-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Francina
I believe there are two types of sin. The sin a new convert carries into his new life from his former life that he is desperate to be rid of, and the wilfull, deliberate sin committed once a person has been set free of such sin, and the two must be viewed very differently
The golod laws of God He would have us keep have been written on our hearts and minds under the new covenant, which I believe means that in our hearts(if our conversion is a sincere one) we want to live as God would have us live
Therefore if a new convert looks to the list mentioned in my previous post and basis their Christianity in any way on keeping that list they are in trouble.
I do not set aside the grace of God, if righteousness could be gained by the law Christ died for nothing
Gal 2:21
If a new convert has to focus on such a list of the written law they will soon become crushed if they are sincere. It is their job to look to Christ and trust him, not to themselves and the written law
For obediance comes from faith
Rom 1:5
BTW
I agree grace is empowerment providing we are looking to Christ in faith and not to the written law
I believe there are two types of sin. The sin a new convert carries into his new life from his former life that he is desperate to be rid of, and the wilfull, deliberate sin committed once a person has been set free of such sin, and the two must be viewed very differently
The golod laws of God He would have us keep have been written on our hearts and minds under the new covenant, which I believe means that in our hearts(if our conversion is a sincere one) we want to live as God would have us live
Therefore if a new convert looks to the list mentioned in my previous post and basis their Christianity in any way on keeping that list they are in trouble.
I do not set aside the grace of God, if righteousness could be gained by the law Christ died for nothing
Gal 2:21
If a new convert has to focus on such a list of the written law they will soon become crushed if they are sincere. It is their job to look to Christ and trust him, not to themselves and the written law
For obediance comes from faith
Rom 1:5
BTW
I agree grace is empowerment providing we are looking to Christ in faith and not to the written law
Last edited:
1 Corinthians 9: 27 but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.
1 Corinthians 10: 12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall.
Galatians 5: 4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law ; you have fallen from grace.
Hebrews 3: 12-19 12 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end, 15 while it is said, "TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS, AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME." 16 For who provoked Him when they had heard ? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses ? 17 And with whom was He angry for forty years ? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness ? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient ? 19 So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.
Compare this with what I said in posting #40 above.
1 Corinthians 10: 12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall.
Galatians 5: 4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law ; you have fallen from grace.
Hebrews 3: 12-19 12 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end, 15 while it is said, "TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS, AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME." 16 For who provoked Him when they had heard ? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses ? 17 And with whom was He angry for forty years ? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness ? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient ? 19 So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.
Compare this with what I said in posting #40 above.
F
again, believing is not passive, Jesus said - New International Reader's Version
The Son of Man will send out his angels. They will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin. They will also get rid of all who do evil.
This is the gospel, the message of the Kingdom is the gospel , this is what He preached & all the apostles lined up with in their letters, do you believe?
If you do , you need the grace of God to save you because you can not get yourself a new heart & you can not change your nature, therefor it is not by your works that you enter into salvation
you need that grace , the nature of Christ on the inside to keep you
let me add salvation is as the bible describes it in the old & new testament ,repentance - turning from sin & turning to God, from darkness to light...so that we will have a share with those who are sanctified
Acts 26:18
King James Version
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
19Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
17Brethren, together follow my example and observe those who live after the pattern we have set for you. 18For there are many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, who walk (live) as enemies of the cross of Christ (the Anointed One).
19They are doomed and their [a]fate is eternal misery (perdition); their god is their stomach (their appetites, their sensuality) and they glory in their shame, [b]siding with earthly things and being of their party.
20But we are citizens of the state (commonwealth, homeland) which is in heaven, and from it also we [c]earnestly and patiently await [the coming of] the Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah) [as] Savior,
The Son of Man will send out his angels. They will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin. They will also get rid of all who do evil.
This is the gospel, the message of the Kingdom is the gospel , this is what He preached & all the apostles lined up with in their letters, do you believe?
If you do , you need the grace of God to save you because you can not get yourself a new heart & you can not change your nature, therefor it is not by your works that you enter into salvation
you need that grace , the nature of Christ on the inside to keep you
let me add salvation is as the bible describes it in the old & new testament ,repentance - turning from sin & turning to God, from darkness to light...so that we will have a share with those who are sanctified
Acts 26:18
King James Version
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
19Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
17Brethren, together follow my example and observe those who live after the pattern we have set for you. 18For there are many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, who walk (live) as enemies of the cross of Christ (the Anointed One).
19They are doomed and their [a]fate is eternal misery (perdition); their god is their stomach (their appetites, their sensuality) and they glory in their shame, [b]siding with earthly things and being of their party.
20But we are citizens of the state (commonwealth, homeland) which is in heaven, and from it also we [c]earnestly and patiently await [the coming of] the Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah) [as] Savior,
M
The issue is not works; it is abiding in Christ. "If anyone does not abide in me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned." (Jn 15:6) If we abide in Christ, good works are the natural fruit of that relationship. If we do not abide, how can we expect to recieve the salvation that is in Him? "But he who endures to the end will be saved." (Matt 24:13)
Without doubt, salvation is by grace through faith. But as with any gift, we must handle it correctly to keep it. A father may give his son a car; whether it is still roadworthy in six months depends on how the son handles it.
