original sin
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the context of that is "we" not HE. Jesus body is an eternal reminder of the Price HE paid to save US. The Body is eternalHIS BODY" why?
Because it is a living Testimony for the eternality of eternal life. The Spirit of Christ has always been. The Body of Jesus came to be.
Jesus literally Died, and literally rose again in that Body which all witnesses to and died not to deny. IF it is only spiritually Jesus rose there is no testimony in that. 1. it is unbiblical 2. that is Gnosticism 101 3. Apostles died for false testimony. They did not testify Jesus rose from the Dead spirituality Thet testified HE the Lord Jesus risen from the dead literally. It is unbiblical you say otherwise and it is even antichrist as 1 John 4 says.
Because it is a living Testimony for the eternality of eternal life. The Spirit of Christ has always been. The Body of Jesus came to be.
Jesus literally Died, and literally rose again in that Body which all witnesses to and died not to deny. IF it is only spiritually Jesus rose there is no testimony in that. 1. it is unbiblical 2. that is Gnosticism 101 3. Apostles died for false testimony. They did not testify Jesus rose from the Dead spirituality Thet testified HE the Lord Jesus risen from the dead literally. It is unbiblical you say otherwise and it is even antichrist as 1 John 4 says.
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Humanity was given the blessing of fertility specifically for the purpose of
populating the earth and subduing it. Well; the angels' purpose and way of
life is very different. They are an organization of celestial beings engaged in
a variety of capacities other than populating, conquering, and/or colonizing.
Folks who make it to the resurrection that Jesus spoke of won't be returning
to their old way of life. They too, like the angels, will be an organization
engaged in a variety of capacities other than populating, conquering, and/or
colonization; and they will be kept very busy getting things done in accord
with God's expectations.
• Heb 2:5 . . It is not to angels that He has subjected the world to come,
about which we are speaking.
• Rev 21:1 . . And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven
and the first earth were passed away
_
Humanity was given the blessing of fertility specifically for the purpose of
populating the earth and subduing it. Well; the angels' purpose and way of
life is very different. They are an organization of celestial beings engaged in
a variety of capacities other than populating, conquering, and/or colonizing.
Folks who make it to the resurrection that Jesus spoke of won't be returning
to their old way of life. They too, like the angels, will be an organization
engaged in a variety of capacities other than populating, conquering, and/or
colonization; and they will be kept very busy getting things done in accord
with God's expectations.
• Heb 2:5 . . It is not to angels that He has subjected the world to come,
about which we are speaking.
• Rev 21:1 . . And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven
and the first earth were passed away
_
When God first created living creatures, He created them with the ability to create offsprings after their kind. So when the original creation of man sinned because they disobeyed and followed their own will, this tendency was handed down to their offsprings. God is not punishing us because of their sin, He is punishing each individual for their own sins.
Isaiah 55: 33-36 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Romans 11: Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgements and His ways past finding out! For who hath known the mind of the Lord? Or who hath been His counselor? Or who hath first given to Him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again. For of (by) Him, and through Him, and to Him, are all things: to whom be glory forever.
Psalm 89:14 Righteousness and Justice are the habitation of Thy throne; Mercy and Truth shall go before Thy face.
Romans 9: 19-23 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted His will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to Him that formed it, Why hast thou formed me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor? What if God, willing to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction; And that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy , which He had before prepared unto glory,
God knew in advance that He was going to implement a plan of redemption for His fallen creation that would include a perfect manifestation of His Justice and a perfect expression of His Love and Mercy. The choices for God are: 1) Let Justice prevail and all humans go to hell or 2) All humans get saved or 3) Some humans get saved. If all humans go to hell, then God would not be Merciful. If all humans get saved, then His Kingdom would be full of disobedient humans that don't have to worry about the consequences of wrong-doing and therefore no Justice. His only choice is to save a few.
Romans 9: 15-16 For He saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So, then, it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy.
Isaiah 55: 33-36 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Romans 11: Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgements and His ways past finding out! For who hath known the mind of the Lord? Or who hath been His counselor? Or who hath first given to Him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again. For of (by) Him, and through Him, and to Him, are all things: to whom be glory forever.
Psalm 89:14 Righteousness and Justice are the habitation of Thy throne; Mercy and Truth shall go before Thy face.
Romans 9: 19-23 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted His will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to Him that formed it, Why hast thou formed me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor? What if God, willing to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction; And that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy , which He had before prepared unto glory,
God knew in advance that He was going to implement a plan of redemption for His fallen creation that would include a perfect manifestation of His Justice and a perfect expression of His Love and Mercy. The choices for God are: 1) Let Justice prevail and all humans go to hell or 2) All humans get saved or 3) Some humans get saved. If all humans go to hell, then God would not be Merciful. If all humans get saved, then His Kingdom would be full of disobedient humans that don't have to worry about the consequences of wrong-doing and therefore no Justice. His only choice is to save a few.
