ONCE saved always saved!.

[Cassian]

What is so blind as someone who goes on pontificating from his imagination or denominational tradition without reference to scripture? Seabass made no mention of scripture at all -- he just made assertions. Do you even notice it when persons of your denomination just up & say things without Bible proof? Do you notice it yourself in your own postings?

The entrance of God's Word brings light.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

I undeerstand those who teach scripture as it means without scriptural texts to prove their statement,.

On the other hand you cite scripture and don't even know what it means.
Your citations in the cases that actually are typically used by proponents of OSAS actually condemn the view based on scripture as it has always been understood. Which is why you cannot find support for it in scripture, but only in the false supposition imposed upon scripture.

The only supposition that aligns with OSAS is predestination. Since predestination,as understood by either true Calvinists or psuedo-Calvinist like you, is also not found in scripture. It has long been shown to be a false teaching imposed upon scripture and first used in a theological system by Calvin, That you personally disown Calvin does not change historical facts.

 

[Atwood]

That's because OSAS is false.

The OSAS advocates may use the novice was "never really saved to begin with" excuse.

But how can he be called a novice/new convert/new believer if he was never really saved/always an unbeliever/never converted?

There you have it, SeaBass just making things up; no scripture.
I don't recall anyone who believes in Eternal Security using the word "novice."
Now SeaBass, if you have such a statement, you may quote it; but I haven't used such a term in my posts here. You ask "how can he be called . . . /new believer if he was never really saved/"

You make up a straw man. Show me any Bible verse whatsoever where it is said that a man who believed in the Lord Jesus as Savior later stopped believing in Him as Savior.

More SeaBass in Wonderland:

And how can he fall into condemnation if he were always in condemnation? Logically one must first be OUT of condemnation (saved) in order to fall into condemnation.

No scripture quoted, just Seabass saying things.
Unsaved persons indeed are under condemnation.
And for saved persons, "There is therefore now no condemnation."
It is God who justifies, who is he who condemns; is it SeaBass?
You have no scripture whatsoever to prove that a person who trust Christ as SAvior is ever condemned to the Lake of Fire.
Of course whenever anyone sins, that sin is judged to be sin.
Yet we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous, who made propitiation for our sins. (1 John 2). Thus He can say, "Yes, Atwood sinned, but I paid for Atwood's sin on the cross. Now let us take him to the woodshed for a little loving correction."

Beware of insisting on translation words more severely than necessary. No scripture is of private interpretation; it all goes together. Since scripture is abundantly clear that the saved do not perish, but have everlasting life; interpret everything else in harmony with that.

All persons will have their works judged; believers may get chastisement in this life, and lose reward at the Bema Judgment Seat of Christ. But they won't be cast into the Lake of Fire after the Great White Throne Judgment at which they never appeared anyway.

And don't tell me that the Lord is going to throw a widow into the Lake of Fire for having taken a vow of celibacy, then deciding she wants to get married. Breaking a vow indeed receives a negative judgment; but not a condemnation to the Lake of Fire if the person is a child of God. In fact such a woman took a vow contrary to God's will at the getgo, since if she has a sexual itch & lacks the gift of celibacy, she stands under the commandment to have her own husband (1 Cor 7:1-2)

The whole thing was so outrageous that Paul forbad the practice of putting young women widows on the church roll.

So there you have it: a widow who was saved and escaped the condemnation to the Lake of Fire, she vowed a vow of celibacy & broke it to get married. The vow-breaking gets a negative judgment, for which "condemnation" is too strong a translation; but this is not losing salvation (an oxymoron).

 

[wgeurts]

I do also believe that in the Bible it says to treat others with respect, not something I see in this umm... "Discussion"

 

[eternally-gratefull]

that's because you only say you believe

lol.. You must not believe in many things.

you actually believe the rollercoaster ride will kill you if you get on it.

So now your God and you know my heart. Why are you here? It is obvious yuo have no desire to listen to anyone.

believe on the Lord and thou shall be saved....

