PATRIOTISM IS BIBLICAL, But Is It Dying In AMERICA?

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Jan 24, 2012
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I guess there was just too much simple truth in my post to debate it...

patriotism is evil, Anarchy is the only moral framework for society if God isn't the direct King.

Moving on...
 
Jan 24, 2012
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Ecclesiastes 3:1-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] There is an occasion for everything, and a time for every activity under heaven:
[SUP]2 [/SUP] a time to give birth and a time to die; a time to plant and a time to uproot;
[SUP]3 [/SUP] a time to kill and a time to heal; (When do you allow a time to HEAL, and a time to FORGIVE as you have been forgiven? You want GOD to forget your sins, but are UNWILLING to FORGET the sins of others from the past. WHEN do you start to live up to the standards of the GOD you claim to follow? WHEN do you Praise GOD for the Union Troops who defeated the South, and thus ended slavery? When do you drop the stones, because Jesus said, "Let him who is without sin, cast the first stone." WHEN do you start to help building something worth being Patriotic about? WHEN do you learn to respect the GOOD that has been done, even if it is by the few, instead of wallowing in bitterness and hated of the PAST? WHEN?)
a time to tear down and a time to build;
[SUP]4 [/SUP] a time to weep and a time to laugh; a time to mourn and a time to dance;
[SUP]5 [/SUP] a time to throw stones and a time to gather stones; a time to embrace and a time to avoid embracing;
[SUP]6 [/SUP] a time to search and a time to count as lost; a time to keep and a time to throw away;
[SUP]7 [/SUP] a time to tear and a time to sew; a time to be silent and a time to speak;
[SUP]8 [/SUP] a time to love and a time to hate; a time for war and a time for peace.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] What does the worker gain from his struggles?
[SUP]10 [/SUP] I have seen the task that God has given people to keep them occupied.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] He has made everything appropriate in its time. He has also put eternity in their hearts, but man cannot discover the work God has done from beginning to end.

Numbers 21:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] When the Canaanite, the king of Arad, who lived in the Negev, heard that Israel was coming by the way of Atharim, then he fought against Israel and took some of them captive.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] So Israel made a vow to the LORD and said, "If You will indeed deliver this people into my hand, then I will utterly destroy their cities."
[SUP]3 [/SUP] The LORD heard the voice of Israel and delivered up the Canaanites; then they utterly destroyed them and their cities. Thus the name of the place was called Hormah.

Deuteronomy 20:16-17 (NKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But of the cities of these peoples which the LORD your God gives you as an inheritance, you shall let nothing that breathes remain alive,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] but you shall utterly destroy them: the Hittite and the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite, just as the LORD your God has commanded you,

While you meditate on what I said, please listen to Amazing Grace in the Sioux language:

[video=youtube;OkL6ODtoPUk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkL6ODtoPUk[/video]

If that song is not enough, then listen to this Lakota Healing Song, while you meditate some more:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3-la0C19Z4

Over four hundred thousand, American Troops gave their lives, to stop the Satanic EVIL of AXIS POWERS, including Adolf Hitler and his Nazi Party. AND YOU REMAIN UNGRATEFUL:



And DO NOT forget the REALITY of Hitler's DEATH CAMPS, and you remain ungrateful that our Troops played a MAJOR part in stopping and liberating those survivors of the NAZI SS DEATH CAMPS:



Now do you suppose, GOD knowing all things and what Satan was up to, allowed this NATION TO COME INTO BEING so that he could use the USA to HELP stop the death toll at around 6,000,000 Jews and 5,000,000 POWs?

407,300 U.S. Troops lost their lives to STOP THAT EVIL.
383,700 British Troops lost their lives to STOP THAT EVIL.
210,000 French Troops lost their lives to STOP THAT EVIL.
42,000 Canadian Troops lost their lives to STOP THAT EVIL.
39,700 Australian Troops lost their lives to STOP THAT EVIL.
etc.
etc.

And you remain ungrateful.


You forgot these all American pics as well

Waco Massacre





That's Wounded Knee, just in case you didn't know. (yeehah! Murica!)

And who can forget the all American classic, Trail of Tears (that I would later become a descendant from)



And who could forget this little gem?

 
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Dec 10, 2015
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Exodus 20:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP]“You shall not murder.

Luke 18:18-20
[SUP]18 [/SUP]A ruler questioned Him, saying, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” [SUP]19 [/SUP]And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone. [SUP]20 [/SUP]You know the commandments, ‘Do not commit adultery, Do not murder, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother.’”

Romans 13:9-10
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” [SUP]10 [/SUP]Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

1 John 3:15
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

All those who MURDERED the Native Americans will never enter into Heaven. The Lake of Fire is where they will go.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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You forgot these all American pics as well

Waco Massacre



That's Wounded Knee, just in case you didn't know. (yeehah! Murica!)

