ONCE saved always saved!.

[SeaBass]

How can I ever come boldly before the throne of grace if I am always in fear of losing my salvation? If Romans 10:9,10 says that I am saved when I confess Jesus as Lord and believe in my heart that God raised from the dead - then I am saved. I am born again of God's Spirit.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever. The first time we are born; we are born of corruptible seed, being born again - we are born of incorruptible seed by the word of God - [faith comes by hearing and hearing from the word of God].

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. God knows we will sin in the flesh because he made provision for us if we should sin (1 John 1:9), so where does someone who is born again NOT commit sin? Do we sin in the flesh or in the Spirit?

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that you sin not [break fellowship - context of 1 John 1]. And if any man sin [break fellowship], we have an advocate [defender or mediator] with the Father, Jesus Christ [our defender] the righteous. A son/daughter of God can get out of fellowship but cannot get out of fellowship so far that he is no longer a son/daughter.

In my earthly family I am a daughter of my parents - How long will I be their daughter? As long as I live. That is my "standing" within my family. My "standing" in my heavenly family, in the family of God, is as a daughter. How long will I be a daughter? As long as I live. The new birth, the Spirit is incorruptible and remains in me.

My behavior determines my "state" within my earthly family and my behavior also determines my "state" [fellowship]within my heavenly family. My position [standing] as a daughter has no bearing whatsoever upon what I do but my "state" is directly affected by my actions.

IOW . . . If after I am born again, I don't have much knowledge in the word and I continued to sin. Now my "state" [fellowship] in my heavenly family is not in alignment and harmony; i.e. I am now out of fellowship - but my "standing" as a daughter is still secure. How can I get back into perfect fellowship with God? 1 John 1:9.

Christ in you is sonship, your standing with God, but you in Christ is fellowship, your state in the family.

Again salvation is a gift and is by grace - you are continually trying to make salvation by works -

As long as the Christian walks in the light he knows he will not lose salvation.

Salvation does require works of obedience, Heb 5:9. It's man made doctrines that try to get rid of Heb 5:9 and it's based on the misunderstanding some have that works automatically means one is trying to earn something. and refusing to understand free gifts can come with conditions and working to meet those conditions earn nothing.

 

[SeaBass]

How do you twist 1 Timothy 3
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

How could a novice meaning a young saved one fall into the same condemnation as the devil if OSAS is true.

That's because OSAS is false.

The OSAS advocates may use the novice was "never really saved to begin with" excuse.

But how can he be called a novice/new convert/new believer if he was never really saved/always an unbeliever/never converted?

And how can he fall into condemnation if he were always in condemnation? Logically one must first be OUT of condemnation (saved) in order to fall into condemnation.

 

[SeaBass]

I find much of this debate to be purely theoretical, and not something that occurs in reality.

If a person falls away, did they ever truly know Christ?
In the only cases that I know of where someone has 'fallen away', they were raised in a Christian home, and considered themselves 'Christians', but were really only doing it for social reasons, or because of.... brainwashing by the parents.

There is another case which occurs in congregations with concert style worship, or highly emotional preaching,
where a person gets an emotional high from the meeting, and assumes that the emotion had spiritual impact. They say it is conversion, but the truth is that they have their faith in an emotion, not Christ.

There is a parable about soil which describes the types of people who fall away.

They were never saved. (John 6 explains this well)

See post #522. The "never really saved to begin with" excuse cannot work in all cases.

 

[newbirth]

Belief is an mental agreement.

I can agree, yet not trust (faith)

Faitj is a trust, and assurance, that what you believe will actually happen.

I heard a good example a few weeks. ago.

A high wire walker spent the day walking across a high wire, eventually, he putt a wheel barrow on the line, and filled it with enough weight to resemble a human body. And he walked across quite a few times. A crowed gathered, After about an hour, he turned to the crowd, and asked a question.

Do you believe I can take a person across in this wheelbarrow. Not one person said no. They all BELIEVED HE COULD DO IT.

so he then asked. WHo wants to go. Not one person said yes. why? NO ONE TRUSTED HIM, they did not have an ASSURANCE he would make it.

they believed he could do it. But they had no faith he could do it, proven by the fact they did not work ( say yes, I will do it)

this is about as simple as you can get to point out how one can believe in something, having a mental agreement (Demons believe yet tremble) yet have no faith at all in the same thing, because they have no assurance of what they believe will really happen (lack of trust) thats why they will claim they believe, but have no work to show it, because their belief is in agreement only. Not in assurance (faith)

that theory is foolishness... if you believe something the proof of your belief is your response.

Do you believe I can take a person across in this wheelbarrow. Not one person said no. They all BELIEVED HE COULD DO IT.

Of course they all believed he could carry someone no one said they believed he could carry them personally. He asked the wrong question. They had faith he could do it with someone. On the one hand you say all you have to do is believe then on the other hand you are saying it is not mare belief ,you are confused

 

[eternally-gratefull]

that theory is foolishness... if you believe something the proof of your belief is your response.

