OSAS= House Built on Sand

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preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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How about this scripture. Explain how they will be snatched from the hand of God!!....”
I akready explained that...you do not listen well.
That refer to our status after G-d awards us eternal salvation...which is done after death....not before.
 
Oct 16, 2018
83
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18
Being Submissive/ Faithful/Obedient To Him= Accurate

Just Believe/Accept Him as Saviour= Bad Translation in English

(Tranlations are mine from the Greek.
*All 41 occurrences of the Greek phrase
πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν
are listed below in context)​

Part I
Mat 18:6 ὅς δ᾿ ἂν σκανδαλίσῃ ἕνα τῶν μικρῶν τούτων τῶν πιστευόντων εἰς ἐμέ, συμφέρει αὐτῷ ἵνα κρεμασθῇ μύλος ὀνικὸς εἰς τὸν τράχηλον αὐτοῦ καὶ καταποντισθῇ ἐν τῷ πελάγει τῆς θαλάσσης.
Mat 18:6 “Whoever should cause one of these little ones who are continually submissive and faithful to me to sin, it is better for him that a millstone of a donkey be tied around his neck and he be submerged in the depth of the open sea.” (repeated in Mk 9:42)

Joh 1:12 ὅσοι δὲ ἔλαβον αὐτόν, ἔδωκεν αὐτοῖς ἐξουσίαν τέκνα Θεοῦ γενέσθαι, τοῖς πιστεύουσιν εἰς τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ,
Joh 1:12 As many people that received him, he gave to them the privilege to become children of God—to the ones that are continually submissive and obedient to his authority.

Joh 2:11 Ταύτην ἐποίησε ἀρχὴν τῶν σημείων ὁ ᾿Ιησοῦς ἐν Κανὰ τῆς Γαλιλαίας καὶ ἐφανέρωσε τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ, καὶ ἐπίστευσαν εἰς αὐτὸν οἱ μαθηταὶ αὐτοῦ.
Joh 2:11 This beginning of miraculous signs Yahshua performed in Cana of Galilee and he manifested his splendor. And his disciples were submissive to him.

Joh 2:23 ῾Ως δὲ ἦν τοῖς ῾Ιεροσολύμοις ἐν τῷ πάσχα ἐν τῇ ἑορτῇ, πολλοὶ ἐπίστευσαν εἰς τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ, θεωροῦντες αὐτοῦ τὰ σημεῖα ἃ ἐποίει.
Joh 2:23 While he was in Jerusalem during the festival of the Passover, many people were submissive to his authority as they were seeing the miracles that he did.

Joh 3:14 καὶ καθὼς Μωϋσῆς ὕψωσε τὸν ὄφιν ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ, οὕτως ὑψωθῆναι δεῖ τὸν Υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου,
Joh 3:15 ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται, ἀλλ᾿ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον.
Joh 3:16 οὕτω γὰρ ἡγάπησεν ὁ Θεὸς τὸν κόσμον, ὥστε τὸν υἱὸν αὐτοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ ἔδωκεν, ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται, ἀλλ᾿ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον.
Jn 3:14-16 “And in the same way that Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, it is necessary for the Son of Humanity likewise to be lifted up, in order that everyone who is continually faithful and submissive to him should not be destroyed, but instead, possess age-abiding Life. Because God in this manner was lovingly-devoted to the cosmos: to the point that he gave his one-of-a-kind son, in order that every person who is constantly submissive and obedient to him might not be destroyed, but instead possess age-abiding Life.”

Joh 3:18 ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν οὐ κρίνεται, ὁ δὲ μὴ πιστεύων ἤδη κέκριται, ὅτι μὴ πεπίστευκεν εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ μονογενοῦς Υἱοῦ τοῦ Θεοῦ.
Joh 3:18 “The one who is obedient to him is not judged; but the one who is not faithful is already judged, because he has not been submissive to the authority of the unique-in-kind son of God.

Joh 3:36 ὁ πιστεύων εἰς τὸν Υἱὸν ἔχει ζωὴν αἰώνιον· ὁ δὲ ἀπειθῶν τῷ Υἱῷ οὐκ ὄψεται ζωήν, ἀλλ᾿ ἡ ὀργὴ τοῦ Θεοῦ μένει ἐπ᾿ αὐτόν.
Joh 3:36 The person who is submissively being obedient to the son possesses age-abiding Life; but the person who is being disobedient to the son will not see Life. Instead, the wrath of God is remaining on top of him.