And who can forget the all American classic, Trail of Tears (that I would later become a descendant from)

And who could forget this little gem?
I see you also SUPPORT leftist Media Propoganda, and criminal activity. I am really surprised you used that WACO picture. GEE, you forgot Jonestown. The Federal Marshalls went in because they had been firing an ILLEGALLY OWNED MACHINE GUN. Then dear old innocent David, poured gasoline from one end of the building to the other, and apparently lit a match, rather than surrender and face Trial like he should have.

Native Americans teach the lesson to forgive, and so does the Bible, so how did you miss the lesson?

Wounded Knee and the Trail of Tears should not have went down the way it did and were both tragedies. So explain why you find it impossible to forgive. Has anti USA, become an addiction for you? If you really are Native American why down you send back you Indian Money in protest.

The bottom picture is yet another, that all Randy Weaver had to do, was come out with his hands up, and it would have just been a simple arrest, Randy, like David personally escalated it into a criminal shootout.

Romans 13:1-4 (NKJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.
Luke 6:37-38 (ESV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] “Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;
[SUP]38 [/SUP] give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, press
ed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap.
For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you.”


AMONG, you dishonor, with your non-Patriotism are 28 Congressional Medal of Honor winners, who happen to be Native Americans.

Wikipedia: Of the 3,469 Medals of Honor awarded as of 2010, 28 have been awarded to Native Americans.

Isn't your attitude, like spitting on their Bravery and their "Above and Beyond the Call of Duty" SERVICE?

Here are some those 28 U.S. HEROES

Gregory "PAPPY" Boyington - Sioux - Black Sheep Squadron Commander

Michael Red Cloud Jr. - Winnebago

Woodrow Keeble - Sioux

 
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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Exodus 20:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP]“You shall not murder.

Luke 18:18-20
[SUP]18 [/SUP]A ruler questioned Him, saying, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” [SUP]19 [/SUP]And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone. [SUP]20 [/SUP]You know the commandments, ‘Do not commit adultery, Do not murder, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother.’”

Romans 13:9-10
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” [SUP]10 [/SUP]Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

1 John 3:15
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

All those who MURDERED the Native Americans will never enter into Heaven. The Lake of Fire is where they will go.

Makes them as guilty as YOU AND ME.

James 2:10 (NIV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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I see you also SUPPORT leftist Media Propoganda, and criminal activity. I am really surprised you used that WACO picture. GEE, you forgot Jonestown. The Federal Marshalls went in because they had been firing an ILLEGALLY OWNED MACHINE GUN. Then dear old innocent David, poured gasoline from one end of the building to the other, and apparently lit a match, rather than surrender and face Trial like he should have.

Native Americans teach the lesson to forgive, and so does the Bible, so how did you miss the lesson?

Wounded Knee and the Trail of Tears should not have went down the way it did and were both tragedies. So explain why you find it impossible to forgive. Has anti USA, become an addiction for you? If you really are Native American

The bottom picture you posted is yet another, that all Randy Weaver had to do, was come out with his hands up, and it would have just been a simple arrest, Randy, like David personally escalated it into a criminal shootout.

Romans 13:1-4 (NKJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.
Luke 6:37-38 (ESV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] “Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;
[SUP]38 [/SUP] give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, press
ed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap.
For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you.”


AMONG, you dishonor, with your non-Patriotism are 28 Congressional Medal of Honor winners, who happen to be Native Americans.

Wikipedia: Of the 3,469 Medals of Honor awarded as of 2010, 28 have been awarded to Native Americans.

Isn't your attitude, like spitting on their Bravery and their "Above and Beyond the Call of Duty" SERVICE?

Here are some those 28 U.S. HEROES

Gregory "PAPPY" Boyington - Sioux - Black Sheep Squadron Commander

Michael Red Cloud Jr. - Winnebago

Woodrow Keeble - Sioux


Oops, typos, it should have read: Why don't you send back your Indian Money if you want to continue to protest?
 
Jul 4, 2015
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What is interesting is when Hitler was murdering millions of Jewish people in the gas chambers the USA REFUSED to do anything about it. Why?

I tell you why because it only was Jewish people. The USA wanted nothing to do to save these people.

The USA only entered the war because of Japan, NOT because Hitler was murdering Jewish people.

So i guess VCO Patriotism does not apply in helping the Jewish people? Rescuing the Jewish people was only an afterthought.

Face it VCO America is nothing but a Racist Country ever since it was founded.
 
Jun 13, 2014
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No where in the bible does God reveal His Patriotism toward Israel, no where. Do not confuse His love with patriotism. Those who hail Israel a people more then the redeemed promote 'Believe in Israel or be an enemy to God', Baloney! Jesus gave us our marching orders....

