People think you have to keep grace on a leash

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Jul 22, 2014
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This series might be the first parts of a 12 step program.
When I was done watching part 5, he said he is going to provide a part 6. So he may just go to a part 12 in time.

In any event, the only thing I have not heard in his videos so far (But may be on his other videos, articles, or books) is Jesus telling his disciples to pray (When they were in the Garden of Gethsemane) so as not to be led into temptation.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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When I was done watching part 5, he said he is going to provide a part 6. So he may just go to a part 12 in time.

In any event, the only thing I have not heard in his videos so far (But may be on his other videos, articles, or books) is Jesus telling his disciples to pray (When they were in the Garden of Gethsemane) so as not to be led into temptation.
Besides that, he is teaching some really great and powerful stuff according to the Scriptures, though.

For those who can't or who refuse to watch videos, his website is:

how to stop sinning | Alan's Blog. A place where iron sharpens iron.
 
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BradC

Senior Member
Jul 13, 2013
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You are basically trying to get me to believe that God would save people who are actively rebelling against Him and being evil. If that is the case, then why not just save everyone then? Do you really expect me to shut off my moral compass and buy into the idea that God's people can get away with doing evil? Not a chance. I would rather die before that happens.
Jason, that post just sailed right over your head and into oblivion. No one that believes in the grace of God and has their heart established in grace has a desire or an excuse in getting away with evil. You keep imputing that to the OSAS believers and it just is not in their conviction to do so. They may be weak and fail but to desire to do evil or to receive grace that sin may abound is not what they are after. There is no believer then one who is filled with the Spirit that is quicker at agreeing with God when it comes to conviction of sin and for those who are growing in grace it won't be long for them. So Jason, why don't you build up every believer in Christ through grace and allow God to use His grace to establish their heart so they can continue in grace and have it multiplied in their life! That would be a good ministry with good words of edification. When people get grace when they don't deserve it, it has a way of going deep to get at the root of the matter.
 
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Feb 21, 2012
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<snip>

Besides, who are truly a part of Jesus' family?

<snip>

But NOW in Christ Jesus you who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ . . . . For through him [Jesus Christ] we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore you are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow-citizens with the saints and of the household of God . . of which Christ is the head - that is the family - the household of God.
<snip> This is the type of faith that walks in the light as he is in the light whereby the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin (1 John 1:7).
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 6:28, 29 . . What must we do that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God that you believe on him whom he hath sent.
1 John 5:4,5 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God.
Acts 16:30,31 [the keeper of the prison] Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

No doubt you believe this because of Ephesians 1:13-14. However...
What is a guarantee?

Guarantee receipts normally have conditions which you can normally read in the ”fine print”. If you get a guarantee receipt for a certain product and you would like to make a claim, the store might request that you bring both the product and the receipt with you before they are willing to look at your claim. They might also request that you do this within a certain time frame and that you state what’s wrong with the product. Another example could be if someone buys you a bus ticket which guarantees you to get to a certain city PROVIDED that 1) you don’t throw away your ticket, 2) that you embark the right bus on the right time, and 3) that you STAY ON the bus until it arrives at the city. The BUS will arrive at the city as promised, but the question is if YOU will choose to be among the bus passengers.

The condition for my "sealing" is faith in Jesus Christ. I have been bought and paid for - therefore sealed and marked by God until Christ comes and redeems his prized possession. I may be a little leary of "man's guarantee" but when God guarantees something - I believe I can bank on it!
seal - sphragizo -
to set a seal upon, mark with a seal, to seal; for security: from Satan; since things sealed up are concealed (as the contents of a letter), to hide, keep in silence, keep secret; in order to mark a person or a thing; to set a mark upon by the impress of a seal or a stamp 1) angels are said to be sealed by God; in order to prove, confirm, or attest a thing; to confirm authenticate, place beyond doubt; 1) of a written document, 2) to prove one's testimony to a person that he is what he professes to be
Samuel 16:14
But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.


