught, or you are aware of these verses but have chosen to reject them as truth."

Part 2

15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

I like the Berean Standard Translation better.

that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life.

May Have you have to put that believe into action in your live every day. (you will see that in the definitions)

WRONG. The subjunctive mood for "may have" means IF (potential) you believe you WILL HAVE eternal life.

Check your Greek grammar.

Verse 16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

There is that word again BELIEVE.

I believe I will have me a hot dog today and I may, probably, kinda should believe in “jesus” today it is Sunday.

True Bible students KNOW that "to believe in Jesus" means to fully trust what He did for YOU personally for salvation.

It's not a "sorta" kind of thing. Maybe your hotdog is, but not salvation by trusting in Christ.

You shouldn't trivialize salvation by such foolishness.

That is the proper use of believe but that is not the kind of believe that Jesus is talking about.

I just explained what He meant. He meant to fully trust in what He did for you personally on the cross, and you will be saved.

Exactly Paul's answer to the jailer's question. Acts 16:30,31

He is talking about putting your full trust, hope, life in His hands, every day, depending on Him to take care of you.

Now you are describing lifestyle faith, which does NOT save you. It is the faith commanded in the Bible for believers. The best example is the Exodus generation. They were saved, according to 1 Cor 10, but they did NOT have lifestyle faith. They weren't trusting in God for their day to day needs.

It is clear you are confused between the 2 different kinds of faith.

 

[Thewatchman]

https://activechristianity.org/7-extraordinary-promises-for-those-who-overcome

The 2nd extraordinary promise: You will not be hurt by the second death
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.” Revelation 2:11.

It is clear that, to avoid the lake of fire or the second death, we are called and commanded both to believe and to overcome, which we can do by His Grace. "I can do all things through Christ Who strengthens me" as Paul says so you and I can and should overcome. Neither, without God's Grace, are we able to overcome, nor with His Grace, are we unable.

“He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.”

Again, those who do not overcome can be blotted out from the Book of Life; those who overcome will not be blotted out.

“To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.”

As Christ Himself overcame, so also we, His believers/disciples/followers are called to do the same, to go to His Throne.

God Bless.

If I read this right I thank we are on the same page. We can not work our way into heaven no matter how hard we try.
We can not just say the siners prayer and set back and hope for the best.
We need to work hand in hand with Jesus letting Him lead the way and set the pace. It takes faith and trust to follow him and without both which He will provide IF we will let Him and If we really are ready to work for and with Him.

 

[Thewatchman]

I said
"You also obviously are oblivious to what Jesus taught about eternal life.

From John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:40,47 believers possess eternal life.
From John 10:28, recipients (believers) of eternal life shall never perish.

Too bad you either didn't know what Jesus taught, or you are aware of these verses but have chosen to reject them as truth."

WRONG. The subjunctive mood for "may have" means IF (potential) you believe you WILL HAVE eternal life.

Check your Greek grammar.


True Bible students KNOW that "to believe in Jesus" means to fully trust what He did for YOU personally for salvation.

It's not a "sorta" kind of thing. Maybe your hotdog is, but not salvation by trusting in Christ.

You shouldn't trivialize salvation by such foolishness.


I just explained what He meant. He meant to fully trust in what He did for you personally on the cross, and you will be saved.

Exactly Paul's answer to the jailer's question. Acts 16:30,31


Now you are describing lifestyle faith, which does NOT save you. It is the faith commanded in the Bible for believers. The best example is the Exodus generation. They were saved, according to 1 Cor 10, but they did NOT have lifestyle faith. They weren't trusting in God for their day to day needs.

It is clear you are confused between the 2 different kinds of faith.

It is clear you are confused between the 2 different kinds of faith
Please inlighten me abot the 2 kinds of faith

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
I just explained what He meant. He meant to fully trust in what He did for you personally on the cross, and you will be saved.

