ONE BAPTISM - Ephesians 4:5
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The Holy Spirit is not a gift. Salvation is a gift. When one receives a gift from the Holy Spirit it is for ministry. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are in 1 Corinthians if you need a list also in Romans. The gifts of helps, administration and of course faith to name but a few.
Too bad you never learned correct exegesis of the verse.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Too bad you never learned correct exegesis of the verse.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Jesus gave the apostles and disciples the Holy Spirit in John 20. They did not receive and water baptism at that time.
The Holy Spirit was promised before Christ was crucified and given after Christ has resurrected.
Why do you resist the obvious truth? The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the cleansing baptism that water could never accomplish. It is a purification by Holy Spirit fire that makes one righteous before God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The Holy Spirit was promised before Christ was crucified and given after Christ has resurrected.
Why do you resist the obvious truth? The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the cleansing baptism that water could never accomplish. It is a purification by Holy Spirit fire that makes one righteous before God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Mt 16:18 "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
"will build' is future tense.
"My" shows Who is the owner of the church
"church" is singular.
It is not heresy or rejection of truth but a fact that God's word will not be found in contradictions creating by men.
"Baptismal regeneration" means different things to different people but the bible does teach a believer is to be baptized to be saved, MK 16:16. The thief is not an example of NT salvation for he was promised paradise while living under the OT law. Christ's NT gospel would not come into effect unto some point AFTER Christ died, Heb 9:16,17 which means the thief wa not accountable to Mk 16;16 or Acts 2:38 for he lived BEFORE this came into effect. We today live AFTER so we are accountable to Christ's NT gospel.
Man-made contradiction cannot bring anyone to Christ/salvation, not possible at all. The bible condemns the contradictions.
Baptism with the HS occurs just twice in the NT, 1) the apostles in Acts 2 and 2) Gentiles in Acts 10. IN neither case was anyone commanded to be baptized with the HS. With the apostles God baptized with the HS to fulfill His promise to them about Him sending them the Comforter. With the Gentiles God did it to prove to the Jews salvation was not meant just for the Jews but Gentiles also. So no verse exists where anyone was commanded to be baptized with the HS. Only God can baptize with the HS and how can anyone command God to baptize them with the HS? But one can choose to obey the command to be water baptized.
Brother Sea Bass, don't give up on us, please. I've prayed since my last post that The Lord would heal you from our disagreement and while I was posting that last post I felt that it would be better to let you guys work this out and one hour after I posted, a brother came on and gave the verses that I wanted to post.
I'm only posting them now so we know what we're saying without having to go back to find it -
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Brother, I've left two threads when things got heated and this wasn't one of them. I just can't handle when the font get big. That's like posting in all caps to me. We can communicate on the same level and not get 'bigger' than those we differ with. That's what the large font seems to me. And then the name calling was in that one also and everything but Scripture for Scripture but fairy tale names and that sort of one-up-manship style of "biting and devouring".
The other thread was where I was being partially quoted and there's a crafty way of posting that attempts to make it look as if what you're saying is what they want others to think you're saying. That's craft. No thread is worth staying on when you have to keep correcting a person on how they're supposedly 'quoting you'. Been there before and I know that m.o..
Love doesn't do these things and without Love - we're not saved.
I enjoyed getting into the grammar with you on that other thread. It is certainly the highway to prove out a "Truth".
Like in John 3:16, that everyone knows - the word in the KJV "believeth" is a present active participle which as you know is "a continuous action". So it's "whosoever is continuously believing". Just figured you'd like that too.
And then we go to all of the cross-references to 'continue in the faith' type verses.
I love exegesis and hermeneutics and love to share that love with others that do as well. Sure beats the days that as an 'adult' I still liked using my crayons & coloring books during my free time.
I'm still new here but it's been my only fellowship with The Church except for phone calls from out of State friends. I tried 5 different churches in the area but didn't feel at home at any but feel at home here. Just need to ride the waves but will continue to avoid any tsunamis.
Bless you & yours today!
I'm only posting them now so we know what we're saying without having to go back to find it -
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Brother, I've left two threads when things got heated and this wasn't one of them. I just can't handle when the font get big. That's like posting in all caps to me. We can communicate on the same level and not get 'bigger' than those we differ with. That's what the large font seems to me. And then the name calling was in that one also and everything but Scripture for Scripture but fairy tale names and that sort of one-up-manship style of "biting and devouring".