Joh 4:39 ᾿Εκ δὲ τῆς πόλεως ἐκείνης πολλοὶ ἐπίστευσαν εἰς αὐτὸν τῶν Σαμαριτῶν διὰ τὸν λόγον τῆς γυναικὸς, μαρτυρούσης ὅτι εἶπέ μοι πάντα ὅσα ἐποίησα.
Joh 4:39 Many people of the Samaritans from that city became faithful to him on account of the statement of the woman who testified, “He told me everything that I have done!”

Joh 6:29 ἀπεκρίθη ὁ ᾿Ιησοῦς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτοῖς· τοῦτό ἐστι τὸ ἔργον τοῦ Θεοῦ, ἵνα πιστεύσητε εἰς ὃν ἀπέστειλεν ἐκεῖνος.
Joh 6:29 Yahshua answered and told them, “This is the 'work of God': that you should be submissive and faithful to the person that he sent!

Joh 6:35 εἶπε δὲ αὐτοῖς ὁ ᾿Ιησοῦς· ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ἄρτος τῆς ζωῆς· ὁ ἐρχόμενος πρός ἐμὲ οὐ μὴ πεινάσῃ, καὶ ὁ πιστεύων εἰς ἐμὲ οὐ διψήσει πώποτε.
Joh 6:35 Yahshua told them, “I am Life's Bread. The person constantly approaching me will never be hungry, and the person being consistantly submissive and faithful to me will not ever be thirsty.”

Joh 6:40 τοῦτο δὲ ἐστι τὸ θέλημα τοῦ πέμψαντός με, ἵνα πᾶς ὁ θεωρῶν τὸν υἱὸν καὶ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον, καὶ ἀναστήσω αὐτὸν ἐγὼ τῇ ἐσχάτῃ ἡμέρᾳ.
Joh 6:40 “This is the intention of the one who sent me: in order that everyone who is constantly looking to the son, and being always submissive and faithful to him, may have age-abiding Life. And I will resurrect him in the Last Day.”

(Part II next)
Believing works do anything for salvation is being built on sand.

Doing what Jesus said is being on the rock. Jesus IS the rock. Do you do his teaching of believing apart from works (to get or stay saved)? Then you are built on the sandy foundation of trusting in your filtht rags.



Many will say "Lord, Lord, look at all *I* have done in your name" And he'll say I never knew you.
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
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Since you are so informed about doctrine tell us what the Doctrine of Christ says!!
see post 2756.

From 212 to 500 several creeds (a synonym of doctrine) were created to define what a Christian must believe by the early elders. Keep in mind that almost all churches have a statement of doctrine explaining their set of beliefs. They also define anything contrary is heresy and any issue outside of it is to agree to disagree! They were created because of the many diverse issues concerning Christianity. There were many Biblical issues and heretical issues being discussed and still discussed today. Heresies never seem to fade away. Creeds expose them. This started in the early church and is seen today in all of the different gospel preaching denominations.
Don't care.

If you try to say they are wrong provide the scriptures backing it up. A blanket dismissal because they were written by men is foolish. Men guided by God wrote the Bible. Men reading and understanding the scripture write Biblical doctrinal statements to aid understanding of the scripture. This was essential before the printing press! Men today create many different books, pamphlets, and Sunday School study guides as aids in understanding scripture.
Don't care.

Get your mind off of 21st century methods of creating Bibles and look at the early elders creating short statements about what the Bible stated so using them they could spread the gospel message. Refute them Biblically or stop ranting about what the early elders created.
You do error in thinking it was me that cares about what the early elders said, wrote, did, or what have you. i don't care.

Every time you say God told you I reject what you say. There is a deceiving entity that does this.
i don't care what men say and teach, i only care what God told me. What is it to me if YOU reject what God has told me? Sure there are decieving entities aplenty. That is why Scriptures plainly teaches to try them. The problem is people do not "try" them Scripturally. i say i have had conversations with God, you "try" me, and found me guilty only because what i teach is contrary to what YOU believe is the TRUTH, you have tried what i have said based on YOUR OWN thinking. To truly "try" the spirits you look to the source that is TRUE, and without error, which is the Word of God. if then you can find something that i have said, either on CC, on another message board, on my website, on podcasts, on Youtube, or wherever i have said something, if you find something that i have said that is contrary to Scriptures, then by all means deem me to be a deceiver, a false teacher. But if what i say and teach merely contradicts what YOU believe is TRUTH, what is that to me? i will continue to teach those things that God told me to teach, whether Endoscopy agrees or not. Want to prove me false, then find Scriptures that contradict what i teach, then and only then will you have effectively proven me to be false, or misguided by a deceiving entity. Oh how easy is it to accuse someone without having any evidence to support such accusations. By the way satan does that a lot to. Accused the brethren daily.

Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

i don't care what the elders said, what the 1611 bible said what it didn't say, i don't care about any of that stuff, i only care about what God told me, and getting that information out to this generation, which He already told, would not receive it. i even asked Him "Why even tell them, if you already know they will not believe it" To which He told me they would have no cloak for their sins, and also another time told me, they will not be able to plead ignorance, that they did not know. i have not failed to tell all of you the Truth which God has told me in conversation, what is it to me if you do not believe what God told me? What is important to me, is that i do what He tells me to do, which i do.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
3,095
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How about this scripture. Explain how they will be snatched from the hand of God!!

John 10 NIV. No one can snatch them out of My hand
22 Then came the Festival of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”
25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

Do you not hear the verse and what it says?

"no one will snatch them out of my hand. "

This is absolutely True, and if you would have heard my words, you would have heard me say in previous posts, that nobody can cause you to lose your Salvation, which is exactly what that statement says.

no one will snatch them out of my hands.
Nobody will snatch them out of my hands.

This however does not say at all, that the very person can choose to leave, choose to fall away, choose to deny Christ. NOBODY can make you become UNSAVED. NOBODY can cause you to lose your Salvation. NOBODY can snatch you out of the hands of God. That has nothing to do with the person leaving by their own free choice, but altogether talking about NOBODY ELSE can cause you to lose your Salvation, which is TRUE.
This is a TRUE Statement:

No one can snatch you out of God's hand. = Scriptural.
You can choose to fall away from God, if you choose to = Scriptural

No other person can cause you to lose your own Salvation.
But you can choose to lose your own Salvation by falling away from God.

No other person can cause you to lose the free Gift from God.
But you can choose to get rid of that gift when ________fill in the blank__________ is more important than God (namely sins that you refuse to cease from) Just because you received the free Gift of Salvation from God, does not mean you have to choose to accept it, or choose to keep it.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
3,095
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Oh if this generation would understand this Truth.

There is ONLY ONE DAY that will determine who is and who is not Saved. And that is the Day of the Lord. The Day He Returns to the Earth and the Sheep Christians are taken up to with Him, which we call the Rapture. ONLY THAT DAY will determine who is and who is NOT Saved. This is why it is written, He that endures to the end shall be Saved.

Getting Saved, is a free gift and you can come as you are, nothing is Required to a person to GET Saved. But ONCE you are Saved, then there are things that are REQUIRED for you to do. Namely "Love One Another" As our Lord and Savior Commanded us to do. Did you get that? DO. We are commanded to Love One Another, not asked to do it, not try to do it if you can, we are commanded to do it, even as Jesus did it for us.

i am Saved today, i am walking in the light as Jesus did, i wake up thinking about Jesus, Jesus is on my thought every second of each day, i go to sleep with loving and praising Jesus on my lips. Right now if i were to die, i am most certainly and most assuredly going to Heaven, going to be Raptured up with Christ. But i know not what tomorrow holds. Just because Today my name is written in the Book of Life, does not mean tomorrow it won't be blotted out. You do greatly error if you claiming to be Saved today, think that you can't possibly lose it tomorrow, as if you are guaranteed to win the race. Getting Saved, accepting Jesus is ONLY saying you have joined the Race. The finish line is the Great and Horrible Day of the Lord. When you accept Jesus Christ as your Savior and Lord, and repent of your sins, at that very moment you are forgiven of your sins, are you not? It is at that moment your name is written in the Book of Life as GETTING Saved. But just because you agreed to receive the free Gift of Salvation, to have your name written in the Book of Life, does not mean it is impossible for you to be blotted out of the Book of Life.

Judgement Day is the ONLY day that reveals who is Saved and who is not Saved, that day is NOT today, nor is that day the day you die. ONLY on that Day when Jesus Returns to the Earth in the Holy City, is the Day that determines who is and who is not Saved. So you can claim with your mouth all you want to claim that you are Saved, but ONLY on the Day of the Lord, will anyone, myself included know who is and who is not SAVED.