Even demons believe yet tremble Faith which is not followed by works is dead. Can that faith save you? No. Why, It is merely belief.

learn the difference between mere belief and faith (I know a broken record. You have no desire to learn, that is quite obvious)

they believed he could carry someone ...not them...just like you ...you believe the rollercoaster will not kill you ....as long as you don't get on it...You believe if you take a ride you may get a heart attack and die or it may fall and kill you..If you believe you will if you don't you won't

No. They saw proof that he could do it. And believed he could, Because he proved it by doing it many times. (they would have to lie to say he could not do it. because he just did)

They had no faith he could do it the next time, and not fail.

Again, You do not want to see this. Thats why you refuse to see.

 

[wgeurts]

Ah, but Demons are angles that have rejected God as their Lord, not humans so they are not judges and saved by Jesus. A demon is merely an angel which undermines Gods authority and does its own will, they will to be thrown to hell after being judged. The difference, Jesus died for us not them, we are human they are not so we are saved by Christ, they are not and neither are they bound by the law.
Im 14 and this is just plain logic Im sorry.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The gift of God is eternal life, but once you have received this free gift and you are in heaven, the reward you receive will depend on how much fruit your produced while you were on earth.

So trust in the gift, because it is free and you will be in heaven.

But if you want your life on earth to be more fullfilling, then live the way John and the apostles and Jesus taught you to live.

If you want to be rewarded in heaven and have a more fullfilling eternity, then live the way John and the apostles and Jesus taught you to live.

All scriptures are reconcilable. OSAS is true, no question. But the idea of keeping the commandments after OSAS will be to your advantage for this life and for all eternity is also true.

no argument here at all

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I find it ironic that while Jesus was hanging on the cross, He was taking all the sins of the world unto Himself, and the Father turned away because the sight was too "disgusting" for Him to watch. Now here we are with this phony OSAS doctrine, which implies that those same filthy sins that Jesus absorbed on the cross and the Father could bear to watch, can now enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Such behavior & actions are not allowed in heaven and there are numerous of scriptures that states those sins are not allowed to enter God's Kingdom. I stated in an earlier post that the Church will be quite small because very few Christians will follow the Bible literally. One cannot dip in both God's world and the secular one. It is gonna be sad when most Christian will be left. When one is saved, he is a "new creature" and will not go back to those sinful ways. And if he does he needs to confess, repent and make amends to keep his slate clean with the Lord. Satan must be laughing his tail off knowing most Christians who follow this phony OSAS fluke will not have eternal life. But Jesus will give them a "second chance" to do it right with Him during TRibulation.

this makes no sense.

If we did not sin, Christ would not have had to die. Why would Christ die for sins not commited?

 

[john832]

Ah, but Demons are angles that have rejected God as their Lord, not humans so they are not judges and saved by Jesus. A demon is merely an angel which undermines Gods authority and does its own will, they will to be thrown to hell after being judged. The difference, Jesus died for us not them, we are human they are not so we are saved by Christ, they are not and neither are they bound by the law.
Im 14 and this is just plain logic Im sorry.

It is also truth.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

What sin is it that would cause someone to lose their salvation?
James said that if you offend the law at any point,you have broken the whole thing...ie.... someone throws a little rock at your windshield and puts a small crack in it,someone else throws a large rock and smashes your windshield.

You see,wheather its a small rock or a large rock the windshield needs to be repaired.
with men maybe its ok to live with the cracked windshield but not the smashed windshield;But with GOD sin will not be tolerated wheather its big or small.

So what I'm trying to say is sins someone commits even if it is gluttony is not acceptable because it too is habitual sin,is there anyone guilty of overeating?

The flesh is weak.

Only GOD is perfect.

people who are totally against the OSAS are people who are really into big sins are wrong and small sin is not bad.
That would be true from mans point of view but not before GOD.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What sin is it that would cause someone to lose their salvation?
James said that if you offend the law at any point,you have broken the whole thing...ie.... someone throws a little rock at your windshield and puts a small crack in it,someone else throws a large rock and smashes your windshield.