The other thread was where I was being partially quoted and there's a crafty way of posting that attempts to make it look as if what you're saying is what they want others to think you're saying. That's craft. No thread is worth staying on when you have to keep correcting a person on how they're supposedly 'quoting you'. Been there before and I know that m.o..
Love doesn't do these things and without Love - we're not saved.
I enjoyed getting into the grammar with you on that other thread. It is certainly the highway to prove out a "Truth".
Like in John 3:16, that everyone knows - the word in the KJV "believeth" is a present active participle which as you know is "a continuous action". So it's "whosoever is continuously believing". Just figured you'd like that too.
And then we go to all of the cross-references to 'continue in the faith' type verses.
I love exegesis and hermeneutics and love to share that love with others that do as well. Sure beats the days that as an 'adult' I still liked using my crayons & coloring books during my free time.
I'm still new here but it's been my only fellowship with The Church except for phone calls from out of State friends. I tried 5 different churches in the area but didn't feel at home at any but feel at home here. Just need to ride the waves but will continue to avoid any tsunamis.
Bless you & yours today!
EPh 4:5 says there is ONE baptism, so people today cannot be both water baptized and "spirit" baptized.
NO one today is baptized with the HS for that baptism does not exist. Note how the eunuch was WATER baptized NOT baptized with the HS. This must mean the baptism of 1 Cor 1:14,16 and 1 Cor 12:13 MUST be the same ONE baptism. Only God can baptize with the HOLY Spirit so Paul a human/disciple could administer water baptism. So 1 Cor 12:113 must be that same ONE water baptism as 1 Cor 1:14,16. Men have invented "spirit baptism" today to avoid, or try to find away to get around, the necessity of water baptism. The fact water baptism has been commanded makes it necessary if for no other reason.
C
To the first line - yes, I understood that and notuptome's post that your posted to was written for SeaBass - is what I meant. Not meaning to confuse here.
I agree with what you've written here. My reason for applying those verses from Acts 10 was that I do believe that they would not have 'received the Holy Spirit' [vs 47] unless they were saved at that time and then they were baptized in water after receiving His Spirit. God knew these folks "got it" as He even cut off Peter's sermon to finish the work Himself, so that HE got the Glory and not Peter. I think in His Word - He doesn't stay in 'our box' but will do things differently for very good reasons.
Let me just throw this out there about those that teach OSAS from the "election" point of view - my only answer is - We are "elect according to the 'foreknowledge' of God", Peter said --- in that God "forknew" who would remain faithful unto the end - so yes, in that case - if God "forknew" who would continue in obedience to His Word by faith until their life ends or repents and are restored - then yes, the elect are OSAS - but only He knows who those are because we're all still alive. Could be why I've appreciated Phil 3 as much as I do and see it in Paul's writings elsewhere, besides in vs 3:11.
I do believe that a person can fall away and that we're seeing that apostasy in these last 3 decades especially.
Thank you for the reply, Brother!
I agree with what you've written here. My reason for applying those verses from Acts 10 was that I do believe that they would not have 'received the Holy Spirit' [vs 47] unless they were saved at that time and then they were baptized in water after receiving His Spirit. God knew these folks "got it" as He even cut off Peter's sermon to finish the work Himself, so that HE got the Glory and not Peter. I think in His Word - He doesn't stay in 'our box' but will do things differently for very good reasons.
Let me just throw this out there about those that teach OSAS from the "election" point of view - my only answer is - We are "elect according to the 'foreknowledge' of God", Peter said --- in that God "forknew" who would remain faithful unto the end - so yes, in that case - if God "forknew" who would continue in obedience to His Word by faith until their life ends or repents and are restored - then yes, the elect are OSAS - but only He knows who those are because we're all still alive. Could be why I've appreciated Phil 3 as much as I do and see it in Paul's writings elsewhere, besides in vs 3:11.
I do believe that a person can fall away and that we're seeing that apostasy in these last 3 decades especially.
Thank you for the reply, Brother!
