OSAS= House Built on Sand

[justpassinthrough]

So Jesus only bore the burden of only some of our sins, and the debt is partially paid depending upon how we perform?

The debt for all sin is paid.


However, we must confess our sins, if we want to be forgiven and cleansed of all unrighteousness.


If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9



JPT

 

[dcontroversal]

Has nothing to do with total inability.

The natural man is not able to secure his own salvation by his own works, he/she can try but 100% perfection is required.
The believer can and does please God by his thoughts and actions.

See what they also fail to understand is that man does nothing for God.....it is CHRIST IN US AND THROUGH US that does the work.....HE BEING THE ROOT IS WHAT CREATES, SUSTAINS AND BEARS THE FRUIT THROUGH US THE BRANCHES......exactly why works do not save, keep saved or top off salvation!

 

[dcontroversal]

So Jesus only bore the burden of only some of our sins, and the debt is partially paid depending upon how we perform?

Catholic dogma permeates many of the daughter religions that are tied in some form or fashion to that false religion of Rome!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Actually, I have and now sipping more. It's cold and leftover from yesterday but I don't really care. Gonna get a K-cup machine soon. Mr. Coffee and I will be parting our ways soon.

Busy morning so far. Been to the store, fed the cats, change their litter pans, brought down the dirty laundry to the laundry area. My honey will be down shortly and we will have breakfast. Then I will start the dishwasher and we will have our daily devotions. This afternoon I will be going to my quit smoking clinic. We meet once a week on Monday's from 5 - 6 PM. This will be my 3rd session with 3 more remaining after this afternoon. Still no progress on actually quitting though and that is wearing on my mind.

I am an addict and nicotine is my drug of choice. That is really sad if you ask me.

Why not try vaping? Not as unhealthy.

 

[justpassinthrough]

Amen to these truths.......my boble is clear...the irrevocable gift is exactly that....irrevocable.....!!

Please show us the scripture that says eternal life is irrevocable.


32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me.33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.

35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”
Matthew 18:32-35


The forgiveness of our sins will be revoked and we will have to pay the penalty for them in hell being tortured for eternity, if we do not forgive those who sin against us.



The sheep who is with the Shepherd and reconciled to Him is just: declared righteous.


The sheep who wanders away from the Shepherd, and becomes lost, is no longer "just", but is a sinner in need of repentance, just as he was before he belonged to the shepherd.


The point that is being made by Jesus, is a person who wanders away and becomes lost, must repent, because they are now a sinner, who must repent to be saved and reconciled to God.


Either they need to return to God, like the prodigal son, or be brought back to repentance by someone going after them.


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

• will save a soul from death

A Christian who becomes lost is in danger of eternal death unless he repents.

A Christian who is in a "lost" state, is not reconciled to God, and is no longer justified: They are lost.



JPT

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Amen to these truths.......my boble is clear...the irrevocable gift is exactly that....irrevocable.....!! To say it is revocable is to flat call God a liar....no wonder the number is plenteous that gets cast......most in Christiandom teach a self help guru I keep myself saved and or a losable salvation that equates to a self salvation maintained by man and not Christ....they trust themselves over Jesus.....thry have two main characteristics...

a. They CLAIM to know Christ
b. They believe their right to enter is based upon what they have done.

I.E.

faith plus works to gain, maintain, embellish or top off salvation = no gospel found in the bible anf NO POWER TO SAVE A MAN!

The irrevocable gift (the promises) was to Israel, not to each individual in Israel. This is proven by the fact that the promises remained for the believing remnant, but were denied to the unbelieving part that was cut off.

The same applies to the church.

 

[justpassinthrough]

See what they also fail to understand is that man does nothing for God.....it is CHRIST IN US AND THROUGH US that does the work.....HE BEING THE ROOT IS WHAT CREATES, SUSTAINS AND BEARS THE FRUIT THROUGH US THE BRANCHES......exactly why works do not save, keep saved or top off salvation!

Christ empowers us to live righteously.

We must choose to live according to the Spirit or according to the flesh.