Luke 9:1 Then He called His twelve disciples together and gave them power and authority over all demons, and to cure diseases. 2 He sent them to preach the kingdom of God and to heal the sick.

Nothing in the bible telling the reader to be patriotic, only Love God with all you might and Love your neighbor as much as you love yourself which is the Two Greatest Commandants. Definitely nothing about patriotism to Israel or America.


Matthew 23:37 (NASB)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.

Isaiah 51:4-5 (NKJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] "Listen to Me, My people; And give ear to Me, O My nation: For law will proceed from Me, And I will make My justice rest As a light of the peoples.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] My righteousness is near, My salvation has gone forth, And My arms will judge the peoples; The coastlands will wait upon Me, And on My arm they will trust.

Psalm 20:4-5 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] May He grant you your heart's desire And fulfill all your counsel!
[SUP]5 [/SUP] We will sing for joy over your victory, And in the name of our God we will set up our banners. May the LORD fulfill all your petitions.

As they crossed the Red Sea on dry ground, GOD showed HIS PATRIOTISM for ISRAEL and not for the Egyptian army pursuing them.

As DAVID slew GOLIATH, GOD showed His Patriotism for ISRAEL.

As Israel marched around Jericho, GOD showed His Patriotism for ISRAEL.

As GIDEON defeated the Midianites with only a few men, GOD showed HIS Patriotism of Israel.

Shall I go on?

You will have an EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TIME finding ONE Israelite who does not think GOD IS PATRIOTIC towards Israel.


[TABLE="class: bibleTable, width: 614"]
[TR]
[TD]Then He called His twelve disciples together and gave them power and authority over all demons, and to cure diseases.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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I would still like to hear VCO's thoughts on whether his children/grandchildren should show patriotism to China should they ever take over the US.

And should we endorse Christians currently in China to show patriotism to China?
 
Feb 28, 2016
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I'm just amazed that 'superm' is so ignorant about the reality of our world's History...

it's truly hard to believe that these are real people who cannot read and comprehend
historical facts that the world that they live in have proven, and than can keep themselves in satanic denial...
 
Jan 24, 2012
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Seriously, this is the EXACT argument that the left is using for the gay agenda. Jesus preached being obedient to rulers. Not to act in aggression. Jesus taught TOLERANCE for government and its transgressions. We should be TOLERANT of gays and our evil government. The left ( and VCO) preaches SUPPORT for evil. Not only should we TOLERATE our evil nation, we should SUPPORT it by being patriotic. Waving US flags, supporting its troops in its evil wars. Not only should we TOLERATE gays, we should SUPPORT them and their lifestyle. It's the same super-stretched argument.

No VCO, I will not support your evil government and its leftist, Marxist agendas. Sorry. Nationalism and Patriotism is still evil. It wasn't cool when the Nazis did it and it's still not cool when America does it.
 
Jan 24, 2012
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Also, I say again, you are traitor to your country (Britain) by claiming to be American. If you were practicing what you preached, you would be demanding the dissolution of the US government for an entirely different reason than me. You would be waving English flags above your front door and spitting on the Declaration of Independence every 4th of July, because you would be a patriot to your real country (Britain)

But...you're not. Because it's ok to not be patriotic to our country...as long as its not America, right?
 
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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
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Exodus 20:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP]“You shall not murder.

Luke 18:18-20
[SUP]18 [/SUP]A ruler questioned Him, saying, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” [SUP]19 [/SUP]And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone. [SUP]20 [/SUP]You know the commandments, ‘Do not commit adultery, Do not murder, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother.’”

Romans 13:9-10
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” [SUP]10 [/SUP]Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

1 John 3:15
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

All those who MURDERED the Native Americans will never enter into Heaven. The Lake of Fire is where they will go.

AND WHAT YOU DO NOT KNOW, is every one of them sins in the New Testament is in the Greek Perfect Tense, which we do not have in English, and it implies an ongoing lifestyle, without repenting, not a one time sin:

AND LIKE I POINTED OUT TO YOU, if that is the Yard Stick you want to use, KNOW it says if you stumble at one point you are GUILTY OF BRAKING ALL OF GOD'S LAWS TOO. It is time to lose your hatred and bitterness.

Mark 3:28-29 (RSV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] "Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter;
[SUP]29 [/SUP] but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin" --

That is REJECTING what the HOLY SPIRIT is trying to convince you in your HEART is absolutely TRUE about Jesus Christ, and HE is the ONLY SAVIOR THERE IS, ONLY HE CAN SAVE YOU FROM YOUR SINS. WE are as bad as the worst murderer on DEATH ROW, not better than him.