OSAS is contrary to Scriptures. Just because a person GETS SAVED, does not mean they will choose to remain SAVED, choose to keep that free gift, choose to discard that gift. OSAS is a lie and it is NOT Scriptural. OSAS teaches you have already won the race. If OSAS were actually true, then satan would not be tempting you to continue to live in sins would he? Think about it, if you are Heaven bound, what purpose would satan have to try to get you to live in sin, if there is no possible way for you to NOT GO TO HEAVEN?

satan himself tried to tempt Jesus many times, because he actually thought he could get Him to sin. Those who believe OSAS are in great danger, because that belief allows for sin in a person life, and they are still SAVED, even though they continue to obey satan when they are tempted to commit sins. OSAS teaches that no matter what you do, if your SAVED, is NOT going to change that. This i call easy Christianity, or cheap Grace.

Tell me what makes a person believe one verse over another verse?

People believe 150% the verse that says, if you believe in Jesus you have Eternal Life.

But the verse that says , Eternal life is given to them that obey Him. This generation chooses to believe the easy verse, and not believe or do the harder verse, which plainly and clearly teaches that Eternal Salvation is given to them that OBEY JESUS. Do you see how they ignore the one verse and hold dearly to the other verse.

Which answer is MORE TRUE:

A) Believe in Jesus you have Eternal Salvation.(Mar 16:16, John 3:15,Acts 16:31, 1John 5:13
B) Confess your sins you have Eternal Salvation. (Rom 10:9-10)
C) Obey Jesus you have Eternal Salvation. (Heb 5:9)
D) A Godly sorrow (repent and cease) for sins worketh to Salvation (II Cor 7:10)
E) He that endures to the end shall be SAVED. (Matt 10:22, 24:13, Heb 3:6, 1Pet 1:13)
F) Baptized(Holy Ghost) to be Saved (Mar 1:8, Mar 16:16, Acts 1:5, 11:16, 1Cor 12:13, Eph 4:5)
G) Whoever calls upon the name of the Lord, shall be Saved (Acts 2:21, Rom 10:13 )
H) Get Saved by Grace through Faith (Eph 2:8)
I) Those who Eat His Flesh and drink His blood are Saved (John 6:54)
J) To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life (Rom 2:7)
K) Christians are to HOPE for eternal Life, that is they don't have it yet (Tit 1:2, 3:7, Jud 1:21, 1Th 5:8, Heb 3:6)
L) If you hate someone, Eternal Life does not abide in you (1John 3:15)
M) You are Saved by Grace at the end when Jesus returns to the Earth (1Pet 1:13)
N) All of the above.

N) is the ONLY answer that is MORE TRUE.

A) is True, so is B), so is C) and so forth. But this generation likes to believe A) to be MORE TRUE than all the other answers, they are deceived and know not the TRUTH. All those things above are what Scriptures teach to BE SAVED. Those who hold on to one answer and disregards all the rest are deceived and believe a false doctrine.

2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

ALL VERSES are inspired by God, not just pick and choose which verse you will believe and which ones you will not believe.
Far to many goat Christians believe in Just A) above, and disregard all the others, do not listen to them nor hearken to their words. Believing ONLY is NOT enough.
Woe to this generation of goat Christians, professing with their mouths they are Saved, they believe in Jesus, but their deeds are wicked, professing that Jesus is their Lord, but they knowingly and willingly obey His enemy the devil when they are tempted to commit sin. Sin they know full well is AGAINST the Lord Jesus but do them anyways, vainly repenting of those sins, knowing full well they will continue to do those sins and do not cease from them.

People wake up. Those who obey Jesus belong to Jesus, they are the sheep. Those who obey satan belong to satan, they are either the wolf (unbelievers) or the goats (believers). The goat Christians believe in Answer A) ONLY, and think that is all they need to believe in to BE SAVED. Their will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth.

continued:
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
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But here is Good News for you. Now you know the TRUTH, God has told me to tell you the TRUTH. If you believe what i teach, it is not i that you believe but He that told me these things, which is God.

Why do you call Jesus "Lord" and willingly obey His enemy? And still think your soul is Right with God? Your Master is to whom you obey. But for some reason this generation claim that Jesus is their Master, yet they willingly obey satan His enemy, and still think they Righteous. Claiming the Blood of Jesus covers them. But they do not even read and understand what His Word actually says:

1Jn_1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:


Do you claim to have fellowship with Jesus? Do you claim to be SAVED, and yet you knowingly and willingly walk in darkness, that is to say you knowingly and willingly do those things which you know full well are sinful, against God, and yet choose to do them anyways, you lie, and do not know the TRUTH, even as Scriptures testifies against those who claim to have fellowship with Jesus but continue to walk in darkness.

1Jn_1:7 But if (CONDITIONAL) we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.