Exactly Paul's answer to the jailer's question. Acts 16:30,31

Now you are describing lifestyle faith, which does NOT save you. It is the faith commanded in the Bible for believers. The best example is the Exodus generation. They were saved, according to 1 Cor 10, but they did NOT have lifestyle faith. They weren't trusting in God for their day to day needs.

It is clear you are confused between the 2 different kinds of faith."

It is clear you are confused between the 2 different kinds of faith
Please inlighten me abot the 2 kinds of faith

I just did. And again above.

What don't you understand between saving faith and lifestyle faith?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

FreeGrace2 said:
Your theology is just weird. And not found anywhere in the Bible.

Basically, what you are saying is that your "interpretation" is superior to those who disagree with you and quote verses that are crystal clear.

Hogwash. You may think you are an elitist, but you are not.

2 Cor 1;13,14
13 For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand. And I hope that, 14 as you have understood us in part, you will come to understand fully that you can boast of us just as we will boast of you in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Your opinions do not align with Scripture.

I thought you were a stickler about context. These verses are addressed unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all A-chai-a. They are not addressed to the unregenerate.

Have you ever considered that there is a remnant of the adopted children of God, who have been revealed the knowledge of the righteousness of God? Rom 9:27 - Esaias also crieth concerning Israel (Jacob). Though the number of the children of Israel (Jacob) be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved (delivered from their ignorance of God's righteousness). This is a timely deliverance, not eternal deliverance.

I realise that this a mystery to you, but you are one of God's lost sheep, that us elitist (remnant) are supposed to teach the righteousness of God, to deliver you from your ignorance of the righteousness of God, to no longer depend upon the old law, of works, for your deliverance.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Eph 2:5 equates "being made alive" with "being saved". They are synonymous terms.

Yes, I agree that being quickened to the new spiritual life delivers (saves) us from being dead in our sins.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Eph 2:8 says we are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH. iow, the faith is present before salvation and regeneration.

I have explained this verse, more that once, so, add this explanation to your list; The "FAITH" in this scripture is not your faith, but is actually Jesus's faith (Gal 2:16).

 

[ForestGreenCook]

No need to keep repeating your erroneous talking points. The gospel is a trust issue, not a spiritual issue.

By your claim that your faith is not equal to spiritual is derived within your head only. Just another ploy in trying to give the unregenerate insight to understand spiritual things, when there are too many scriptures that refute that.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

FreeGrace2 said:
Your posts seem to negate any need for belief in the Savior.

How about that! You agree with me. However, the new birth FOLLOWS the trust issue of the gospel.

Unlike yourself, I can prove what I claim.

Eph 2:5 equates "being made alive" with "being saved". They are synonymous terms.

Eph 2:8 says we are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH. iow, the faith is present before salvation and regeneration.


No need to keep repeating your erroneous talking points. The gospel is a trust issue, not a spiritual issue.


How come you CANNOT find ANY verse in the Bible that says what you keep claiming??

I am sorry that I did not attach a scripture to my claims. It is 1 Cor 2:14.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I thought you were a stickler about context. These verses are addressed unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all A-chai-a. They are not addressed to the unregenerate.

I never said Paul's letters were to any unregenerate.

Have you ever considered that there is a remnant of the adopted children of God, who have been revealed the knowledge of the righteousness of God?

I reject your weird way with words. Just say saved or unsaved. That's the condition of people. One or the other.

You keep using "adopted children of God". However, the Bible never uses that phrase.

John 1:12 - Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

Gal 3:26 - So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith,

Clear enough. Those who believe are children of God. Stick with biblical terms.

Rom 9:27 - Esaias also crieth concerning Israel (Jacob). Though the number of the children of Israel (Jacob) be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved (delivered from their ignorance of God's righteousness). This is a timely deliverance, not eternal deliverance.

Interesting. Your verse doesn't even mention "adopted children of God".

I realise that this a mystery to you, but you are one of God's lost sheep

Don't be inane.

that us elitist (remnant) are supposed to teach the righteousness of God

More inane comments.

to deliver you from your ignorance of the righteousness of God, to no longer depend upon the old law, of works, for your deliverance.