As to where the line is, the issue is whether or not you are in Christ and He is the only one who is fit to make that judgement.
Without doubt, salvation is by grace through faith. But as with any gift, we must handle it correctly to keep it. A father may give his son a car; whether it is still roadworthy in six months depends on how the son handles it.
As to where the line is, the issue is whether or not you are in Christ and He is the only one who is fit to make that judgement.
becareful for this can be a trap; to make one feel secure, but false security.
some how we must stay on that straight and narrow, and feed on the flesh of christ.
one must feed the spitit, can not starf it, it must grow in spirit, and not stop growing.
this is how God judges the heart, how sincere it is to know him.
''wakeup''.
D
Greetings jj408,
I believe this topic splits Christians in (2) distinct camps. Me personally I believe that if you think you can loose your salvation, you never had it to begin with. Far too many Christians torture themselves with the fear of suddenly losing their salvation. Salvation is of the LORD. We are just gracious enough to have it bestowed upon us, and once that grace has been bestowed upon us, once we are illuminated to truth by the Holy Spirit we will choose life. The problem with man is that man is hindered from choosing GOD due to the hardness and sinfulness within man. People often in this day and age especially put too much stock in what THEY are able to do in reference to GOD. We need to put more stock in what we CANNOT do in reference to GOD. GOD makes the 1st move regarding salvation, and has made the first move since the beginning of time and actually before, if you wish to delve into the whole election/predestination thing lol.
If someone apostatizes from the faith, they have not endured until the end, and only the elect WILL endure until the end. These ones that apostatize are, and always were goats, they just had a false sense of conversion, probably the victim of hearing a false Gospel. This is why, if we wish to evangelize to the lost that WE GET THE GOSPEL RIGHT!!! and not tell someone a false prosperity Gospel perversion which ends up condemning them all the more. Remember this:
It is the Father who elects, it's the Son who provides the atonement/sacrifice, and it's the Holy Spirit that regenerates and sanctifies. The Father chose us, the Son died for us, the Spirit quickens us. What the One did was eternal, what the Other did was external, and what the Spirit does is internal. If anyone is missing any one of these they are not saved, nor can they be. But rest assured that if you are in the fold you will feel conviction, chastisement, trials, tribulations, but you will always endure and persevere because GOD will always walk with you through trials and tribulations and give you the strength to endure. Remember if GOD is for us, who can be against us.
A laborer in Christ Jesus,
DiscipleWilliam
I believe this topic splits Christians in (2) distinct camps. Me personally I believe that if you think you can loose your salvation, you never had it to begin with. Far too many Christians torture themselves with the fear of suddenly losing their salvation. Salvation is of the LORD. We are just gracious enough to have it bestowed upon us, and once that grace has been bestowed upon us, once we are illuminated to truth by the Holy Spirit we will choose life. The problem with man is that man is hindered from choosing GOD due to the hardness and sinfulness within man. People often in this day and age especially put too much stock in what THEY are able to do in reference to GOD. We need to put more stock in what we CANNOT do in reference to GOD. GOD makes the 1st move regarding salvation, and has made the first move since the beginning of time and actually before, if you wish to delve into the whole election/predestination thing lol.
If someone apostatizes from the faith, they have not endured until the end, and only the elect WILL endure until the end. These ones that apostatize are, and always were goats, they just had a false sense of conversion, probably the victim of hearing a false Gospel. This is why, if we wish to evangelize to the lost that WE GET THE GOSPEL RIGHT!!! and not tell someone a false prosperity Gospel perversion which ends up condemning them all the more. Remember this:
It is the Father who elects, it's the Son who provides the atonement/sacrifice, and it's the Holy Spirit that regenerates and sanctifies. The Father chose us, the Son died for us, the Spirit quickens us. What the One did was eternal, what the Other did was external, and what the Spirit does is internal. If anyone is missing any one of these they are not saved, nor can they be. But rest assured that if you are in the fold you will feel conviction, chastisement, trials, tribulations, but you will always endure and persevere because GOD will always walk with you through trials and tribulations and give you the strength to endure. Remember if GOD is for us, who can be against us.
A laborer in Christ Jesus,
DiscipleWilliam
JJ408:
Young brother, I'm going to answer your quesitions... Pay close attention to what I'm going to say...
There are steps to salvation. Salvation is not only deliverance from the second death, destruction and permanent seperation from GOD in the afterlife, but it also has many benefits which makes life so much better here on earth. Before we consider how to become truly saved you must first understand that it is sin that seperated us from GOD to begin with. The Apostle Paul said in Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
But God loved us sooo much that HE gave HIS only Son that we might be saved from this second death and destruction and live eternally in Paradise, which is a spiritual realm of the utmost Glory of Glories (i.e. JOY PEACE LOVE ).
- Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Now, the Apostle Paul was the wise master builder that built on the foundation of the gospel of the Grace Kingdom which is in Jesus Christ... In Rom 2:16 Paul said, In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Rom 10:10 says, For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Here, the Apostle Paul is explaining that once you profess to believe that God rose Jesus from the dead [and he lives], you're going to start doing what's right, meaning that confession is made toward your actions lining up with what Jesus taught and how Jesus lived, which shows you REALLY believe that He lives in you and ultimately HIS SPIRIT inside you is the seal of Salvation.