When does the Blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth us from all sin? When and IF we are walking in the light. Tell me, if a person knowingly and willingly chooses to obey satan when they are tempted to commit a sin, and freely chooses to commit that sin, is that person walking in the light? yes or no? ONLY those who are walking in the light, are washed by His Blood. Woe to this generation indeed, fitted for destruction, when the Wrath of God comes upon this disobedient World.

Please, i don't mean to come off as being harsh, or unloving, on the contrary, i love all of you a great deal, which is why it is so frustrating for me trying to reach even one of you. God has told me many things, what i teach is from Him, and can save your soul from being forever separated from God. What i teach is not easy, but real hard, you must be willing to give you life up for Jesus Christ even as He has given His for you. Start living by the Bible, namely Love One Another, and stop obeying satan when he comes tempting you. Seek the Power, and Strength of Jesus Christ to overcome all temptations that satan throws at you, and He will help. Look for that path out of every temptation that comes upon you, For Jesus is faithful and there is one available, you must want to look for it in order to find it. Repent of your sins, and cease to do them again. Is satan divided against Himself? i teach against sin, i teach Love One Another above all else. Do you think the conversations i have had with God would teach to stop sinning or to continue sinning. The conversations with God told me over and over again to Love One Another. So i teach what He told me to teach, stop sinning, start loving, do these sound like words of satan? i know to whom i have spoken with many times in the past, it is God, you all would do well to hearken to what God has told me. But how easy it is for this generation to believe the many false doctrines which allows for sinning, how hard would it be to give up sinning?

Rom_8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Php_1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;


Do you suffer for His sake?

Jesus Christ Suffered.
The Apostles Suffered.
Those who give up sinning, i assure you suffer as well.

Mat_10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Mat_16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.


You that claim to be SAVED, are you willing to give up your LIFE for Jesus Christ? Really, your life? You say you are willing to give up your life for Him, but then you are not willing to give up that sin that so easily besets you.

Heb_12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Those who Truly live the Will of God, have indeed given up their lives. They have lost their friends, family, jobs, lands, children, etc.. . ..
Those who live the Will of God suffer in this life, but will be given Eternal Life in Heaven. And this is the Will of God, that we believe on Jesus Christ and that we Love One Another.
Love those that hate you.
Love those that lie about you.
Love those that cut you off in traffic.
Love those who falsely accuse you.
Love those who stand on the corner asking for help.
Love those who are in need.
Love those that are sick.
Love your spouse.
Love you kids.
Love all people.
God is Love, those who serve and worship God will serve Love. If you fail to love anyone at all, you fail to Love Him, who you claim is your Lord.

Jesus Christ, your Lord and Savior, Commands you to Love One Another. Woe to those who claim Jesus in their Lord, and do not Love One Another, they are no different than the goats in the Parable that Jesus gave to us concerning Him separating the sheep from the goats, which BOTH call Him "Lord" Something satan has blinded the minds of humans in this generation. No "wolf", No unbeliever will ever call Jesus "Lord"

1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall He answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

These Goats call Jesus Lord, which 1Cor 12:3 says they could not do without the Holy Ghost. So Jesus is plainly and clearly teaching in this parable that the Righteous Love One Another, the Unrighteous fail to Love One Another. Those who believe in Jesus and Love One Another are Sheep. Those who believe in Jesus and fail to Love One Another are goats. Remember that goats and sheep were always acceptable sacrifices in the Old Testament. Wolves were NOT. These goats and sheep are all believers, but satan will try to tell you that the goats are unbelievers in this Parable, even though they call Jesus "Lord". Unbelievers need not be Judged, they are unbelievers and will not stand in the Judgment (Psalms 1:5)

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
 

Endoscopy

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Oct 13, 2017
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There are no Scriptures that teach God takes back His Gift. But there are many Scriptures which teach that humans can reject His Gift, even after God freely gave it to them. What? Do you think if a person recieves a free gift they can't choose to discard that gift? Just because God gives a person a free gift does not mean a person can't reject it. We even have Parables that teach a person can receive that free gift then LATER rejects it for this reason or that reason.

God will never take back a gift that he gives. That does not mean a person can't reject that gift from God, either before they receive it, or even after they have received it, then Later discard it.

All those who believe OSAS please answer. Or continue to NOT answer because it would reveal the error of your thinking.

IN 1980 Dave accepts Jesus Christ as his Savior and Lord, he repents of his sins, and all his past sins are forgiven unto him. He is washed, a new man in Christ. He starts attending church every Sunday.
IN 1985 Dave became the Youth minister in his Church
IN 1990 Dave marries a Christian woman with two little girls
IN 1999 Dave Molests the two girls on a regular basis, Oh and he repents after each time.
Dave continues to molest the two girls, then He starts molesting the children in his youth program, after which he repents each time of those too.
IN 2018 Dave dies in a car accident. Never having ceased from molesting children.