Psalm 5:11
Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me

I did say that in the OT and the gospels they could lose their salvation - the divine nature was not BORN in them as it is the body of Christ.

So circumcision was a ”seal” for those under the old covenant.

Romans 4:11
And he received the sign of circumcision, a SEAL of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also

This seal WAS broken and guaranteed nothing when those who were circumcised broke the covenant and were cut off from the people of God.

Romans 2:25-27
For circumcision verily profiteth, IF thou keep the law: but IF thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

As you can see, this seal was conditioned on continued faith and obedience. The Holy Spirit marks us as God’s children of the new covenant but if we abandon the faith, and/or live in disobedience then the Spirit of God no longer remains in us and we are no longer sealed. Circumcised (sealed) jews were broken off through unbelief.

And OT believers righteousness came by their obedience to the law - Deut. 6:25And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commanments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.
Acts. 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that
obey him.

John 14:15-16
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever

Romans 8:9-10
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, IF so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And IF Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

God speaks of the Israelites who ”grieved” His Holy Spirit in their rebellion. These Jews were cut off from the promise of entering God’s rest and they became God’s enemies.

Then those that are born again are not in the flesh but in the Spirit because they are born again and the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ dwells in them via the gift of holy Spirit and since Christ is in us our body is DEAD but the spirit is life because of righteousness - we have the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ.
I am not going to go on with this because you just continue to pit scripture against scripture . . . I can indeed grieve the holy Spirit . . . sure can . . . just as our earthly kids can grieve us by not doing what is right . . .
A seal can be broken - but the seal cannot and will not be broken until the day of redemption. That is what God has said and that is what he means . . .
Sorry I had to take a lot of text out for it was too long . . . .
 
Feb 21, 2012
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Well, please do not take this the wrong way, but from my plain reading of the Bible, it looks like you are not simply reading and believing 1 John 1:9 in what it plainly says. Yes, I understand how you would like 1st John chapter 1 to be only dealing with fellowship only. But that is not what 1 John 1:9 actually says, though. In fact, I highlighted the words in my previous post just so that you could not miss it. For 1 John 1:9 says .... IF WE CONFESS OUR SINS, -------> HE is FAITHFUL and just TO FORGIVE US OF OUR SINS. How can you be forgiven of future sin if when you confess sin, you are then forgiven of it? Are you ignoring 1 John 1:9? Are you interpretting to mean something else? If so, what verse in the 1st epistle of John gives you the clue that we are not forgiven of sin when we confess sin as per 1 John 1:9?

Anyways, unless you resolve this one simple easy to understand verse, I am not sure my discussing with you on the other verses is going to truly help you. I say this not to wound you, but I say this out of love according to the truth.

In any event, may God bless you.
And may His love shine upon you, too.

Sincerely,

~Jason....
Hey man, no offense taken at all . . .

v3-8 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have FELLOWSHIP WITH US: and truly OUR FELLOWSHIP is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ. If we say that we have FELLOWSHIP with him, and WALK in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth. If we say that we have FELLOWSHIP with him and WALK in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: but if we WALK in the light as he is in the light we have FELLOWSHIP one with another and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

So . . . if I had to guess, I would say that the context is about fellowship and our walk - whether we walk in fellowship, that is the light, or whether we walk out of fellowship, which would be darkness.




 
Jul 22, 2014
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Hey man, no offense taken at all . . .

v3-8 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have FELLOWSHIP WITH US: and truly OUR FELLOWSHIP is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ. If we say that we have FELLOWSHIP with him, and WALK in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth. If we say that we have FELLOWSHIP with him and WALK in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: but if we WALK in the light as he is in the light we have FELLOWSHIP one with another and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

So . . . if I had to guess, I would say that the context is about fellowship and our walk - whether we walk in fellowship, that is the light, or whether we walk out of fellowship, which would be darkness.




