People think you have to keep grace on a leash

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Feb 21, 2012
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Do you believe in any of the deadly seven?

Here are OSAS's Commonly Held Dark Beliefs:

#1. Future Sins are Forgiven.
I do ask forgiveness when I have sinned - to restore my salvation? NOPE - but to restore my fellowship with the Father, the Son and within the household.
#2. Sin only leads to Physical Death and Not Spiritual Death.
If you are born again - you are born again of imperishable seed - of incorruptible seed. Imperishable means it cannot perish - incorruptible means it cannot be corrupted.
#3. You can be out of Fellowship with God and still be Saved.
See #2 above . . . Our walk in the household of God is sometimes rocky but our "standing" in the household of God as a son or daughter is secure.
#
4. Not Confessing one Serious Sin before you die will not Send You to Hell.
No sin is more serious than another and ALL sin will be forgiven except for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Only those who do not confess Jesus Christ as Lord and believe God raised him from the dead will go to "hell". Those who have not repented - had a change of mind from an unbeliever to a believer.
#5. Once a Son Always a Son or You Cannot be Unborn.
See #2. This is correct. If a Christian can lose his salvation, God's imperishable seed would perish [1 Peter 1:23]; God's seal on us would be broken [Eph. 1:13,14; 2 Cor. 1:22; 2 Cor. 5:5]; our divine nature was not part of our nature at all [2 Peter 1:4]; the "guarantee" we had from God guaranteed absolutely nothing; we would have to become uncreated [2 Cor. 5:17]; our heavenly citizenship would have to be revoked [Phil. 3:20]; God's promise that we are already "seated in heavenly places" would be shown nul and void [Eph. 2:6]; the "surpassing glory" we are said to have would be no different from the glory of the Law [2 Cor. 3:10]; and the promise that NOTHING would separate us from God's love would be false [Romans 8:38,39].
#6. Sin Cannot break the seal of the Spirit.
Nothing can break a seal that God has placed upon us.
#7. We are sinners and nobody can be perfect (and nor can they stop sinning ever).
We are no longer sinners but we are children in the household of God and just as children anywhere - there will be times of disobedience. Our salvation does not hinge on obedience or disobedience but upon faith in Jesus Christ - Romans 10:9,10 - we confess Jesus as Lord, we believe God raised him from the dead - we ARE saved. And as long as we are in the flesh - we will fail at trying to make ourselves perfect for in the flesh dwelleth no good thing.
 

dcontroversal

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Dec 12, 2013
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I do ask forgiveness when I have sinned - to restore my salvation? NOPE - but to restore my fellowship with the Father, the Son and within the household.

If you are born again - you are born again of imperishable seed - of incorruptible seed. Imperishable means it cannot perish - incorruptible means it cannot be corrupted.

See #2 above . . . Our walk in the household of God is sometimes rocky but our "standing" in the household of God as a son or daughter is secure.
#
No sin is more serious than another and ALL sin will be forgiven except for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Only those who do not confess Jesus Christ as Lord and believe God raised him from the dead will go to "hell". Those who have not repented - had a change of mind from an unbeliever to a believer.

See #2. This is correct. If a Christian can lose his salvation, God's imperishable seed would perish [1 Peter 1:23]; God's seal on us would be broken [Eph. 1:13,14; 2 Cor. 1:22; 2 Cor. 5:5]; our divine nature was not part of our nature at all [2 Peter 1:4]; the "guarantee" we had from God guaranteed absolutely nothing; we would have to become uncreated [2 Cor. 5:17]; our heavenly citizenship would have to be revoked [Phil. 3:20]; God's promise that we are already "seated in heavenly places" would be shown nul and void [Eph. 2:6]; the "surpassing glory" we are said to have would be no different from the glory of the Law [2 Cor. 3:10]; and the promise that NOTHING would separate us from God's love would be false [Romans 8:38,39].

Nothing can break a seal that God has placed upon us.

We are no longer sinners but we are children in the household of God and just as children anywhere - there will be times of disobedience. Our salvation does not hinge on obedience or disobedience but upon faith in Jesus Christ - Romans 10:9,10 - we confess Jesus as Lord, we believe God raised him from the dead - we ARE saved. And as long as we are in the flesh - we will fail at trying to make ourselves perfect for in the flesh dwelleth no good thing.
Amen and I agree for sure......It is amazing how simple it is at the end of the day for sure........!
 