Tell me, when Dave stands before God on Judgment Day, is he SAVED? Did he not repent after each time he molested a child?

If you answer "NO, Dave was never Truly Saved" Then answer me this Question which you will not answer I'm sure. If Dave were to have died in 1998, which for 18 years was a model Christian, living in the Will of God, and Loving Everyone, helping everyone, a perfect Christian. On Judgement Day would Dave be Judged as SAVED, if he died in 1998?

Do all you others see why they will not answer that question? If Dave would have died in 1989 BEFORE he started living a very wicked life, he would have been Judged as SAVED, a good soldier of Jesus Christ. Those who believe the false doctrine will claim "Dave was never Truly Saved" Which is just something they say to justify their own false belief in the false doctrine that they hold dearly too, and no matter what example you give, instead of them changing their belief, they will just say "Dave was never Truly Saved to begin with" Do not listen to them who are not persuaded by simple logic. If Dave would have died in 1989, He would most certainly be judged as SAVED, But when he turned away from doing the will of God, even though he continually repented of his wicked deeds, and never ceased from them, he will be judged as NOT SAVED on Judgment Day, because Dave freely chose who his master is. Is it not plainly and clearly written, your master is to whom you obey. Up until 1999 Daves master was God, but after 1999 when he started molesting children, his master became satan. God telling him to stop, satan telling him to continue just repent each time and your fine and telling him "Once your Saved, you are always saved, and you can't lose your salvation, just continue to repent". Up to 1999 he was a sheep Christian, After 1999 he was a goat Christian. Up to 1999 His name was written in the Book of Life. After 1999 his name was blotted out of the Book of Life.

OSAS is a lie from the pits of Hell. it is a doctrine satan came up with to make goat christians comfortable even though they continue to live in sin. Believing in Once Saved Always Saved is perfect for the backslider, they can continue to live in a backsliden condition and still be SAVED, still Heaven bound. How easy is that?

Broad and wide and easy is the path that leads to destruction, but narrow and difficult is the path that leads to everlasting life. Many and i say MANY are on that wide and easy path, all the while thinking they are on the narrow path. There will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth from the goat Christians, those who profess Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, but continue to live in sin thinking nothing of it, just as long as you continue to repent of the same sin over and over and over and over and over and over again, you'll be fine, is their thinking. To Truly repent of a particular sin, you MUST 1) Repent of it, AND 2) Cease to do it again.

Dave in the above situation, repented each time he molested a child. Tell me, How sorry was he if he never ceased from doing it again? i will tell you the Truth any sin a person commits and repents of, knowing full well they will continue to do that sin, even though they repent of it, is NOT forgiven of it, until they Truly repent of it, and that is to repent and cease from doing it ever again.

i smoked cigarettes for many years, but not once did i ask God to forgive me during those many years, while i knew i was going to continue to smoke them. But once i quit smoking them for good, is when i bowed myself down to God and asked Him to forgive me, and i told Him, "i will never do it again"

If Dave in the Above situation would have TRULY Repented, he would have repented, asked the girls to forgive him, ask his wife to forgive him, turned himself in to authorities, pays for the crime that he has committed, and most importantly NEVER does it again, then Dave would be forgiven by God for his wicked deeds against his wife, children, and God.

Do you repent for the same sin over and over again? How sorry are you, if you continue to do the very thing you are repenting of?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
The way we are saved is by grace through faith in Jesus. Many people want to believe works saves them. You seem to be adding more to it. Why?
 

preston39

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Dec 18, 2017
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I agree with the bible.

I just disagree with you.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

This is pretty non-sensical if we aren't saved until after we die. You don't have to tell a dead person that they aren't saved by works.

Wouldn't it make more sense to say 'by grace are you saved through faith; and that not until you die and are judged".

But it doesn't say that. I don't think you will find the bible saying that anywhere. Because it isn't faith.


Faith doesn't say all the blessings of God are available to you once you die and are judged. Faith says that all the blessings of God are available NOW.

Matthew 21:9 And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.

Save us when? Save us NOW. (That's what Hosanna means)
You are being ..."non-sensical".... if you think all we must do is have faith. While faith is a must...that's not all my friend.
We must do several things to meet G-d's requirements for eternal salvation. Surely you are aware. If not search scripture.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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D...,

Haven't seen anyone say.."G-d takes back His offer". Why do you spin it in that context? Do it correctly...G-d doesn't but you or I could loose our born again status and eternal salvation by not following G-d's commandments.
That is biblical.
 