16 Don’t you realize that grace frees you to choose your own master? But choose carefully, for you surrender yourself to become a servant—bound to the one you choose to obey. If you choose to love sin, it will become your master, and it will own you and reward you with death. But if you choose to love and obey God, he will lead you into perfect righteousness. Romans 6:16




JPT

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Has nothing to do with total inability.

The natural man is not able to secure his own salvation by his own works, he/she can try but 100% perfection is required.
The believer can and does please God by his thoughts and actions.

You keep brining up this fallacy - 100% perfection is required. You seriously don't understand grace if that is your understanding of the faith.

 

[dcontroversal]

Faith can be used as noun or verb depending on context.

I have to cut the grass but I will return.

btw....the visible church is not the bride, is not ekklesia and your problems with scripture have nothing to do with Calvin so you need to get over that.

Funny how he KNOWS Calvin us burning....I reported it....No man can say that with 100% assurity....especially one who espouses a self saving false gospel......

 

[dcontroversal]

The irrevocable gift (the promises) was to Israel, not to each individual in Israel. This is proven by the fact that the promises remained for the believing remnant, but were denied to the unbelieving part that was cut off.

The same applies to the church.

No offense, but your view falls short of accurate.....As a matter of fact, most of what you say misses the mark....Salvation is a free gift that is not earned or maintained by man...we are saved to the uttermost, kept by God's power through the faith he deals in measure, the same faith started, finished and completed by Christ....the gift is irrevocable and the bible does not teach your Catholic losable false salvation.....and the Hebrews that were made to wander were being chastized by their lack of faith when they came to the promise land....God still provided for them, led them by day and night, fed them, watered them, gave them a form of worship, sustained them and did NOT CAST THEM OFF concerning their act of faith to leave Egypt....wake up

 

[mailmandan]

The debt for all sin is paid.

However, we must confess our sins, if we want to be forgiven and cleansed of all unrighteousness.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9

JPT

Be sure you read 1 John 1:9 IN CONTRAST with 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 1:10.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

No offense, but your view falls short of accurate.....As a matter of fact, most of what you say misses the mark....Salvation is a free gift that is not earned or maintained by man...we are saved to the uttermost, kept by God's power through the faith he deals in measure, the same faith started, finished and completed by Christ....the gift is irrevocable and the bible does not teach your Catholic losable false salvation.....and the Hebrews that were made to wander were being chastized by their lack of faith when they came to the promise land....God still provided for them, led them by day and night, fed them, watered them, gave them a form of worship, sustained them and did NOT CAST THEM OFF concerning their act of faith to leave Egypt....wake up

GOD destroyed in the wilderness the ones who didn't believe; they lived lives of misery for 40 years and did not inherit the promise. The unbelieving Jews in Paul's day were broken off and didn't inherit the promises. Did Paul tell believers that they were immune from the same fate if they fell into unbelief? Far from it.

You will say then, The branches were broken off that I might be grafted in. Well! For unbelief they were broken off. And you stand by faith. Do not be highminded, but fear. For if GOD did not spare the natural branches, lest somehow he will not spare you. Romans 11:19-21​

And quit bearing false witness by implying that I am, or ever have been, Catholic.

 

[Ralph-]

Dead faith is not living faith and I'm not a 5 point Calvinist...

Your 'once saved always saved' view is Calvinist.

Why would I respond positively to the same old arguments by JPT which have already been refuted...

The question is, why are you reacting negatively to their post which only has points you yourself agree with. It did not include any of the points that you disagree with.

 

[dcontroversal]

You keep brining up this fallacy - 100% perfection is required. You seriously don't understand grace if that is your understanding of the faith.

And you don't understand what was said.....the only thing that saves a man is having the righteousness of Christ applied eternally by faith...being born of INCORRUPTABLE SEED ETERNALLY FROM ABOVE....

let me guess you don't believe in being born of INCORRUPT

GOD destroyed in the wilderness the ones who didn't believe; they lived lives of misery for 40 years and did not inherit the promise. The unbelieving Jews in Paul's day were broken off and didn't inherit the promises. Did Paul tell believers that they were immune from the same fate if they fell into unbelief? Far from it.