Jesus told a ruler of the Jews, not to be amazed that you must be born again to goto Heaven....
- Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
- You were born into sin so you have to be "born again", which the Holyghost gives you the Spirit of adoption to become a son of GOD and joint-heirs with the firstborn among many brothers, Jesus Christ.
Jesus told Peter in Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Now, Jesus gave Peter those keys to the Kingdom in Acts the 2nd Chapter on the day of Pentecost... Of course, we know Jesus did not give Peter physical keys, but simply gave him the "access code" to enter in to the Kingdom of Heaven... So Peter being full of the Holyghost began to preach Jesus, and how HE was resurrected and lives
He preached to the very invividuals that mocked, beat and crucified Jesus...
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
- The was terrifieed at this point and didn't know what to do, after they realized what they had done... But Peter having the keys said,
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
The Basis of Salvation:
- Repent means to turn away from your wicked ways, to stop doing evil deeds.
- Water Baptism in Jesus remits or blots out or washes away your past sins/ evil deeds.
- Gift of the Holyghost by which the grace is sent to give you POWER to walk in the liberty of living FREE FROM SIN.
- In Rom 5:21 The wise master builder explains, That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
- Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Jesus came to set the captives free and
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed
You become born again with the Holyghost, which is salvation, you are no longer bound to sin. You don't have to sin, you now have the POWER to live free from sin... Grace is unmerited help, meaning its nothing we have done to deserve this gift which empowers us to live as GOD's word commands us. That's Grace.
Will you live your life in darkness, being evil and a servant of sin or will you let Christ inside to give you a new heart and a new life to be a servant of GOD? The choice is yours.
In Joshua 24:15 Its says to choose you this day whom ye will serve?
The devil wants to steal your joy, kill your blessings and destroy your soul... He will throw all types of fiery darts (evil thoguhts) into your mind to keep you from getting the Holyghost. Once you get the Holyghost you will know that your saved. The Holyghost will you give you the POWER to recognize and resist the devil.
When you were crying out for help, going to church regularly and had stopped listenign to degrading music, GOD was definately dealing with your heart and giving you a mind to seek Him.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
You are really young and the LORD loves your soul, I just want to encourage you to continue to pray that the LORD will draw you closer to Him and save you from a life of death and destruction. I pray the seeds sown will some day spring forth and bear fruit to GOD a hundredfold in JESUS name! Amen.
Young brother, I'm going to answer your quesitions... Pay close attention to what I'm going to say...
There are steps to salvation. Salvation is not only deliverance from the second death, destruction and permanent seperation from GOD in the afterlife, but it also has many benefits which makes life so much better here on earth. Before we consider how to become truly saved you must first understand that it is sin that seperated us from GOD to begin with. The Apostle Paul said in Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
But God loved us sooo much that HE gave HIS only Son that we might be saved from this second death and destruction and live eternally in Paradise, which is a spiritual realm of the utmost Glory of Glories (i.e. JOY PEACE LOVE ).
- Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Now, the Apostle Paul was the wise master builder that built on the foundation of the gospel of the Grace Kingdom which is in Jesus Christ... In Rom 2:16 Paul said, In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Rom 10:10 says, For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Here, the Apostle Paul is explaining that once you profess to believe that God rose Jesus from the dead [and he lives], you're going to start doing what's right, meaning that confession is made toward your actions lining up with what Jesus taught and how Jesus lived, which shows you REALLY believe that He lives in you and ultimately HIS SPIRIT inside you is the seal of Salvation.
Jesus told a ruler of the Jews, not to be amazed that you must be born again to goto Heaven....
- Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
- You were born into sin so you have to be "born again", which the Holyghost gives you the Spirit of adoption to become a son of GOD and joint-heirs with the firstborn among many brothers, Jesus Christ.
Jesus told Peter in Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Now, Jesus gave Peter those keys to the Kingdom in Acts the 2nd Chapter on the day of Pentecost... Of course, we know Jesus did not give Peter physical keys, but simply gave him the "access code" to enter in to the Kingdom of Heaven... So Peter being full of the Holyghost began to preach Jesus, and how HE was resurrected and lives
He preached to the very invividuals that mocked, beat and crucified Jesus...Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
- The was terrifieed at this point and didn't know what to do, after they realized what they had done... But Peter having the keys said,
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
The Basis of Salvation:
- Repent means to turn away from your wicked ways, to stop doing evil deeds.
- Water Baptism in Jesus remits or blots out or washes away your past sins/ evil deeds.
- Gift of the Holyghost by which the grace is sent to give you POWER to walk in the liberty of living FREE FROM SIN.
- In Rom 5:21 The wise master builder explains, That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
- Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Jesus came to set the captives free and
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed
You become born again with the Holyghost, which is salvation, you are no longer bound to sin. You don't have to sin, you now have the POWER to live free from sin... Grace is unmerited help, meaning its nothing we have done to deserve this gift which empowers us to live as GOD's word commands us. That's Grace.
Will you live your life in darkness, being evil and a servant of sin or will you let Christ inside to give you a new heart and a new life to be a servant of GOD? The choice is yours.
In Joshua 24:15 Its says to choose you this day whom ye will serve?