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The question then is what is the Doctrine of Christ?

The Doctrine of Christ is summed up in this:

Love One Another.

Those who Love One Another, are abiding in the Doctrine of Christ.
Those who fail to Love One Another are NOT abiding in the Doctrine of Christ.

Amen.


Those who steal from their brother are not loving their brother.


Those who commit adultery with their brother’s wife are not loving their brother.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


If a brother murders his brother then he is not loving his brother.


If a brother lies to his brother then he is not loving his brother.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


If a brother covets his brother’s wife or things his brother has, he is not walking in love toward his brother.


If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also. 1 John 4:20-21



This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it. 2 John 6




JPT
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Wrong. Your understanding of the Greek word I transliterated as "sabbatismos" is absurd. It actually means "seventh day cessation". The Greek word occurs in Heb 4:9. I'm very sorry that you are so ready to make assumptions and condemn others at the drop of a hat. 😢
Hebrews 4:9 - So there remains a Sabbath-rest (sabbatismos) for the people of God. *Notice that the Greek word "sabbatismos" is used no where else in the Bible. Amazing that Sabbatarians would suggest that this is the word for "keeping the weekly Sabbath" when it is never used anywhere else, in spite of the many references to Jews keeping the weekly Sabbath in the New Testament! Here the Sabbath rest is the perpetual rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with Jesus Christ, in contrast to keeping the weekly seventh day Sabbath under the Law.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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NO
It is not applicable to the concept of OSAS which the quote of Jesus supports!! I only use the Bible not quotes from New Age or anything like it. I listen to ministers of the word but as recommended by a minister that it needs to be verified by the Bible. I am 73 and been a deacon and elder in 3 Reformed theology churches, moved twice. I took several classes in theology as required by becoming an officer in the church. Being in the Reformed theology faith I also have investigated its opposite viewpoint Arminianism. Both views are Biblical. I'm not a novice in theology so refute explicitly what I missed from that quote of Jesus.

The preparation concept you list is great. Now listen to scripture....not a person. G-d will not accept our placing blame for lour miss understnding of The Bible....we are responsible.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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When you disagree with someone in person or online you need to approach the person for their reasons for their statements not make wild accusations. I am counseling you in this as an elder of a Reformed theology church.
Counseling?......a lofty self admiration not supported by your stated biblical understanding. I will pass...thanks.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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Wrong. Your understanding of the Greek word I transliterated as "sabbatismos" is absurd. It actually means "seventh day cessation". The Greek word occurs in Heb 4:9. I'm very sorry that you are so ready to make assumptions and condemn others at the drop of a hat
The word "sabbatismos meaning rest is not a time sensitive word in any way shape or form..

We are given the understanding that Christ as the lamb of God was slain from the foundation of the world (seven days) .He rested on the seventh from doing all his work .Seven or the word week does not mean rest. Again the word Sabbath it is not subject to time restraints.

There are two kinds of Sabbaths spoken of in the scriptures .(#1) as a ceremonial law or a shadow that points to the true eternal rest (#2).

Some simply refuse to separate the ceremonial laws as shadows from the true substance.

Continuing to lean what is means to "mix faith" in what we do hear or see coming from the word of God is the key to entering His eternal rest. And not the ceremonial one as if we rested in shadows of the true.

Ultimately every time we hear his voice and do not harden our hearts we have entered His eternal Sabbath. For it is God who works in in s to both will and do His good pleasure .And as we are informed in Job 23 .It is He who does make our hearts soft .he perform that which he appoints to us (imputed righteousness)

The ceremonial law (sabbath) has a different application seeing it anticipates the true rest ….Which is the gospel heard by "mixing faith" in what we do hear coming from God.... a day set aside that we can bring the gospel into the world and not business as usual, six days needed to work to maintain theses bodies of death .

Hebrews 4 King James Version (KJV) Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being "mixed with faith" in them that heard it.For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:(no faith) Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.( no faith)
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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i don't care what the elders said, what the 1611 bible said what it didn't say, i don't care about any of that stuff, i only care about what God told me
What a spirit filled man of God we have here.

Its just like the early Apostles.
You guys remember that verse where Peter was witnessing to the jews and he said "yeah that 4000BC torah, i really dont care what it said or didnt say, i only care about what God told me".
Oh yeah its not in there, my bad. OOPS

Turns out the real apostles of God care about the scriptures.