I've aready made very clear that salvation is by faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ. So don't condescend to me.

But that's what arrogant elitists do.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Eph 2:5 equates "being made alive" with "being saved". They are synonymous terms.

Yes, I agree that being quickened to the new spiritual life delivers (saves) us from being dead in our sins.

Being born again saves us from the LOF.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Eph 2:8 says we are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH. iow, the faith is present before salvation and regeneration.

I have explained this verse, more that once

You have no clue what you are talking about. So your repetitions are meaningless and worthless.

so, add this explanation to your list; The "FAITH" in this scripture is not your faith, but is actually Jesus's faith (Gal 2:16).

I have repeatedly explained how much you have failed to understand Eph 2:8. And you don't even understand Gal 2:16.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
No need to keep repeating your erroneous talking points. The gospel is a trust issue, not a spiritual issue.

By your claim that your faith is not equal to spiritual is derived within your head only.

Maybe you should run your sentence through YOUR HEAD and then figure out how to fix it in order to be understood.

Just another ploy in trying to give the unregenerate insight to understand spiritual things

Ignorant people think that the gospel promise is a spiritual issue, when they can't even defend their claim. It is strictly a trust issue.

iow, do you trust the promise of God or not?

,

when there are too many scriptures that refute that.

When will you be sharing any of them? So far, all you've done is make claims.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I am sorry that I did not attach a scripture to my claims. It is 1 Cor 2:14.

yeah, I know. That verse doesn't apply to the gospel. And you haven't even tried to explain how the gospel promise is a spiritual issue.

Why not?

Because you can't and you know it. So you ignore my invite to explain how it is a spiritual issue.

you just don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Thewatchman]

Continuation of previous post:


First, this is a parable, given to unbelievers who were negative about who Jesus actually was; the Son of God. So this isn't the gospel or an evangelistic appeal to Jews.

Second, it taught about forgiving others as God has forgiven you. Read the whole parable. You'll see it if your eyes are really open.


Reading through Heb 10 I couldn't find any verse that says what you claim here. Please quote the verse so I know what you are talking about.


Hold on. And quit trying to move the goal posts. I never said anything about any kind of prayer, regardless of length, so don't add that to what you think I am defending. I am defending eternal security of those who HAVE believed in Jesus Christ as Savior.

I actually agree that NO prayer will save anyone. Praying is just words. Believing is trusting. No words necessary.


Seems there is so much of the Bible that you aren't aware of then.

No verse speaks of "coming back to faith" in order to be saved again. And that is what you have to mean, since you added "come back to".

That would mean they ONCE did believe.

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Do you notice that the bolded words in each verse are the EXACT SAME?

So, what do they mean? They mean condemnation is for those who NEVER BELIEVED. Or prove me wrong with a clear example, which I know you can't do. Reality is against you, as well as the meaning of words.


The clear subject of ch 1 is about fellowship with God and the Lord and with each other. The ONLY WAY to restore fellowship with the Lord after we sin is to confess it to Him. btw, John did not include "repent", which you did. Stay with what the Word says.

I said:
"Everyone who has been given eternal life, which is WHEN a person believes in Christ, shall never perish."

Regarding who possesses eternal life, see John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:40 and 47. So prove me wrong.
Regarding who shall never perish, it is recipients of eternal life. John 10:28 So prove me wrong.


All correct, but you made the fatal mistake of assuming or presuming that v.27 is a condition upon the recipients of eternal life must continually do in order to never perish. You cannot find ANY words that convey a conditional clause in either v.27 or v.28.

So your reading is faulty and has led you to false doctrine. Not good.


Yes. Are you totally unaware that the Bible commands believers to love God? Believers, by definition, are ALREADY saved.


Did you notice what Peter listed for believers so that they "will never stumble"? Apparently not. v.5-8 is a list of character traits. Peter said to ADD them to your faith.

Only those believers who DO add them to their faith will never stumble.

Truly Justified, but not Saved. How much clearer can it be that the Two are Distinct? 1 single counterexample disproves it.