The devil wants to steal your joy, kill your blessings and destroy your soul... He will throw all types of fiery darts (evil thoguhts) into your mind to keep you from getting the Holyghost. Once you get the Holyghost you will know that your saved. The Holyghost will you give you the POWER to recognize and resist the devil.
When you were crying out for help, going to church regularly and had stopped listenign to degrading music, GOD was definately dealing with your heart and giving you a mind to seek Him.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
You are really young and the LORD loves your soul, I just want to encourage you to continue to pray that the LORD will draw you closer to Him and save you from a life of death and destruction. I pray the seeds sown will some day spring forth and bear fruit to GOD a hundredfold in JESUS name! Amen.
C
JJ408:
Young brother, I'm going to answer your quesitions... Pay close attention to what I'm going to say...
There are steps to salvation. Salvation is not only deliverance from the second death, destruction and permanent seperation from GOD in the afterlife, but it also has many benefits which makes life so much better here on earth. Before we consider how to become truly saved you must first understand that it is sin that seperated us from GOD to begin with. The Apostle Paul said in Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
But God loved us sooo much that HE gave HIS only Son that we might be saved from this second death and destruction and live eternally in Paradise, which is a spiritual realm of the utmost Glory of Glories (i.e. JOY PEACE LOVE ).
- Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Now, the Apostle Paul was the wise master builder that built on the foundation of the gospel of the Grace Kingdom which is in Jesus Christ... In Rom 2:16 Paul said, In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Rom 10:10 says, For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Here, the Apostle Paul is explaining that once you profess to believe that God rose Jesus from the dead [and he lives], you're going to start doing what's right, meaning that confession is made toward your actions lining up with what Jesus taught and how Jesus lived, which shows you REALLY believe that He lives in you and ultimately HIS SPIRIT inside you is the seal of Salvation.
Jesus told a ruler of the Jews, not to be amazed that you must be born again to goto Heaven....
- Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
- You were born into sin so you have to be "born again", which the Holyghost gives you the Spirit of adoption to become a son of GOD and joint-heirs with the firstborn among many brothers, Jesus Christ.
Jesus told Peter in Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Now, Jesus gave Peter those keys to the Kingdom in Acts the 2nd Chapter on the day of Pentecost... Of course, we know Jesus did not give Peter physical keys, but simply gave him the "access code" to enter in to the Kingdom of Heaven... So Peter being full of the Holyghost began to preach Jesus, and how HE was resurrected and lives He preached to the very invividuals that mocked, beat and crucified Jesus...
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
- The was terrifieed at this point and didn't know what to do, after they realized what they had done... But Peter having the keys said,
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
The Basis of Salvation:
- Repent means to turn away from your wicked ways, to stop doing evil deeds.
- Water Baptism in Jesus remits or blots out or washes away your past sins/ evil deeds.
- Gift of the Holyghost by which the grace is sent to give you POWER to walk in the liberty of living FREE FROM SIN.
- In Rom 5:21 The wise master builder explains, That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
- Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Jesus came to set the captives free and
Joh 8:36If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed
You become born again with the Holyghost, which is salvation, you are no longer bound to sin. You don't have to sin, you now have the POWER to live free from sin... Grace is unmerited help, meaning its nothing we have done to deserve this gift which empowers us to live as GOD's word commands us. That's Grace.
Will you live your life in darkness, being evil and a servant of sin or will you let Christ inside to give you a new heart and a new life to be a servant of GOD? The choice is yours.
In Joshua 24:15 Its says to choose you this day whom ye will serve?
The devil wants to steal your joy, kill your blessings and destroy your soul... He will throw all types of fiery darts (evil thoguhts) into your mind to keep you from getting the Holyghost. Once you get the Holyghost you will know that your saved. The Holyghost will you give you the POWER to recognize and resist the devil.
When you were crying out for help, going to church regularly and had stopped listenign to degrading music, GOD was definately dealing with your heart and giving you a mind to seek Him.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
You are really young and the LORD loves your soul, I just want to encourage you to continue to pray that the LORD will draw you closer to Him and save you from a life of death and destruction. I pray the seeds sown will some day spring forth and bear fruit to GOD a hundredfold in JESUS name! Amen.
Young brother, I'm going to answer your quesitions... Pay close attention to what I'm going to say...
There are steps to salvation. Salvation is not only deliverance from the second death, destruction and permanent seperation from GOD in the afterlife, but it also has many benefits which makes life so much better here on earth. Before we consider how to become truly saved you must first understand that it is sin that seperated us from GOD to begin with. The Apostle Paul said in Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
But God loved us sooo much that HE gave HIS only Son that we might be saved from this second death and destruction and live eternally in Paradise, which is a spiritual realm of the utmost Glory of Glories (i.e. JOY PEACE LOVE ).
- Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Now, the Apostle Paul was the wise master builder that built on the foundation of the gospel of the Grace Kingdom which is in Jesus Christ... In Rom 2:16 Paul said, In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Rom 10:10 says, For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Here, the Apostle Paul is explaining that once you profess to believe that God rose Jesus from the dead [and he lives], you're going to start doing what's right, meaning that confession is made toward your actions lining up with what Jesus taught and how Jesus lived, which shows you REALLY believe that He lives in you and ultimately HIS SPIRIT inside you is the seal of Salvation.
Jesus told a ruler of the Jews, not to be amazed that you must be born again to goto Heaven....
- Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
- You were born into sin so you have to be "born again", which the Holyghost gives you the Spirit of adoption to become a son of GOD and joint-heirs with the firstborn among many brothers, Jesus Christ.
Jesus told Peter in Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Now, Jesus gave Peter those keys to the Kingdom in Acts the 2nd Chapter on the day of Pentecost... Of course, we know Jesus did not give Peter physical keys, but simply gave him the "access code" to enter in to the Kingdom of Heaven... So Peter being full of the Holyghost began to preach Jesus, and how HE was resurrected and lives
He preached to the very invividuals that mocked, beat and crucified Jesus...Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
- The was terrifieed at this point and didn't know what to do, after they realized what they had done... But Peter having the keys said,
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
The Basis of Salvation:
- Repent means to turn away from your wicked ways, to stop doing evil deeds.
- Water Baptism in Jesus remits or blots out or washes away your past sins/ evil deeds.
- Gift of the Holyghost by which the grace is sent to give you POWER to walk in the liberty of living FREE FROM SIN.
- In Rom 5:21 The wise master builder explains, That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
- Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Jesus came to set the captives free and
Joh 8:36If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed
You become born again with the Holyghost, which is salvation, you are no longer bound to sin. You don't have to sin, you now have the POWER to live free from sin... Grace is unmerited help, meaning its nothing we have done to deserve this gift which empowers us to live as GOD's word commands us. That's Grace.
Will you live your life in darkness, being evil and a servant of sin or will you let Christ inside to give you a new heart and a new life to be a servant of GOD? The choice is yours.
In Joshua 24:15 Its says to choose you this day whom ye will serve?
The devil wants to steal your joy, kill your blessings and destroy your soul... He will throw all types of fiery darts (evil thoguhts) into your mind to keep you from getting the Holyghost. Once you get the Holyghost you will know that your saved. The Holyghost will you give you the POWER to recognize and resist the devil.
When you were crying out for help, going to church regularly and had stopped listenign to degrading music, GOD was definately dealing with your heart and giving you a mind to seek Him.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
You are really young and the LORD loves your soul, I just want to encourage you to continue to pray that the LORD will draw you closer to Him and save you from a life of death and destruction. I pray the seeds sown will some day spring forth and bear fruit to GOD a hundredfold in JESUS name! Amen.
great post, 
All of your other posts I cannot answer right now, as the chat software does not allow me to answer long posts with a response unless I delete the entire long post while using my phone.
You sound like you want to be a teacher of the Law. The Law is good as long as it is used righteously, knowing that the Law is not for those who are righteous.
But ask yourself, just who is righteous? And what constitutes righteousness? We have an example in scripture where it is said of Abraham that God counted it as righteousness when he believed God. But what did Abraham believe of God? God spoke to Him and told him that through the son he was to receive from God, that his seed would become a great nation. And through Issac, this occurred. Of course, Jesus was the true seed.
You said something about the moral law. God does not see morals, which can actually do evil in the name of good. God sees perfection, or it is sin. He never gave the commandments to anyone but the nation of Israel. You cannot show where He ever do so in any scripture. God never asked the people of Sodom and Gomorah to repent. He determined to destroy them, and Abraham tried to talk Him out of it. The message Jonah preached to Ninavah said nothing about repentance, just that God was going to destroy it. Jonah never preached the Law to them.
John wrote that we keep the commandments of Jesus, which are two, to believe on Him whom God sent, and to love one another even as He has loved us. If we would know the truth, neither of these is even possible without the Holy Spirit's power working in us.
I suggest that you go back and read scripture without any understanding of your own, asking God to reveal the truth to you by His Spirit. If you don't want to do this, that's okay, your choice.
In Christ,
As I posted earlier, the problem is that people become Christians by faith but then in effect are so often turned back to the law
They are told that now you are in grace the law must be obeyed in effect. Therefore if you don't obey the law you can't be in grace, therefore in effect you are still under the law. It is the true tragedy to me of Christianity today.
Upon a sincere (and I emphasise the word sincere) conversion a person in their heart desperately wants to live as God would have them live, as the good laws of God he would have them keep have been written on their hearts and minds, in such circumstances it is for them to look to Christ and trust him, clinging to him as it were like a limpet clinging to a rock
It is only by not looking to the written law and knowing we are secure with God through faith in his son that the law is better upheld in our lives
Rom 3:31
When the law was given sin increased, the law did not just reveal the sin
Rom 5:20
If we in effect are to look to the written law how can we die to the law and not be under the law as Paul consistently said.
As long as the Christian is looking to Christ and trusting him in their heart and seeking obediance through faith in Christ (Rom 1:5) they are not in their heart seeking to fulfill the desires of the flesh
The true sin of the true convert is when they wilfully look away from trusting Christ and turn to looking as it were to the sins of the flesh
Christ said the worlds sin is unbelief in him John 16:9
The Christians true sin if you like is the same. Not looking to Christ and trusting him.
That is the true battle, keeping our eyes firmly on Christ.
They are told that now you are in grace the law must be obeyed in effect. Therefore if you don't obey the law you can't be in grace, therefore in effect you are still under the law. It is the true tragedy to me of Christianity today.