Thats not true at all. I believe in alot of things, It does not mean I will take a step of faith to do anything.

I believe a rollercoaster will not kill me or hurt me. But you will not find me on one, because I do not trust them at all..

What is foolishness is to think just because you believe in something, it will actually get you to do anything.

Of course they all believed he could carry someone no one said they believed he could carry them personally. He asked the wrong question. They had faith he could do it with someone. On the one hand you say all you have to do is believe then on the other hand you are saying it is not mare belief ,you are confused

wow,. what a way to skirt the issue. It is obvious you are not open to change. You twist everything and do not even look at the real picture.

He never asked them if they had faith for a reason. to see if they truely did. They said they believed. The fact they did not WORK. or show ASSURANCE by getting in and let him do what he asked. proves they had no faith, their faith was dead. They had belief, but no faith.

 

[Alligator]

In most of these OSAS churches you can have pizza and a beer with the pastor.

LOL.."................

 

[eternally-gratefull]

LOL.."................

wonder if they laughed at Christ when he was at the local bar hanging out with sinners. because they needed help

 

[newbirth]

Thats not true at all. I believe in alot of things, It does not mean I will take a step of faith to do anything.

that's because you only say you believe

I believe a rollercoaster will not kill me or hurt me. But you will not find me on one, because I do not trust them at all..

you actually believe the rollercoaster ride will kill you if you get on it.

What is foolishness is to think just because you believe in something, it will actually get you to do anything.

believe on the Lord and thou shall be saved....

wow,. what a way to skirt the issue. It is obvious you are not open to change. You twist everything and do not even look at the real picture.

He never asked them if they had faith for a reason. to see if they truely did. They said they believed. The fact they did not WORK. or show ASSURANCE by getting in and let him do what he asked. proves they had no faith, their faith was dead. They had belief, but no faith.

they believed he could carry someone ...not them...just like you ...you believe the rollercoaster will not kill you ....as long as you don't get on it...You believe if you take a ride you may get a heart attack and die or it may fall and kill you..

If you believe you will if you don't you won't

 

[johnluke]

Originally posted by eternally-gratefull
The GIFT of God is eternal life.

Your taking Gods gift, and placing conditions on it When John and Jesus and everyone else says all you have to do is trust the gift, then recieve it.

The only instructions there are is how to USE IT once you get it to make your life on earth better. Not how to keep it.;

The gift of God is eternal life, but once you have received this free gift and you are in heaven, the reward you receive will depend on how much fruit your produced while you were on earth.

So trust in the gift, because it is free and you will be in heaven.

But if you want your life on earth to be more fullfilling, then live the way John and the apostles and Jesus taught you to live.

If you want to be rewarded in heaven and have a more fullfilling eternity, then live the way John and the apostles and Jesus taught you to live.

All scriptures are reconcilable. OSAS is true, no question. But the idea of keeping the commandments after OSAS will be to your advantage for this life and for all eternity is also true.

 

[biscuit]

The gift of God is eternal life, but once you have received this free gift and you are in heaven, the reward you receive will depend on how much fruit your produced while you were on earth.

So trust in the gift, because it is free and you will be in heaven.

But if you want your life on earth to be more fullfilling, then live the way John and the apostles and Jesus taught you to live.

If you want to be rewarded in heaven and have a more fullfilling eternity, then live the way John and the apostles and Jesus taught you to live.

All scriptures are reconcilable. OSAS is true, no question. But the idea of keeping the commandments after OSAS will be to your advantage for this life and for all eternity is also true.

I find it ironic that while Jesus was hanging on the cross, He was taking all the sins of the world unto Himself, and the Father turned away because the sight was too "disgusting" for Him to watch. Now here we are with this phony OSAS doctrine, which implies that those same filthy sins that Jesus absorbed on the cross and the Father could bear to watch, can now enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Such behavior & actions are not allowed in heaven and there are numerous of scriptures that states those sins are not allowed to enter God's Kingdom. I stated in an earlier post that the Church will be quite small because very few Christians will follow the Bible literally. One cannot dip in both God's world and the secular one. It is gonna be sad when most Christian will be left. When one is saved, he is a "new creature" and will not go back to those sinful ways. And if he does he needs to confess, repent and make amends to keep his slate clean with the Lord. Satan must be laughing his tail off knowing most Christians who follow this phony OSAS fluke will not have eternal life. But Jesus will give them a "second chance" to do it right with Him during TRibulation.

 

[Cassian]

That's because OSAS is false.

The OSAS advocates may use the novice was "never really saved to begin with" excuse.

But how can he be called a novice/new convert/new believer if he was never really saved/always an unbeliever/never converted?

And how can he fall into condemnation if he were always in condemnation? Logically one must first be OUT of condemnation (saved) in order to fall into condemnation.

Well, what can one say, but that some just like to be blind.

 

[Cassian]

See post #522. The "never really saved to begin with" excuse cannot work in all cases.

It does not work in any case. When one believes, repents, is baptised, they have taken posession of the promise. From that point on it can ONLY be falling away. There just is not such thing as were never saved unless one never believed.