Romans 9: 15-16 For He saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So, then, it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy.
you're imagining they are unrepentant, stupid, and belligerent.
but God didn't say, "lest they eat more of the tree of the knowledge of good from evil" -- & i think He knows better than we do.
why didn't they eat of the tree of life after their transgression?
they had enough time to sew tunics from fig leaves, & to hide, before God came to call to account & hold court.
how much time would it take you to gather fig leaves, make a needle, gather vine, prepare it, and then sew enough of them together for two garments? more than the 5 seconds it would take to reach out and take a fruit from the other tree?
so why not?
were they not as intelligent as you? did they not realize they could 'have their cake and eat it too' with 5 seconds of minimal effort?
maybe their bellies were too full and they were planning on waiting for lunch the next day!
so whose idea was it not to eat of the tree of life? did Adam & his wife have a conversation about that? had Adam thought this through beforehand, 'what if she's deceived, and she eats, what steps should i take?'
was Adam wise enough not to do this, or were they such idiots that it never occurred to them?
but God didn't say, "lest they eat more of the tree of the knowledge of good from evil" -- & i think He knows better than we do.
why didn't they eat of the tree of life after their transgression?
they had enough time to sew tunics from fig leaves, & to hide, before God came to call to account & hold court.
how much time would it take you to gather fig leaves, make a needle, gather vine, prepare it, and then sew enough of them together for two garments? more than the 5 seconds it would take to reach out and take a fruit from the other tree?
so why not?
were they not as intelligent as you? did they not realize they could 'have their cake and eat it too' with 5 seconds of minimal effort?
maybe their bellies were too full and they were planning on waiting for lunch the next day!
so whose idea was it not to eat of the tree of life? did Adam & his wife have a conversation about that? had Adam thought this through beforehand, 'what if she's deceived, and she eats, what steps should i take?'
was Adam wise enough not to do this, or were they such idiots that it never occurred to them?
how does God count their eating from the tree against them if they had no idea it was wrong to do so?
how does God count disobeying His command against them if they didn't even have a concept of 'it's right to obey' ?
why would God want to prevent them from knowing that they should choose good and reject evil?
why would He punish them with death because they found out that goodness is good?
that's a thoughtless, extremely simplistic, and untenable view.
unfortunately it's what the modern church teaches almost ubiquitously.
how does God count disobeying His command against them if they didn't even have a concept of 'it's right to obey' ?
why would God want to prevent them from knowing that they should choose good and reject evil?
why would He punish them with death because they found out that goodness is good?
that's a thoughtless, extremely simplistic, and untenable view.
unfortunately it's what the modern church teaches almost ubiquitously.
OK so looks like in this discussion "eternal life" and "immortality" and "living forever" are being treated like different things.
can we sort out some definitions?
do we say God alone is "immortal" because He has 'indestructible life' ((c.f. Hebrews 7:16))
but Adam was created with "eternal life" ((a lesser thing?)) in the sense that the life he was given when he was made was not 'temporary' ((as the current life of our bodies, which begin to die as soon as we are born)) but it is possible that it could be overcome by death, through transgression?
i.e. if Adam had never eaten of the tree of dying-you-shall-die, would he have ever died?
could Adam have fallen out of a tree and broken his neck or something, would it have killed him or would he just be sore and naturally heal? was pain part of the original creation at all?
is eating the forbidden fruit the only way Adam could lose his life? was he in a state of perpetual & inevitable decay already, and the only thing keeping him from 'dying-you-shall-die' a steady diet of tree-of-life-fruit?
there are a number of ideas floating around in here...
can we sort out some definitions?
do we say God alone is "immortal" because He has 'indestructible life' ((c.f. Hebrews 7:16))
but Adam was created with "eternal life" ((a lesser thing?)) in the sense that the life he was given when he was made was not 'temporary' ((as the current life of our bodies, which begin to die as soon as we are born)) but it is possible that it could be overcome by death, through transgression?
i.e. if Adam had never eaten of the tree of dying-you-shall-die, would he have ever died?
could Adam have fallen out of a tree and broken his neck or something, would it have killed him or would he just be sore and naturally heal? was pain part of the original creation at all?
is eating the forbidden fruit the only way Adam could lose his life? was he in a state of perpetual & inevitable decay already, and the only thing keeping him from 'dying-you-shall-die' a steady diet of tree-of-life-fruit?
there are a number of ideas floating around in here...
why didn't they? they had opportunity.
kicking them out of the garden and keeping the way with a flaming sword seems to suggest that although they made the decision not to, after eating from the tree that brings death, God perceived that if they stayed in proximity to it, they eventually would -- and that they should not.
had they eaten from the tree of life before they ate from the tree of good from evil?
such that its presumed life-giving effect can be ((& was)) nullified/overcome by the death-giving effect of the other tree?
kicking them out of the garden and keeping the way with a flaming sword seems to suggest that although they made the decision not to, after eating from the tree that brings death, God perceived that if they stayed in proximity to it, they eventually would -- and that they should not.
had they eaten from the tree of life before they ate from the tree of good from evil?
such that its presumed life-giving effect can be ((& was)) nullified/overcome by the death-giving effect of the other tree?
Can you give any verse what-so-ever to show they were originally made immortal?
I don't believe there is one.
The physical/natural comes first and then the Spiritual according to 1 Cor 15:46. It goes on to say, The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. So how does one attain to the Spiritual if not through the second man? And how does one achieve that? The answers are clearly given in Scripture: by eating of the True Vine. Adam and Eve did not do that.
I don't believe there is one.
The physical/natural comes first and then the Spiritual according to 1 Cor 15:46. It goes on to say, The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. So how does one attain to the Spiritual if not through the second man? And how does one achieve that? The answers are clearly given in Scripture: by eating of the True Vine. Adam and Eve did not do that.
God formed him out of dust first, then breathed into him the breath of life -- and he became a living soul, when the physical, made first, had added to it the spiritual, given second 
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