Upon a sincere (and I emphasise the word sincere) conversion a person in their heart desperately wants to live as God would have them live, as the good laws of God he would have them keep have been written on their hearts and minds, in such circumstances it is for them to look to Christ and trust him, clinging to him as it were like a limpet clinging to a rock
It is only by not looking to the written law and knowing we are secure with God through faith in his son that the law is better upheld in our lives
Rom 3:31
When the law was given sin increased, the law did not just reveal the sin
Rom 5:20
If we in effect are to look to the written law how can we die to the law and not be under the law as Paul consistently said.
As long as the Christian is looking to Christ and trusting him in their heart and seeking obediance through faith in Christ (Rom 1:5) they are not in their heart seeking to fulfill the desires of the flesh
The true sin of the true convert is when they wilfully look away from trusting Christ and turn to looking as it were to the sins of the flesh
Christ said the worlds sin is unbelief in him John 16:9
The Christians true sin if you like is the same. Not looking to Christ and trusting him.
That is the true battle, keeping our eyes firmly on Christ.
Last edited:
Amen!!!
The entire message of Hebrews is that since God has done away with the old priesthood, those men who because of death were prevented from offering sacrifices for the people for any length of time, and because the sacrifices that they offered could not take away sin; God instituted a new priesthood with Jesus as the only priest, who on the basis of an indestructible life could always offer sacrifice for the people, forever. And even better, the sacrifice He offers is His own life and His own blood. His sacrifice takes away sin just as if it never existed. Therefore, the Law was done away with, because it was instituted on the basis of the old priesthood. Which was a good thing, because the Law could make nothing perfect. Hence, Jesus is able to save forever those who are drawing near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
The greatest disaster to come to the church is the doctrine of works based salvation. Jesus finished His discourse in John 3 by saying that those who love the light come to the light in order that their deeds might be manifest as having been wrought in God. If one's deeds are wrought in God, just who did them?
Righteousness, just like salvation and grace and even the Holy Spirit, either indwelling or baptized with, is a gift from God. It comes to us by our birth into His family, by our receiving His seed.
In Christ,
The entire message of Hebrews is that since God has done away with the old priesthood, those men who because of death were prevented from offering sacrifices for the people for any length of time, and because the sacrifices that they offered could not take away sin; God instituted a new priesthood with Jesus as the only priest, who on the basis of an indestructible life could always offer sacrifice for the people, forever. And even better, the sacrifice He offers is His own life and His own blood. His sacrifice takes away sin just as if it never existed. Therefore, the Law was done away with, because it was instituted on the basis of the old priesthood. Which was a good thing, because the Law could make nothing perfect. Hence, Jesus is able to save forever those who are drawing near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
The greatest disaster to come to the church is the doctrine of works based salvation. Jesus finished His discourse in John 3 by saying that those who love the light come to the light in order that their deeds might be manifest as having been wrought in God. If one's deeds are wrought in God, just who did them?
Righteousness, just like salvation and grace and even the Holy Spirit, either indwelling or baptized with, is a gift from God. It comes to us by our birth into His family, by our receiving His seed.
In Christ,
Last edited:
Yes
So often people speak of the 'works a Christian must do, but rarely add that the works are by the power of the spirit in our lives who sanctifies us.
So often it is in effect tragically a salvation that hinges on the law and the works of the natural self. No wonder with such a watered down(to put it politely) Gospel the power is so rarely seen and church numbers are dwindling
So often people speak of the 'works a Christian must do, but rarely add that the works are by the power of the spirit in our lives who sanctifies us.
So often it is in effect tragically a salvation that hinges on the law and the works of the natural self. No wonder with such a watered down(to put it politely) Gospel the power is so rarely seen and church numbers are dwindling
In addition, as we read scripture, we should realize that God caused it to be written in just such a way that if one wishes to believe in the Law, they will be able to find scripture to support that doctrine. Why would He do this? It has to do with receiving love of the truth. The truth is all summed up in Jesus, and the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth. God knows us better than we know ourselves, and knows what we will think of grace, forgiveness, and salvation. The deluding influence to those who refused to receive the love of the truth was already at work when Paul wrote about it. God sent this influence.
There is nothing we can do for God but this: draw near to Him in love and worship, through Jesus Christ. If we do this, then we have Jesus praying for us, that we be perfectly acceptable to God in Him. Knowing this, I cannot imagine a single thing that can separate us from the love of God.
In Christ,
There is nothing we can do for God but this: draw near to Him in love and worship, through Jesus Christ. If we do this, then we have Jesus praying for us, that we be perfectly acceptable to God in Him. Knowing this, I cannot imagine a single thing that can separate us from the love of God.
In Christ,
Last edited:
God has never given grace to anyone so that they can have liberty to live and continue in sin (Titus 2:11,12). With that, man can not use grace to live in sin not matter how much sin he lives in. It can't happen because God only gives grace to those that humble themselves (1Pt 5:5, James 4:6).
Rom 6:1,2
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
You read (verse 1) and the answer to the question is (verse 2), GOD FORBID, which means God forbids anyone from continuing in sin by means of grace. There is no such thing as 'antinomianism' with God. Man loves to accuse others of 'antinomianism' so that they can discredit some doctrine they don't like that involves grace.