Jul 22, 2014
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Jason0047 said:
Here are OSAS's Commonly Held Dark Beliefs:

#1. Future Sins are Forgiven.
I do ask forgiveness when I have sinned - to restore my salvation? NOPE - but to restore my fellowship with the Father, the Son and within the household.
No, not true. The Bible says in 1 John 1:9 that confession leads to the forgiveness of sins. For it says,

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

In fact, in Psalm 51, when David sinned and was confessing his sin to the LORD, he cried out to him to blot out his iniquities (verse 9) and for the joy of his salvation to be returned unto him (verse 12).

Even in the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee: The Tax Collector was more justified than the Pharisee for crying out to God to have mercy on him for his sins (Luke 18:9-14). The word "justified" is declaring one being righteous or saved. This shows us that crying out to God to have mercy on our sins is related to Justification or salvation (For the English word "justified" or the Greek word "
dikaioō" has been used in reference to salvation before like with Romans 3:24, Romans 5:9, 1 Corinthians 6:11, Galatians 2:16). For this parable was not so much dealing with fellowship but it was dealing with being righteous or just before God. The Pharisee was not more just or righteous in this case because he refused to humble himself; And what the exact opposite of one being humble? Prideful. Which as we know "pride goeth before the fall", or as the Bible says, "pride goeth before destruction" (Proverbs16:18).

Does this work in the world? Yes. We can restore not only broken relationships with others by saying we are sorry to them (with a true feeling of guilt). In fact, to not say you are sorry to people if you have wronged them and just thinking they will forgive you anyways is not going to lead that other person to think you don't want to be forgiven by them. So forgiveness of sins and restoration of fellowship are tied together in our human relationships. I say this because Jesus illustrated spiritual truth by using real world examples (i.e. parables).

Jason0047 said:
#2. Sin only leads to Physical Death and Not Spiritual Death.
PeacefulBeliever said:
If you are born again - you are born again of imperishable seed - of incorruptible seed. Imperishable means it cannot perish - incorruptible means it cannot be corrupted.
Well, if we simply look at what it says in 1 John 3:15 this can easily be resolved. For it says he that hates his brother is equated with being a murderer and we know no murderer has eternal life abiding within them. This is confirmed by the fact that 1 John 2:9 says that he that says he is in the light and yet hates his brother is in darkness. In fact, in the beginning, God told Adam and Eve that in the day they will eat thereof of the wrong tree, they were going to die. Did they die physically? No. Did they have eternal physical life with God before that point? No. They needed to gain eternal physical life by eating of the Tree of Life. So God was saying that Adam and Eve's death was a spiritual death when they eat of the wrong tree (Which was a sin). In fact, this one sin had caused all the world to be out of fellowship and salvation with God whereby we would need a Savior to save us spiritually from our sins.

As for being born again by incorruptible seed as mentioned in 1 Peter 1:23: Well, we learn that this is talking about the Word of God. However, we learn in the Parable of the Sower that those who received the seed of the Word had gained victory over the devil because when one does not understand the Word, the devil will take away that seed which was sown in their heart (Matthew 13:19). For Jesus equates being able to understand what he says with leading to being converted and healed by Him; For He said, "
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them." (Matthew 13:15). This is further confirmed by 1 John 2:20 that says we have an anointing from the holy one to know all things.

Anyways, we learn that those who succeeded against the devil and believed and understood God's Word had all faced three different paths. One path for some was that the cares and riches of this life choked the Word. 1 Timothy 6:10 says, "For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows." In Mark 4:17, in various Modern Translations, they say that when persecution arises, they fall away.

So it's not that the Word is corruptible. The Word of God will always endure forever. It is about how does one apply God's Word to one's life by faith? If someone chooses to stop believing in God's Word, the LORD is not going to force them to continue to believe. If they choose to love their sin, or money more than Him, the LORD is not going to force a wicked servant who does not really love Him up into Heaven.

Jason0047 said:
#3. You can be out of Fellowship with God and still be Saved.
PeacefulBeliever said:
See #2 above . . . Our walk in the household of God is sometimes rocky but our "standing" in the household of God as a son or daughter is secure.
Where does it say that in the Bible?