 

[Atwood]

I find it ironic that while Jesus was hanging on the cross, He was taking all the sins of the world unto Himself, and the Father turned away because the sight was too "disgusting" for Him to watch. Now here we are with this phony OSAS doctrine, which implies that those same filthy sins that Jesus absorbed on the cross and the Father could bear to watch, can now enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Such behavior & actions are not allowed in heaven and there are numerous of scriptures that states those sins are not allowed to enter God's Kingdom. I stated in an earlier post that the Church will be quite small because very few Christians will follow the Bible literally. One cannot dip in both God's world and the secular one. It is gonna be sad when most Christian will be left. When one is saved, he is a "new creature" and will not go back to those sinful ways. And if he does he needs to confess, repent and make amends to keep his slate clean with the Lord. Satan must be laughing his tail off knowing most Christians who follow this phony OSAS fluke will not have eternal life. But Jesus will give them a "second chance" to do it right with Him during TRibulation.

Let it be noted that the above is just buscuit saying things, exercising his freedom of speech; it has no Bible proof; so it is a dud for doctrine.

Let this sink in:

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

If any have down-rated the Lord Jesus to a "chance-giver," let him repent & trust the Lord Jesus as Savior.

I give them eternal life, & they shall never perish.

 

[Atwood]

Another Thread Started on Same Subject

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/91892-satanic-heresy-deny-eternal-security.html

Of course the title of this thread is misleading, it assumes that "once saved always saved" is a cogent title; as if "saved" didn't mean always. How can you be saved without being saved? If you end up in the Lake of Fire, how could you have been saved from the Lake of Fire?

I wait for anyone to show me that "lose salvation" is even a topic in the Bible. Go ahead, quote me a verse where "lose salvation" occurs.

The proper title would be OSS = once saved, saved! or Eternal Security, which BTW is even in the OT (parallel/relevant NT passages are added):


< ps 138
thy right hand will save me.
YHWH will perfect that which concerns me:
Thy lovingkindness, O YHWH, endures forever;

Heb 11:19ff

And these all, having had witness borne to them throughtheir faith [the faith they had as believers], received not the promise, God having provided some better thing concerning us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect. Therefore let us also, seeing we are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, looking unto
Jesus the author and perfecter of our faith [the faith that we have as believers], who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,


Isaiah 26:12
YHWH, you wilt ordain peace for us; for
You have also wrought all our works for us.

< Eph 2
but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenlyplaces, in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, that no man should glory. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for
good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

Philip 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.

Anyone who has downgraded the Savior to a mere "chance-giver," needs to repent & to trust the Lord Jesus as Savior.

 

[biscuit]

I have faith that many posters knows the truth ... and who recognize the wolves in "sheep clothing." My posts are not to shove my beliefs down someone's throat as a few posters on this thread are, but to serve as a wake up call since their "eternal life" will depend on it. If they choose to listen to a false doctrine, then it will be their downfall. There are a few posters on this thread who really have "serious mental issues."

 

[Atwood]

Well, what can one say, but that some just like to be blind.

What is so blind as someone who goes on pontificating from his imagination or denominational tradition without reference to scripture? Seabass made no mention of scripture at all -- he just made assertions. Do you even notice it when persons of your denomination just up & say things without Bible proof? Do you notice it yourself in your own postings?

The entrance of God's Word brings light.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[Atwood]

If they choose to listen to a false doctrine, then it will be their downfall.

Listen to . t r u e . d o c t r i n e :

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

Now if any have sold the Lord Jesus short, labeling Him a mere "chance-giver" instead of the Savior,
let him repent, and trust the Crucified as his Savior.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved.
No ifs, ands, or buts.

 

[Hashe]

This must be such a faith defining issue.

 

[Atwood]

See post #522. The "never really saved to begin with" excuse cannot work in all cases.

Thus saith SeaBass. But what does God's Word say?
SeaBass, I do not believe your statements, but I do believe God's:

1 John 2 explains apostasy:

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us.

Apostasy proves that the apostates were never "of us," not part of the Body of Christ, never baptised with the Spirit (1 Cor 12:13), never trusted Christ as Savior. There are many pretenders, church members who joined a church without being saved. Are you one of those?

Can you actually say that the Lord Jesus is your Savior & not just your "chance-giver"? Do you believe that He will save you from your sins, that you are guaranteed salvation from your sins as one of "His people"? (Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.)

Note how this passage is a strong eternal security passage. "If they had been of us, they would have continued with us"!!!

If any reading this is a professed Christian who regards the Lord Jesus as merely a chance-giver, instead of a Savior, let him repent & actually trust the Lord Jesus as Savior -- trust Him with your eternal destiny.

 

[biscuit]

This must be such a faith defining issue.

Agree!! If OSAS is a false doctrine, then it will have incredible repercussions for Christians and most will be left behind. Know for a fact from Revelation (& Bible) reading that the "raptured" Church will be very small and the "revival of faith" during the Tribulation Period, will be incredibly HUGE. Not only is it about faith but also the "requirements" that are attached to them.