When a believer goes out and decides to give up and do his own thing or live in some form of sin, thinking that God will be merciful and gracious to Him, God withdraws His grace and that man begins to backslide. It was grace that keep him from sin, but take grace away and the backsliding starts right off the bat. In that backslidden state God is going to deal with that believer and the believer could remain backslidden for years.
In (Hos 4:6) was considered the backsliding heifer.
In (Hos 11:7) they were bent (cling to) to backslide
In (Jer 2:19) God was going to use their own wickedness and backsliding to reprove and correct them.
In (Hos 14:4) God promised to heal them when they turned to Him and asked Him to take away their iniquity and asked to be received graciously.
* How many years has Israel been backslidden?
* In (Prov 14:4) a backslider is one who in their heart is filled with their own ways.
If you think that believers use grace to live in sin, prove all things and try it yourself. As soon as you do you will see just how fast God yanks grace away and starts to discipline you through chastisement. God will continue that discipline until He gets you to a place to turn back to Him, confess your sin and yield a peaceable fruit of righteousness (Heb 12:5-11).
Some of you don't even know when you are being chastened of the Lord and you go right on in your own ways and in your own understanding and get very religious. So God has to heap on more discipline to wake you up out of your feeble sluggish sleep and slumber (Prov 26:6, Rom 13:11, Heb 12:12,12). I wonder how many believers love their 'slumber parties' and like to do what's right in their own eyes and no one better tell them how to live a godly life or you'll be on their black list. However, if you stayed filled with your own ways and receive no chastening from the Lord, then what do the scriptures teach in (Heb 12:7,8)? BTW - the reaping and sowing laws of the flesh do not constitute a son being chastened of the Lord, although God may use those in conjunction with His chastening when He heaps it on good and plenty to get them back.
Rom 6:1,2
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
You read (verse 1) and the answer to the question is (verse 2), GOD FORBID, which means God forbids anyone from continuing in sin by means of grace. There is no such thing as 'antinomianism' with God. Man loves to accuse others of 'antinomianism' so that they can discredit some doctrine they don't like that involves grace.
When a believer goes out and decides to give up and do his own thing or live in some form of sin, thinking that God will be merciful and gracious to Him, God withdraws His grace and that man begins to backslide. It was grace that keep him from sin, but take grace away and the backsliding starts right off the bat. In that backslidden state God is going to deal with that believer and the believer could remain backslidden for years.
In (Hos 4:6) was considered the backsliding heifer.
In (Hos 11:7) they were bent (cling to) to backslide
In (Jer 2:19) God was going to use their own wickedness and backsliding to reprove and correct them.
In (Hos 14:4) God promised to heal them when they turned to Him and asked Him to take away their iniquity and asked to be received graciously.
* How many years has Israel been backslidden?
* In (Prov 14:4) a backslider is one who in their heart is filled with their own ways.
If you think that believers use grace to live in sin, prove all things and try it yourself. As soon as you do you will see just how fast God yanks grace away and starts to discipline you through chastisement. God will continue that discipline until He gets you to a place to turn back to Him, confess your sin and yield a peaceable fruit of righteousness (Heb 12:5-11).
Some of you don't even know when you are being chastened of the Lord and you go right on in your own ways and in your own understanding and get very religious. So God has to heap on more discipline to wake you up out of your feeble sluggish sleep and slumber (Prov 26:6, Rom 13:11, Heb 12:12,12). I wonder how many believers love their 'slumber parties' and like to do what's right in their own eyes and no one better tell them how to live a godly life or you'll be on their black list. However, if you stayed filled with your own ways and receive no chastening from the Lord, then what do the scriptures teach in (Heb 12:7,8)? BTW - the reaping and sowing laws of the flesh do not constitute a son being chastened of the Lord, although God may use those in conjunction with His chastening when He heaps it on good and plenty to get them back.
E
[FONT="]
Again, I turn you to the epistle of 1st john. Where he discussing the fact that some have left the church, and have decided they no longer believe in Christ or are against Christ (anti-christ)(an agnostic would fit this discription, for they are not sure they believe in a god, let alone a God who condemns, so Christ death would have been useless. because if there is not a judging God, then someone does not need to be judged in our behalf) although they might believe Christ lived and died.
John says in 1 John 2: 19 - 20
19They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us. [/FONT]
[FONT="] 20But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know. [/FONT]
[FONT="]
They departed, no longer believing.
they were never a part of us (truly a part of the church) or they would have stayed with us.
their departure shows that they never were a true part of us.
we have an annointing, they never did.
They did not lose salvation, they never had it.
If you have the anointing of the Holy Spirit (he is in you) then you will never depart from the faith (John makes this clear)
If you have the anointing, then when you sin, you will get chastened (the lord chastens those who are his, if you are not chasten you are illegitimate and not sons) and as the author of Hebrews states:
5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons:
“ My son, do not despise the chastening of the LORD,
Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him;
6 For whom the LORD loves He chastens,
And scourges every son whom He receives.”[[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="]a[/FONT][/FONT][FONT="]][/FONT][FONT="]
7 If[[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="]b[/FONT][/FONT][FONT="]][/FONT][FONT="] you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. 11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.[/FONT][FONT="]
I have been a "prodigal son" I left for 4 years when my wife kicked me out for another man. I lived in the world. But I never once did I feel like I was not Gods son, And the chastening I received was unbearable. The guilt I felt was horrendous. (I had run out of what my father Gave me, and living on the streets (speaking spiritually of course, like the prodigal son) I was basically brought to my knees and had two choices. Commit suicide (which I contemplated) or return home to my Father (amazingly, my best friend from High school who I was blessed by God to lead to Christ, who I had not heard from for three years, at the right moment called me, and asked me to come back to church (I never would have listened before this for guilt) and I returned.