Actually, there are several passages that tell us that you cannot be out of fellowship with God and be saved.


#1. 1 John 5:12 says He that has the Son has life and He that does not have the Son does not have life. Life is associated with eternal life or salvation.

#2. John 17:3 says eternal life is in knowing the one true God, Jesus Christ. Knowing implies a fellowship. So if you don't know Jesus, then you don't have life (Salvation).

#3. Romans 8:9 says if he a man does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to him.

#4. Psalm 73:27 says God will destroy all those who abandon Him (or go a whoring from Him).

#5. John 15:6 says if a man does not abide in Him, he is cast forth and burned.

#6. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the Light as He is in the Light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.

#7. Romans 11:21-22 says if you do not continue in his goodness you will be cut off. For if God spared not the natural branches (i.e. the Jews), take heed that he can do the same to you (i.e. Gentile believers). The analogy here is that you are branch and Christ is the tree. We need to continue in Christ's righteousness or goodness, not our own righteousness or goodness, or we will be cut off because of unbelief.

PeacefulBeliever said:
No sin is more serious than another and ALL sin will be forgiven except for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
Well, you refute yourself by saying no sin is more serious than another sin when you yourself have admitted that there is sin that is more serious that can lead to one being never forgiven. Which of course refutes OSAS. Because if all sin was forgiven and the same, then the sin of blasphemy should also be forgiven, too. But we both know it is not forgiven. Anyways, we know Scripture testifies in many places that not all sin is the same. For Moses calls the golden calf incident as a "great sin." (Exodus 32:30). In Ezekiel's allegory, he says Oholah (Samaria) had ruined herself by unfaithfulness to God, whereas, Oholibah (Jerusalem) "became more corrupt ... in her lust and in her whoring, which was worse than that of her sister (Ezekiel 23:11). Then there is John who tells us that there two different kinds of sins in 1 John 5:16-18. For John says there are sins that lead unto death and there are sins that do not lead unto death.


Also, Jesus said that there were greater sins when he said, "Thou couldest have no power
at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin." Jesus said that the Pharisees ignored the weightier matters of the Law such as Justice, love, faith, and mercy versus paying tithes (Matthew 23:23 and Luke 11:42); And we know sin is merely transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4).

Jason0047 said:
4. Not Confessing one Serious Sin before you die will not Send You to Hell.
PeacefulBeliever said:
Only those who do not confess Jesus Christ as Lord and believe God raised him from the dead will go to "hell". Those who have not repented - had a change of mind from an unbeliever to a believer.
Again, this is not all you have to do. So this is not true. Proverbs 28:13 says, "He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy." You also have to confess and forsake sin in order to have mercy, too. It's Bible 101; And Morality 101.

 
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Jason0047 said:
#5. Once a Son Always a Son or You Cannot be Unborn.
See #2. This is correct. If a Christian can lose his salvation, God's imperishable seed would perish [1 Peter 1:23]; God's seal on us would be broken [Eph. 1:13,14; 2 Cor. 1:22; 2 Cor. 5:5]; our divine nature was not part of our nature at all [2 Peter 1:4]; the "guarantee" we had from God guaranteed absolutely nothing; we would have to become uncreated [2 Cor. 5:17]; our heavenly citizenship would have to be revoked [Phil. 3:20]; God's promise that we are already "seated in heavenly places" would be shown nul and void [Eph. 2:6]; the "surpassing glory" we are said to have would be no different from the glory of the Law [2 Cor. 3:10]; and the promise that NOTHING would separate us from God's love would be false [Romans 8:38,39]
Well, as I stated before to you in the Parable of the Prodigal Son: A person cannot play ball with dead people or have dinners with them or have a two way conversation with them, or go out to the movies with them. They are not a part of your life like when they were alive. It's why the father in the Parable of the Prodigal Son had said his son was dead to him. For his son was no longer in his life anymore. It's as if he was dead. This of course is speaking in spiritual terms. For when did Jesus parables not speak in spiritual terms?

Besides, who are truly a part of Jesus' family?

The answer is given to us in Matthew 12:46-50.