Yes, yielding to God, fellowship, forgiveness, and salvation are linked together. This is what 1st John chapter 1 is saying. You can highlight fellowship all day long in 1 John 1 but yet you are still ignoring the words that say, "if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins." Again, you can't be forgiven of sins by confessing sins if your future sin is forgiven you by some kind of false OSAS belief. You either believe 1 John 1:9 or you don't believe it.

Again, if we cannot resolve this simple verse as it is written plainly, I am afraid it will do not good to argue with you on any other point in Scripture. I say this again, not to wound you but out of love for God's truth within His Word.

Forgiveness of sins is dealing with salvation and not exclusively fellowship alone. 1 John 1:9 says we are forgiven of sin. Forgiven of sin. We are forgiven of sin. IF.... we confess our sins. That is what it says in 1 John 1:9.
 
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Jul 22, 2014
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Jason, that post just sailed right over your head and into oblivion. No one that believes in the grace of God and has their heart established in grace has a desire or an excuse in getting away with evil. You keep imputing that to the OSAS believers and it just is not in their conviction to do so. They may be weak and fail but to desire to do evil or to receive grace that sin may abound is not what they are after. There is no believer then one who is filled with the Spirit that is quicker at agreeing with God when it comes to conviction of sin and for those who are growing in grace it won't be long for them. So Jason, why don't you build up every believer in Christ through grace and allow God to use His grace to establish their heart so they can continue in grace and have it multiplied in their life! That would be a good ministry with good words of edification. When people get grace when they don't deserve it, it has a way of going deep to get at the root of the matter.
Well, it is true, that I did glaze thru what you had written because I know you are not really going to listen to anything I have to say (According to God's Word). However, it is not true that the majority (not all) of OSAS teachers teach true holiness or supports any good morals. How so? Well, there three reasons.

1. I have talked with many who think they can openly sin and still be saved. They said they can mow down a crowd of people with a machine gun and still be saved. For many believe they can commit suicide and be saved. George Sodoni murdered others thinkng he was saved and he was a huge proponent of Eternal Security or OSAS.

2. The doctrine itself leads one to think they have a license to sin. For OSAS teachers will say that one should live holy, but they will not say that living holy or not sinning is going to make them lose their salvation, though. In other words, to use a real world analogy: The OSAS teachers are basically saying that an alcoholic should stop drinking alcohol but they will not suffer any real bad lasting consequences if they do drink again. Many OSAS proponent believe that no believer can stop sinning ever within their life time. So by this analogy, they are basically telling the alcoholic that they should strive to stop drinking but they will never become alcohol free (or sin free), though. This is why it is a doctrine of evil. It is promoting one to be a slave to sin instead of a slave to righteousness.

3. You have given a "like" to a rebuttal to the top deadly seven beliefs held by OSAS proponents. I have shown using Scripture and real world examples that such beliefs are false and will lead a person into immorality and not holiness. Works Salvationists are more for doing that which is good and righteous. However, even they will also remain enslaved to sin because they have not stopped following the Law of Moses instead of exclusively submitting to the Law of Christ (or the Teachings of Jesus Christ under the New Testament).
 
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BradC

Senior Member
Jul 13, 2013
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Jason, why don't you do a thorough study on the Doctrine of Grace and see what you come up with. Don't do a partial one and come up short in areas that might extend your understanding about grace. Look at all the examples and teachings that have been given in the local assemblies and how even our Lord conducted himself in the presence of publicans and sinners. Look at all the apostle's words concerning God's grace and how they applied it in relationship to one another. Why did Paul open and close many of his writings with an exhortation of the grace of God to the local churches and to all believers, including those who were pastors.