You see,wheather its a small rock or a large rock the windshield needs to be repaired.
with men maybe its ok to live with the cracked windshield but not the smashed windshield;But with GOD sin will not be tolerated wheather its big or small.

So what I'm trying to say is sins someone commits even if it is gluttony is not acceptable because it too is habitual sin,is there anyone guilty of overeating?

The flesh is weak.

Only GOD is perfect.

people who are totally against the OSAS are people who are really into big sins are wrong and small sin is not bad.
That would be true from mans point of view but not before GOD.

they excuse their own sin, while judging others.

Pharisees to a T

 

[biscuit]

this makes no sense.

If we did not sin, Christ would not have had to die. Why would Christ die for sins not commited?

The OSAS doctrine would basically allow those same sins that Christ died for to be allowed in heaven. It is just that simple. Sinners who won't repent their sins and refrain from them are not allowed eternal life.

 

[biscuit]

this makes no sense.

If we did not sin, Christ would not have had to die. Why would Christ die for sins not commited?

You may want to find another poster to explain it to you.

 

[SeaBass]

What is so blind as someone who goes on pontificating from his imagination or denominational tradition without reference to scripture? Seabass made no mention of scripture at all -- he just made assertions. Do you even notice it when persons of your denomination just up & say things without Bible proof? Do you notice it yourself in your own postings?

The entrance of God's Word brings light.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

The scripture mentioned was 1 Tim 3:6 "Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil."

But how can he be called a novice/new convert/new believer if he was never really saved/always an unbeliever/never converted?

And how can he fall into condemnation if he were always in condemnation? Logically one must first be OUT of condemnation (saved) in order to fall into condemnation.

 

[SeaBass]

Thus saith SeaBass. But what does God's Word say?
SeaBass, I do not believe your statements, but I do believe God's:

1 John 2 explains apostasy:

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us.

Apostasy proves that the apostates were never "of us," not part of the Body of Christ, never baptised with the Spirit (1 Cor 12:13), never trusted Christ as Savior. There are many pretenders, church members who joined a church without being saved. Are you one of those?

Can you actually say that the Lord Jesus is your Savior & not just your "chance-giver"? Do you believe that He will save you from your sins, that you are guaranteed salvation from your sins as one of "His people"? (Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.)

Note how this passage is a strong eternal security passage. "If they had been of us, they would have continued with us"!!!

If any reading this is a professed Christian who regards the Lord Jesus as merely a chance-giver, instead of a Savior, let him repent & actually trust the Lord Jesus as Savior -- trust Him with your eternal destiny.

John may have been talking about anti-christs who were never of them, but that is a specific case not the general rule.

In that same context, John says Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 1 Jn 2:24

It was their responsibility to let what they were taught to abide in them and not be seduced, v26 by the anti-christs.. If they did not let it abide in them and become seduced, then they will not continue in the Son.

In Acts 15;5 there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed. There were Pharisees that had been converted to Christianity (Acts 6:7) but were still clinging to the OT law.

James says in v24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

So there were false brethren, Christians which came out from the church at Jerusalem spreading false teachings, just as the anti-christs John wrote about. They were preaching false things that had not been commanded by the apostles and subverting souls.


------------------------------


Jn 3:5----------------spirit+++++++++water>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1Co12:13-----------spirit++++++++baptized>>>>>>>in the body

1 Cor 12:13 is the water baptism of Jn 3:5, the water baptism Paul used to baptize some of the Corinthians himself, 1 Cor 1;14,16.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

this makes no sense.

If we did not sin, Christ would not have had to die. Why would Christ die for sins not commited?

You may want to find another poster to explain it to you.

explain what?

That Christ died for my sins, meaning my sins (if I am given his gift) he paid for are forgiven?

That is what scripture says. so you tell me. what sins did Christ not die for?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The OSAS doctrine would basically allow those same sins that Christ died for to be allowed in heaven.

where do you get this from? this is the worse argument I have ever heard. How could those sins be allowed in heaven? There will be no sin in heaven.