"While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

This "Doing of His will" is confirmed by Jesus saying to the woman at the well that His meat was to do the will of the Father and to finish his work (John 4:34). Jesus tells his followers in John 6 that those who eat of his flesh (his meat, i.e. do his will and work) will have eternal life (John 6:54). We drink of his blood by believing by faith that his blood cleanses of us of past sins (Romans 3:25), this is not just a belief alone, either type faith. For the devils also believe and tremble. This is the type of faith that walks in the light as he is in the light whereby the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin (1 John 1:7).

Jason0047 said:
#6. Sin Cannot break the seal of the Spirit.
PeacefulBeliever said:
Nothing can break a seal that God has placed upon us.
No doubt you believe this because of Ephesians 1:13-14. However...

What is a guarantee?

Guarantee receipts normally have conditions which you can normally read in the ”fine print”. If you get a guarantee receipt for a certain product and you would like to make a claim, the store might request that you bring both the product and the receipt with you before they are willing to look at your claim. They might also request that you do this within a certain time frame and that you state what’s wrong with the product. Another example could be if someone buys you a bus ticket which guarantees you to get to a certain city PROVIDED that 1) you don’t throw away your ticket, 2) that you embark the right bus on the right time, and 3) that you STAY ON the bus until it arrives at the city. The BUS will arrive at the city as promised, but the question is if YOU will choose to be among the bus passengers.

Samuel 16:14
But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul,
and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

Psalm 5:11
Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me

So circumcision was a ”seal” for those under the old covenant.

Romans 4:11
And he received the sign of circumcision, a SEAL of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also

This seal WAS broken and guaranteed nothing when those who were circumcised broke the covenant and were cut off from the people of God.

Romans 2:25-27
For circumcision verily profiteth, IF thou keep the law: but IF thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

As you can see, this seal was conditioned on continued faith and obedience. The Holy Spirit marks us as God’s children of the new covenant but if we abandon the faith, and/or live in disobedience then the Spirit of God no longer remains in us and we are no longer sealed. Circumcised (sealed) jews were broken off through unbelief.

Acts. 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

John 14:15-16
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever

Romans 8:9-10
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, IF so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And IF Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

God speaks of the Israelites who ”grieved” His Holy Spirit in their rebellion. These Jews were cut off from the promise of entering God’s rest and they became God’s enemies.

Isaiah 63:10
But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: THEREFORE he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them. —

Isaiah 63:14
As a beast goeth down into the valley, the Spirit of the LORD caused him to rest: so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name.


In the NT the ”rest” is the eternal rest that all believers will attain. The book of Hebrews continually speak of the promise of eternal rest, in combination with WARNINGS to believers not to miss out on this promised rest through hardening their hearts in unbelief, just as the Israelites did who rebelled against God during the Exodus.

Hebrews 3:6-19
But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we,if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end. Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Hebrews 4:1-11
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said,To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Hebrews 6: 11-12
And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end: That ye be not slothful, but followers ofthem who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Jude 1:5
I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not



Source Used:
Sealed UNTO the day of redemption, but a seal can be broken Eph. 4:30 | Bjorkbloggen
 
Feb 21, 2012
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No, not true. The Bible says in 1 John 1:9 that confession leads to the forgiveness of sins. For it says,

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

In fact, in Psalm 51, when David sinned and was confessing his sin to the LORD, he cried out to him to blot out his iniquities (verse 9) and for the joy of his salvation to be returned unto him (verse 12).

How can someone that God makes righteous through the new birth within that new creation that is divine in nature become unrighteous? - in the flesh but not in the spirit that is incorruptible/imperishable
The whole of 1 John 1 speaks of fellowship - It has to do with our walk not with our salvation.

Even in the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee: The Tax Collector was more justified than the Pharisee for crying out to God to have mercy on him for his sins (Luke 18:9-14). The word "justified" is declaring one being righteous or saved. This shows us that crying out to God to have mercy on our sins is related to Justification or salvation (For the English word "justified" or the Greek word "
dikaioō" has been used in reference to salvation before like with Romans 3:24, Romans 5:9, 1 Corinthians 6:11, Galatians 2:16). For this parable was not so much dealing with fellowship but it was dealing with being righteous or just before God. The Pharisee was not more just or righteous in this case because he refused to humble himself; And what the exact opposite of one being humble? Prideful. Which as we know "pride goeth before the fall", or as the Bible says, "pride goeth before destruction" (Proverbs16:18).