The one baptism that saves is the Holy Spirit baptism. Water baptism is a tradition handed down from our Jewish forefathers.
It is the abiding presence of the Holy Spirit that guides us into the truth of Gods word. It is the witness of the Holy spirit with our spirit that gives evidence that we are Christ's.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
It is the abiding presence of the Holy Spirit that guides us into the truth of Gods word. It is the witness of the Holy spirit with our spirit that gives evidence that we are Christ's.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
C
Hi Brother! I differ on the Holy Spirit baptism 'not existing' but I agree with you on the verse you reference, that it is talking about water baptism.
The Holy Spirit baptism that we see in Acts, starting at Pentecost was spoken of by the Baptist & fulfilled in Acts - Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire.
I'm sure you have a concordance, Brother - there are more than just 'one' use of the term baptizmo [G907].
Granted it's a lot of work to find everywhere that term is used and how it's used - but that doesn't make what you're saying wrong about which baptism is used in Eph 4:5. I agree that it's water baptism.
The Holy Spirit baptism that we see in Acts, starting at Pentecost was spoken of by the Baptist & fulfilled in Acts - Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire.
I'm sure you have a concordance, Brother - there are more than just 'one' use of the term baptizmo [G907].
Granted it's a lot of work to find everywhere that term is used and how it's used - but that doesn't make what you're saying wrong about which baptism is used in Eph 4:5. I agree that it's water baptism.
Matthew 12:31
31Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
SeaBass,
Some of us here, me included, have been anointed with the Holy Spirit and have it dwelling inside of us today (Praise be to God our Father and Jesus Christ our Savior!) and that without having been immersed in water prior to receiving the Holy Spirit (with the exception of being in our mother's womb). We are not against water baptism but we know it is not a necessary work to receive the Holy Spirit from personal experience. The Holy Spirit comes after faith in Jesus Christ. You are denying this because the Holy Spirit is foreign to your fleshly mind as it was to ours prior to receiving it while we served the will of man thinking we did well. I was a catholic for almost 33 years and the works performed in obedience to the catholic faith did not bring me any closer to God than if I was sitting on my couch thinking about Him. Faith avails much, works do nothing but blind the believer into thinking they are good with God even though they remain a slave to sin.
Matthew 23:25
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. 26Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
31Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
SeaBass,
Some of us here, me included, have been anointed with the Holy Spirit and have it dwelling inside of us today (Praise be to God our Father and Jesus Christ our Savior!) and that without having been immersed in water prior to receiving the Holy Spirit (with the exception of being in our mother's womb). We are not against water baptism but we know it is not a necessary work to receive the Holy Spirit from personal experience. The Holy Spirit comes after faith in Jesus Christ. You are denying this because the Holy Spirit is foreign to your fleshly mind as it was to ours prior to receiving it while we served the will of man thinking we did well. I was a catholic for almost 33 years and the works performed in obedience to the catholic faith did not bring me any closer to God than if I was sitting on my couch thinking about Him. Faith avails much, works do nothing but blind the believer into thinking they are good with God even though they remain a slave to sin.
Matthew 23:25
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. 26Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
I'm not resisting the truth, as I said, those in Samaria didn't receive the Holy Spirit until after they were baptized. I've already pointed out that Cornelius' house is the only event recorded where the Holy Spirit was bestowed before water baptism. The position you're arguing for requires that the exception overturn the rule, that's not logical. Peter is clear that water baptism is an appeal to God. That appeal is for the forgiveness of sins. The cleansing that God performs is done in the water. If you study God's use of water it should become rather clear that God uses water to bring life.
I would also submit that the baptism of fire is not the cleansing but rather the wicked being cast into Gehenna.
I would also submit that the baptism of fire is not the cleansing but rather the wicked being cast into Gehenna.
Acts is carrying out the Christ great commission, [Mt 28:19,20; Mk 16:15,16; Acts 24:47] that involved disciples/humans going, teaching and water baptizing as with the eunuch.
Acts 8:29 "Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot."
Why would the spirit send Phillip to preach to the eunuch then water baptize him? Why didn't the spirit just miraculous "illuminate" the understanding of the eunuch / act directly on his heart then "spirit baptize" him instead of sending Phillip to preach to him and water baptized him?