Whats my point? a person who is saved, may be a prodigal son and go back into the world, But they will never stay there, God will not let them. Vs a person who claims they are saved, and goes out, and feels no guilt, no shame, no "chastening" which shows they were illegitimate sons (not really saved).
John said he tells us some things so we can "know "we have "not might have" eternal life, and continue to believe in the name of Christ. I think this is a part of the things he spoke of.
I might have left my fathers house. But I never believed I stopped being the fathers son. And I was "painfully" chastened by him, And this is how I knew I was saved.
Just because someone says they "know they are saved" does not mean they are. I can not know their hearts. God does. He not only knows their heart now, but everything they will think do and say until they die. This is why I will never (declare) someone is saved or not. For I do not know. But God knows. We can have a moment of joy, and think. but only a true faith or trust in God will save us, if we do not have this, we will leave.
How can you know your saved? Do you feel the chastening of God when you sin (not guilt, everyone feels guilt of some sort saved or not) If you do not, question yourself. Is your faith real?
[/FONT]
Again, I turn you to the epistle of 1st john. Where he discussing the fact that some have left the church, and have decided they no longer believe in Christ or are against Christ (anti-christ)(an agnostic would fit this discription, for they are not sure they believe in a god, let alone a God who condemns, so Christ death would have been useless. because if there is not a judging God, then someone does not need to be judged in our behalf) although they might believe Christ lived and died.
John says in 1 John 2: 19 - 20
19They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us. [/FONT]
[FONT="] 20But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know. [/FONT]
[FONT="]
They departed, no longer believing.
they were never a part of us (truly a part of the church) or they would have stayed with us.
their departure shows that they never were a true part of us.
we have an annointing, they never did.
They did not lose salvation, they never had it.
If you have the anointing of the Holy Spirit (he is in you) then you will never depart from the faith (John makes this clear)
If you have the anointing, then when you sin, you will get chastened (the lord chastens those who are his, if you are not chasten you are illegitimate and not sons) and as the author of Hebrews states:
5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons:
“ My son, do not despise the chastening of the LORD,
Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him;
6 For whom the LORD loves He chastens,
And scourges every son whom He receives.”[[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="]a[/FONT][/FONT][FONT="]][/FONT][FONT="]
7 If[[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="]b[/FONT][/FONT][FONT="]][/FONT][FONT="] you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. 11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.[/FONT][FONT="]
I have been a "prodigal son" I left for 4 years when my wife kicked me out for another man. I lived in the world. But I never once did I feel like I was not Gods son, And the chastening I received was unbearable. The guilt I felt was horrendous. (I had run out of what my father Gave me, and living on the streets (speaking spiritually of course, like the prodigal son) I was basically brought to my knees and had two choices. Commit suicide (which I contemplated) or return home to my Father (amazingly, my best friend from High school who I was blessed by God to lead to Christ, who I had not heard from for three years, at the right moment called me, and asked me to come back to church (I never would have listened before this for guilt) and I returned.
Whats my point? a person who is saved, may be a prodigal son and go back into the world, But they will never stay there, God will not let them. Vs a person who claims they are saved, and goes out, and feels no guilt, no shame, no "chastening" which shows they were illegitimate sons (not really saved).
John said he tells us some things so we can "know "we have "not might have" eternal life, and continue to believe in the name of Christ. I think this is a part of the things he spoke of.
I might have left my fathers house. But I never believed I stopped being the fathers son. And I was "painfully" chastened by him, And this is how I knew I was saved.
Just because someone says they "know they are saved" does not mean they are. I can not know their hearts. God does. He not only knows their heart now, but everything they will think do and say until they die. This is why I will never (declare) someone is saved or not. For I do not know. But God knows. We can have a moment of joy, and think. but only a true faith or trust in God will save us, if we do not have this, we will leave.
How can you know your saved? Do you feel the chastening of God when you sin (not guilt, everyone feels guilt of some sort saved or not) If you do not, question yourself. Is your faith real?
[/FONT]
Very few people in here are advocating that we must have works to be saved. Works has nothing do do with our decision to accept or deny Jesus. Salvation by faith alone has become a mantra to some people. They repeat it over and over in their heads anytime they see something they disagree with. If the decision to accept or deny Jesus is "works" then by that definition, everyone should be saved, and there would be no one going to hell. We know that not to be true.
The decision to accept or deny Jesus doesn't have to be a conscious decision. We can make that decision by the way that we choose to live our lives, either by the spirit of Christ, or by the flesh.
So stop repeating the mantra over and over, and start listening to what people are actually saying.
The decision to accept or deny Jesus doesn't have to be a conscious decision. We can make that decision by the way that we choose to live our lives, either by the spirit of Christ, or by the flesh.
So stop repeating the mantra over and over, and start listening to what people are actually saying.