Heb 2:9-11

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every (sinful) man.10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they (sinful man) who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
 
Feb 21, 2012
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Yes, yielding to God, fellowship, forgiveness, and salvation are linked together. This is what 1st John chapter 1 is saying. You can highlight fellowship all day long in 1 John 1 but yet you are still ignoring the words that say, "if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins." Again, you can't be forgiven of sins by confessing sins if your future sin is forgiven you by some kind of false OSAS belief. You either believe 1 John 1:9 or you don't believe it.
Well, if you had read my earlier post - I did say that I do confess - I think you would be surprised at how much I confess! I can be driving my car and get in slow traffic - start mouthing off just in my head and I STOP and ask forgiveness . . . and in all actuality that sin did not manifest out of my mouth!!!!
Again, if we cannot resolve this simple verse as it is written plainly, I am afraid it will do not good to argue with you on any other point in Scripture. I say this again, not to wound you but out of love for God's truth within His Word.

Forgiveness of sins is dealing with salvation and not exclusively fellowship alone. 1 John 1:9 says we are forgiven of sin. Forgiven of sin. We are forgiven of sin. IF.... we confess our sins. That is what it says in 1 John 1:9.
You are correct we will not come to an agreement -

BTW - repentance deals with salvation . . . forgiveness deals with our walk
 
Jul 22, 2014
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Well, if you had read my earlier post - I did say that I do confess - I think you would be surprised at how much I confess! I can be driving my car and get in slow traffic - start mouthing off just in my head and I STOP and ask forgiveness . . . and in all actuality that sin did not manifest out of my mouth!!!!

You are correct we will not come to an agreement -

BTW - repentance deals with salvation . . . forgiveness deals with our walk
Well, I am not saying you do not confess sin. That's not the problem. The problem is not in believing what the passage actually says plainly in the fact that it says you are forgiven of sin if you confess your sin. Being forgiven of sin is salvation. Not fellowship. Please explain to me how forgiveness of sin is dealing with fellowship instead of salvation? In other words, what you propose about 1 John 1:9 does not make any sense because it says we are forgiven of sin (Which is dealing with salvation).
 
Jul 22, 2014
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Jason, why don't you do a thorough study on the Doctrine of Grace and see what you come up with. Don't do a partial one and come up short in areas that might extend your understanding about grace. Look at all the examples and teachings that have been given in the local assemblies and how even our Lord conducted himself in the presence of publicans and sinners. Look at all the apostle's words concerning God's grace and how they applied it in relationship to one another. Why did Paul open and close many of his writings with an exhortation of the grace of God to the local churches and to all believers, including those who were pastors.

Heb 2:9-11

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every (sinful) man.10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they (sinful man) who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
I am aware of the Bible's concept of Grace. However, this is not OSAS Grace, though. Granted, I am always learning more and more within God's Word. So I will of course continue to study on Grace naturally. Anyways, seeing you made a recommendation for me, I have one for you, too. Please watch the videos that I posted recently within this thread. Take down notes on the verses he talks about in the videos and pray over them.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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Well, I am not saying you do not confess sin. That's not the problem. The problem is not in believing what the passage actually says plainly in the fact that it says you are forgiven of sin if you confess your sin. Being forgiven of sin is salvation. Not fellowship. Please explain to me how forgiveness of sin is dealing with fellowship instead of salvation? In other words, what you propose about 1 John 1:9 does not make any sense because it says we are forgiven of sin (Which is dealing with salvation).
Also.... 1 John 1:7 says the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us of all sin if we walk in the Light as He is in the Light. OSAS lies and says future sin is forgiven and covered by the blood for all time the moment you believe. Yet 1 John 1:7 says something different, though. It says you are cleansed by the blood of Jesus by walking in the Light.

So 1 John 1:9 says..... we are FORGIVEN of sin.
And 1 John 1:7 says.... the BLOOD CLEANSES us of all SIN.

How is that not talking about salvation?
 