You will say then, The branches were broken off that I might be grafted in. Well! For unbelief they were broken off. And you stand by faith. Do not be highminded, but fear. For if GOD did not spare the natural branches, lest somehow he will not spare you. Romans 11:19-21​

And quit bearing false witness by implying that I am, or ever have been, Catholic.

Did not say you were Catholic, just what you preach has it's roots in Cathilicism....I.E. a losable salvation....and....they were still HIS PEOPLE AND THERE IS A POSITION OF REST AFFORDED IN THIS LIFE FOR FAITHFULNESS<---they missed this and were chastised.....which IS NOT LOSING SALVATION.....

 

[Ralph-]

Your "obedience" as necessary for ultimate salvation is making salvation by your own doing, this cannot be denied.

Faith is what justifies a person all by itself apart from works of the law. What you reject is the fact that the faith that justifies all by itself apart from works of the law is the faith that works.

You want your ears tickled that somehow dead faith (faith with no works) also saves a person. No, James clearly said that dead faith CAN NOT save a person. And that has NOTHING to do with works earning salvation. Until you can see this you will be deceived into thinking, in direct contradiction to James, that the faith that doesn't work also saves.


And just so you understand the argument properly: You don't lose your salvation for not having works to earn that salvation. You lose your salvation for no longer believing/trusting in Christ as your salvation from the penalty for sin because, ultimately, no works is just the sign that you either never had saving faith in Christ in the first place, or you abandoned it somewhere along the line after believing.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Did not say you were Catholic, just what you preach has it's roots in Cathilicism....I.E. a losable salvation....and....they were still HIS PEOPLE AND THERE IS A POSITION OF REST AFFORDED IN THIS LIFE FOR FAITHFULNESS<---they missed this and were chastised.....which IS NOT LOSING SALVATION.....

They weren't just chastised, they were destroyed and not allowed to inherit the promises. It was a shadow of the reality; an instructional example for us and a type pointing to the anti-type of not inheriting the promise of eternal life because of unbelief.

Now I want to remind you, although you know everything once and for all, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, the second time destroyed those who did not believe. Jude 1:5​

​

But God was not pleased with the majority of them, for they were struck down in the wilderness. Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we should not be desirers of evil things, just as those also desired them, and not become idolaters, as some of them did, just as it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and stood up to play,” nor commit sexual immorality, as some of them committed sexual immorality, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day, nor put Christ to the test, as some of them tested him, and were destroyed by snakes, nor grumble, just as some of them grumbled, and were destroyed by the destroyer. Now these things happened to those people as an example, but are written for our instruction, on whom the ends of the ages have come. Therefore, the one who thinks that he stands must watch out lest he fall. 1 Corinthians 10:5-12​

 

[Ralph-]

AND THERE IS A POSITION OF REST AFFORDED IN THIS LIFE FOR FAITHFULNESS<---they missed this and were chastised.....which IS NOT LOSING SALVATION.....

You seem to conveniently ignore the fact that Paul said the sinning fellow at Corinth had to be turned over to the destruction of his flesh SO HE COULD BE SAVED. You can't just decide you're going to ignore that essential part of the passage in order to create your own erroneous doctrine, and worse, teach it to others.

 

[tourist]

Why not try vaping? Not as unhealthy.

I am going to consider this.

 

[Ralph-]

being born of INCORRUPTABLE SEED ETERNALLY FROM ABOVE....

The incorruptible word of God, planted and growing in soil #2 in the Parable of the Sower, withered and was uprooted. So much for thinking 'incorruptible seed' somehow means you will always be saved. You have to hold fast to the word of the gospel to be saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-2).

 

[justpassinthrough]

And you don't understand what was said.....the only thing that saves a man is having the righteousness of Christ applied eternally by faith...being born of INCORRUPTABLE SEED ETERNALLY FROM ABOVE....

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
1 John 3:7



JPT