That is EXACTLY why JESUS told you not to JUDGE OR CONDEMN, that is PURELY HIS CALL. YOU ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO JUDGE OR CONDEMN.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Also, I say again, you are traitor to your country (Britain) by claiming to be American. If you were practicing what you preached, you would be demanding the dissolution of the US government for an entirely different reason than me. You would be waving English flags above your front door and spitting on the Declaration of Independence every 4th of July, because you would be a patriot to your real country (Britain)

But...you're not. Because it's ok to not be patriotic to our country...as long as its not America, right?
No, I would expect everyone to loyal to HIS COUNTRY, so why aren't you.

Just so you know, the signing of the Declaration of Independence, made it a new Country, not the war that followed.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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I would still like to hear VCO's thoughts on whether his children/grandchildren should show patriotism to China should they ever take over the US.

And should we endorse Christians currently in China to show patriotism to China?
I REPEAT, TRUE AMERICANS DO NOT SURRENDER. WE DID NOT LOSE IN VIETNAM, the Democratic CONGRESS refused to let us win, because they were more concerned about getting re-elected, than letting us WIN IT. SO your question is totally not relevant, we fight to the last man. IT IS NOT THEIR COUNTRY, as long a one American is willing to continue to FIGHT for our FREEDOM. My guess is WE CANNOT COUNT ON YOU.

The answer to your Last question is YES, as long as they are NOT ORDERED TO VIOLATE THE WILL OF GOD.


 
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jaybird88

Guest
I REPEAT, TRUE AMERICANS DO NOT SURRENDER. WE DID NOT LOSE IN VIETNAM, the Democratic CONGRESS refused to let us win, because they were more concerned about getting re-elected, than letting us WIN IT. SO your question is totally not relevant, we fight to the last man. IT IS NOT THEIR COUNTRY, as long a one American is willing to continue to FIGHT for our FREEDOM. My guess is WE CANNOT COUNT ON YOU.

The answer to your Last question is YES, as long as they are NOT ORDERED TO VIOLATE THE WILL OF GOD.


dont think vietnam was meant to be won, only dragged out as long as they could.
 
Jul 4, 2015
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Its interesting many still want to fight in Vietnam, but yet when the Jewish people were being murdered by Hitler the USA did not want to get involved!

Shane, shame on the USA.
 

Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
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Let's not forget that we're not to be attached to the things of this world. We're just passing through.

In no way am I intending to be disrespectful to those who fight for this country and a person's freedoms, just that we shouldn't forget that there will never truly be peace until Christ returns and puts things right. In the meantime we deal with the effects of sin and as a result, power hungry men that continually fail. Men have always failed.

So I don't believe we should put our trust in men. Psalm 146:3: "Do not put your trust in princes, Nor in a son of man, in whom there is no help"

I found it really comforting when I truly acknowledged that God is in control of everything. Nothing happens without His knowledge, and all things happen according to His will. I believe that no one becomes president unless He wills it to happen. As evil as the person might be, He has often used evil people to fulfill His purpose and how comforting when you truly do let it sink in, that He is in control of everything. He knows the beginning from the end. There are no surprises to Him.


Psalm 2:1-4: "Why do the nations rage, And the people plot a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, And the rulers take counsel together, Against the Lord and against His Anointed, saying, “Let us break Their bonds in pieces And cast away Their cords from us.” He who sits in the heavens shall laugh; The Lord shall hold them in derision.
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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I REPEAT, TRUE AMERICANS DO NOT SURRENDER. WE DID NOT LOSE IN VIETNAM, the Democratic CONGRESS refused to let us win, because they were more concerned about getting re-elected, than letting us WIN IT. SO your question is totally not relevant, we fight to the last man. IT IS NOT THEIR COUNTRY, as long a one American is willing to continue to FIGHT for our FREEDOM. My guess is WE CANNOT COUNT ON YOU.

The answer to your Last question is YES, as long as they are NOT ORDERED TO VIOLATE THE WILL OF GOD.
Aannd, you lost me right there, making it obvious there is not a rational conversation to be had. Fighting to the "last man" is not a scriptual instruction, nor is there a scriptual example of this position.

I'm done with the conversation.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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dont think vietnam was meant to be won, only dragged out as long as they could.

NO, it became politically incorrect to be for the WAR, among the majority of Democratic VOTERS, so Democrats in charge of Congress took over running the WAR. Coded messages came in from Congress, then they were hand translated, and then I RETYPED THEM, and sent them over to the B-52 crews. The Air Crews had to write CONGRESS to ask permission to strike EACH TARGET. THEY REFUSED PERMISSION to strike any target that would draw Media Attention, because they were afraid negative publicity would cost them re-election. Those requested targets that were DENIED, included the Largest Munitions Factory in Hanoi, and and even the very SAM sites that were shooting our birds down. The Democrats were running scared that more of Hanoi Jane's protests would cost them the Election. LIKE I SAID, we were not ALLOWED TO WIN.