Feb 21, 2012
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Well, I am not saying you do not confess sin. That's not the problem. The problem is not in believing what the passage actually says plainly in the fact that it says you are forgiven of sin if you confess your sin. Being forgiven of sin is salvation. Not fellowship. Please explain to me how forgiveness of sin is dealing with fellowship instead of salvation? In other words, what you propose about 1 John 1:9 does not make any sense because it says we are forgiven of sin (Which is dealing with salvation).
I have already shown you the context, that which is the subject of 1 John 1 . . . you can't see it that way. The subject is our walk of fellowship with fellow believers, with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ. Walking in the light is being in fellowship; walking in darkness is being out of fellowship . . . confessing our sin [our being out of fellowship, i.e. our walking in darkness] restores that fellowship.

Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of holy Spirit. Acts 2:38 - that is salvation.
 
Feb 21, 2012
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Also.... 1 John 1:7 says the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us of all sin if we walk in the Light as He is in the Light. OSAS lies and says future sin is forgiven and covered by the blood for all time the moment you believe. Yet 1 John 1:7 says something different, though. It says you are cleansed by the blood of Jesus by walking in the Light.

So 1 John 1:9 says..... we are FORGIVEN of sin.
And 1 John 1:7 says.... the BLOOD CLEANSES us of all SIN.

How is that not talking about salvation?
1 John 1:7 says - But if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

When we walk in the light; we have fellowship one with another, therefore of course we are cleansed for we are walking in the light . . . if we walk in darkness and say we have fellowship with him then we lie and do not the truth - then we confess our sins and our fellowship is restored for we are again walking in the light.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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peaceful,

It is close to impossible to persuade Jason of anything. The best you can hope for is to point out his errors so that undiscipled believers won't stumble over them.
 
Dec 26, 2012
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Well, I am not saying you do not confess sin. That's not the problem. The problem is not in believing what the passage actually says plainly in the fact that it says you are forgiven of sin if you confess your sin. Being forgiven of sin is salvation. Not fellowship. Please explain to me how forgiveness of sin is dealing with fellowship instead of salvation? In other words, what you propose about 1 John 1:9 does not make any sense because it says we are forgiven of sin (Which is dealing with salvation).
Jason,

Please explain HOW one can confess sins they are UNAWARE of doing? How are those forgiven?
 
Jul 22, 2014
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1 John 1:7 says - But if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

When we walk in the light; we have fellowship one with another, therefore of course we are cleansed for we are walking in the light . . . if we walk in darkness and say we have fellowship with him then we lie and do not the truth - then we confess our sins and our fellowship is restored for we are again walking in the light.
No. You don't believe 1 John 1:7 and 1 John 1:9 in what they plainly says. You seek to change the meaning so as to defend OSAS, whicb is not consistent with those verses.

I ask you.

How can you be out of fellowship with God (no doubt because of sin) and still be saved if 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the light as He is in the Light then the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin?

How can you read.... cleanses us of all sin by the blood of Jesus Christ and not think it is talking about salvation. Yes, I know believe the context says it is talking about fellowship, but if your OSAS belief of all future sin is forgiven you is actually true then why or how on Earth can you be cleansed of sin again by walking in the light or forgiven of sin by confessing sin?

What you believe is in contadiction to what God's Word says.
 
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Jul 22, 2014
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Jason,

Please explain HOW one can confess sins they are UNAWARE of doing? How are those forgiven?
1 John 5:16-18 talks about sins that do not lead unto death. This would be hidden or secret faults or sins as talked about in the Psalms. 1 John 1:9 is obviously in reference to serious sins that lead unto death (spiritual death).
 
Jul 22, 2014
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peaceful,

It is close to impossible to persuade Jason of anything. The best you can hope for is to point out his errors so that undiscipled believers won't stumble over them.
I have been convinced of many things within Scripture. I have let other believers show me what a verse is actually saying many times (When I thought otherwise). So this is an untrue statement.
 
Dec 26, 2012
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1 John 5:16-18 talks about sins that do not lead unto death. This would be hidden or secret faults or sins as talked about in the Psalms. 1 John 1:9 is obviously in reference to serious sins that lead unto death (spiritual death).
Jason,

I think you meant another chapter,chapter 5 only has 5 verses. Did you mean chapter 1?