I take the KJV bible over your false doctrine and boasting any time any day, and twice on sunday.

And I thought I had pride issues? Good grief man. Oh how special thou art, Dave, we should listen to your every word. Im sure you are just a humble servant of the Lord, am i right? God just picked you to tell us this (false doctrine) because He already knew in His infinite wisdom we would not listen (to your false doctrines) and thereby we have no excuse for our sins anymore.

Im sick and tired of fake apostles and teachers and preachers like you. Its disgusting.
Its the end times for sure brothers, stay awake.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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and since i know that He is both able and faithful i can trust that He will never lose me?

IOW i am eternally saved?

groovy
Being saved is a wonderful thing, beyond what our human minds can comprehend. But there is something even greater, It is being great in the kingdom of heaven.

You can't be a Sunday Christian, not making God part of your everyday living and be great in the Kingdom. Paul went to great lengths to explain that to us.

All these people on the soap box telling how great it is to ignore everything God tells us about living well and still be saved are not listening to all God has to tell them. Like Paul Harvey, the newscaster used to say "and now the rest of the story". The once saved always saved people need to tell the rest of the story.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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You are correct.
If one politely attempts to get them to reconsider their position based on scriptures, they immediately attack you. Real Christian,,,,huh?
That literally confirms my first suspicion that they have a different motivation than Christian....most likely ego.
We must not allow them to miss lead a newbie/less biblically informed.



Our effortmust be to try and not allow them to miss leaad the newbie or less biblically informed.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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Being saved is a wonderful thing, beyond what our human minds can comprehend. But there is something even greater, It is being great in the kingdom of heaven.

You can't be a Sunday Christian, not making God part of your everyday living and be great in the Kingdom. Paul went to great lengths to explain that to us.

All these people on the soap box telling how great it is to ignore everything God tells us about living well and still be saved are not listening to all God has to tell them. Like Paul Harvey, the newscaster used to say "and now the rest of the story". The once saved always saved people need to tell the rest of the story.
I'm a OSAS (really preservation of the saints person) and believe in "the rest of the story." That is, there are passages that describe believers, but are not prescriptive on how to attain eternal life. People conflate the two. Thus, there is evidence of conversion, and evidence of being deceived noted in Scripture.

For the record no one is telling you to ignore (nor others) everything God says -- you're coming to false conclusions and making that up.

Any person who denies evidence of conversion; 1 John, the sanctifying work of the believer; Hebrews 12:4; and the transformation of all believers; 2 Corinthians 3:18ff is deceived and does not understand the Gospel.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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I'm a OSAS (really preservation of the saints person) and believe in "the rest of the story." That is, there are passages that describe believers, but are not prescriptive on how to attain eternal life. People conflate the two. Thus, there is evidence of conversion, and evidence of being deceived noted in Scripture.

For the record no one is telling you to ignore (nor others) everything God says -- you're coming to false conclusions and making that up.

Any person who denies evidence of conversion; 1 John, the sanctifying work of the believer; Hebrews 12:4; and the transformation of all believers; 2 Corinthians 3:18ff is deceived and does not understand the Gospel.
Our God is a God of balance. We humans often see our world as one dimension. Like the new covenant God made, humans often get off balance with that, too. They sometimes feel that a fact they learn cancels out all other facts, and with God that isn't so.

It is the truth that God is so above us in holiness we can't even consider becoming God like so our works make for our salvation. God looks at our faith for our salvation. That is the truth. It is also the truth that if we are so lacking in faith in what God tells us about how to live our life here that we become just disobedient to Him, then that faith we have isn't really faith and we can't be saved by that kind of faith. That is really work demanded of us to be saved, yet it is true at the very same moment that we are only saved by faith. Balance.

Perhaps the bottom line is the Holy Spirit within us that we receive in ways that are not of this world but are of God.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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Our God is a God of balance. We humans often see our world as one dimension. Like the new covenant God made, humans often get off balance with that, too. They sometimes feel that a fact they learn cancels out all other facts, and with God that isn't so.

It is the truth that God is so above us in holiness we can't even consider becoming God like so our works make for our salvation. God looks at our faith for our salvation. That is the truth. It is also the truth that if we are so lacking in faith in what God tells us about how to live our life here that we become just disobedient to Him, then that faith we have isn't really faith and we can't be saved by that kind of faith. That is really work demanded of us to be saved, yet it is true at the very same moment that we are only saved by faith. Balance.

Perhaps the bottom line is the Holy Spirit within us that we receive in ways that are not of this world but are of God.
But, He expects us to work on being perfect like Him...daily.