It is just that simple. Sinners who won't repent their sins and refrain from them are not allowed eternal life.

So are you sinless?? If not. You have not met your own requirement.

the fact is. No one can be saved according to your gospel. Which is no good news at all

 

[kennethcadwell]

That is your assumption. I do believe in eternal salvation that you get after you have went through and endured the personal trials and tribulations.

I am against OSAS as it is taught in most churches. That one can go on after being in a saved state and continue in willful sin and still be in that saved state. They teach one only has to repent once do to past, present, and future sins are forgiven, but only the past and present sins are forgiven at time of repentance. You still have to repent and ask forgiveness of future sins when you commit them.

I also do not believe in one sin being worse than another except for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit ( non-belief/denial ). All other sins besides this are equal in Gods eyes. Our Lord makes that evident when He compares hatred to murder and so forth.

This is why I am against the OSAS philosophy, because its teaching in a lot of churches is dangerous to ones salvation.
Scriptures make it very evident that one who is in a saved state can not continue in willful sin, or they will be cut off unless they repent.

What sin is it that would cause someone to lose their salvation?
James said that if you offend the law at any point,you have broken the whole thing...ie.... someone throws a little rock at your windshield and puts a small crack in it,someone else throws a large rock and smashes your windshield.

You see,wheather its a small rock or a large rock the windshield needs to be repaired.
with men maybe its ok to live with the cracked windshield but not the smashed windshield;But with GOD sin will not be tolerated wheather its big or small.

So what I'm trying to say is sins someone commits even if it is gluttony is not acceptable because it too is habitual sin,is there anyone guilty of overeating?

The flesh is weak.

Only GOD is perfect.

people who are totally against the OSAS are people who are really into big sins are wrong and small sin is not bad.
That would be true from mans point of view but not before GOD.

 

[newbirth]

[/B][/COLOR]

lol.. You must not believe in many things.

I just don't believe your doctrine

So now your God and you know my heart. Why are you here? It is obvious yuo have no desire to listen to anyone.

Matthew 12:34

O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Even demons believe yet tremble Faith which is not followed by works is dead. Can that faith save you? No. Why, It is merely belief.

learn the difference between mere belief and faith (I know a broken record. You have no desire to learn, that is quite obvious)

now you start to babble demons don't have the faith that God gives but their belief result in a work (tremble) We believe and are baptized and walk in the light...you just believe...and say you are saved

No. They saw proof that he could do it. And believed he could, Because he proved it by doing it many times. (they would have to lie to say he could not do it. because he just did)

They had no faith he could do it the next time, and not fail.

Again, You do not want to see this. Thats why you refuse to see.

more babble....did they see him carry someone, no , he was just carrying a weight. they had no proof he could carry anyone. Based on what he did they said they believed he could carry someone, not them, probably an assistant.

your reasoning is boxed

 

[Atwood]

your reasoning is boxed

Good Evening NewB.

I commend you on scripture-mining.
Do you mind if I recommend to you reading the whole Bible and marking all the salvation passages? I think pink is the color to use, as the blood of Christ ran red.

As an aside, it just came to my mind the gospel illustration. The color of sin in the Bible is red rather than black. Though your sins be as scarlet, etc. If you take a white piece of paper and mark it with a red marker SIN, then you put on red glasses (like the old 3D glasses that had red & blue lenses -- but not using blue), and you look at the white piece of paper, the word SIN in red will disappear (the shade of red on the marker has to be the same shade as the glasses to get the best effect.)

Just so the blood of the Lord Jesus cleanses from sin. If our sins are seen through the blood of Jesus, they disappear.
"They shall be as white as snow."

 

[biscuit]

[/I][/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]where do you get this from? this is the worse argument I have ever heard. How could those sins be allowed in heaven? There will be no sin in heaven.



So are you sinless?? If not. You have not met your own requirement.

the fact is. No one can be saved according to your gospel. Which is no good news at all

Of course you don't have an answer to my posts because you can't find one for your own post. LOL!!