In the OT and in the gospels, people could loose their salvation - the new birth was not available until Pentecost - with the grace administration. It's as always - you do not understand the concept of "birth".
Does this work in the world? Yes. We can restore not only broken relationships with others by saying we are sorry to them (with a true feeling of guilt). In fact, to not say you are sorry to people if you have wronged them and just thinking they will forgive you anyways is not going to lead that other person to think you don't want to be forgiven by them. So forgiveness of sins and restoration of fellowship are tied together in our human relationships. I say this because Jesus illustrated spiritual truth by using real world examples (i.e. parables).

It works with God also - we are his children born again and partakers of the divine nature - asking forgiveness restores our broken relationship with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.
What causes our broken fellowship? - walking in darkness
What is walking in darkness? It is sin. Until we confess that we have sinned we are in darkness, i.e. out of fellowship but we are still God's kid. If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth - see - if we walk in darkness we are out of fellowship with him . . . All wrong doing is sin (darkness) it breaks fellowship.
Well, if we simply look at what it says in 1 John 3:15 this can easily be resolved. For it says he that hates his brother is equated with being a murderer and we know no murderer has eternal life abiding within them. This is confirmed by the fact that 1 John 2:9 says that he that says he is in the light and yet hates his brother is in darkness. In fact, in the beginning, God told Adam and Eve that in the day they will eat thereof of the wrong tree, they were going to die. Did they die physically? No. Did they have eternal physical life with God before that point? No. They needed to gain eternal physical life by eating of the Tree of Life. So God was saying that Adam and Eve's death was a spiritual death when they eat of the wrong tree (Which was a sin). In fact, this one sin had caused all the world to be out of fellowship and salvation with God whereby we would need a Savior to save us spiritually from our sins.
I have been through the HATE thing with you before and you fail to see the context - He used Cain as an example - Cain who was OF the evil one and belonged to the evil one - we do not - we are OF God and belong to God . . .
As for being born again by incorruptible seed as mentioned in 1 Peter 1:23: Well, we learn that this is talking about the Word of God. However, we learn in the Parable of the Sower that those who received the seed of the Word had gained victory over the devil because when one does not understand the Word, the devil will take away that seed which was sown in their heart (Matthew 13:19). For Jesus equates being able to understand what he says with leading to being converted and healed by Him; For He said, "
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them." (Matthew 13:15). This is further confirmed by 1 John 2:20 that says we have an anointing from the holy one to know all things.
Anyways, we learn that those who succeeded against the devil and believed and understood God's Word had all faced three different paths. One path for some was that the cares and riches of this life choked the Word. 1 Timothy 6:10 says, "For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows." In Mark 4:17, in various Modern Translations, they say that when persecution arises, they fall away.

So it's not that the Word is corruptible. The Word of God will always endure forever. It is about how does one apply God's Word to one's life by faith? If someone chooses to stop believing in God's Word, the LORD is not going to force them to continue to believe. If they choose to love their sin, or money more than Him, the LORD is not going to force a wicked servant who does not really love Him up into Heaven.
You may have learned that incorruptible seed is speaking about the word of God BUT that is not what that verse says:
Being born again, [How are we born again? being born of the Spirit], not of corruptible seed, [our first birth] but of incorruptible [seed, implanted at the time we were born again - partakers of the divine nature] by [through] the word of God which liveth and abideth for ever [Rom. 10:17 - Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God]
Where does it say that in the Bible?

It takes reading comprehension to see some things. It stands to reason if we are BORN into a family [which we have been over this before, Jason - you just refuse to see the simplicity], we belong in that family. And we are born into the household of God with Jesus Christ as our head - we are the body of Christ.
Actually, there are several passages that tell us that you cannot be out of fellowship with God and be saved.
#1. 1 John 5:12 says He that has the Son has life and He that does not have the Son does not have life. Life is associated with eternal life or salvation.
Those that are born again have the Son. Those that are born again are PROMISED eternal life through faith. He that believeth on him is not condemned; but he that believeth not is condemned already because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
#2. John 17:3 says eternal life is in knowing the one true God, Jesus Christ. Knowing implies a fellowship. So if you don't know Jesus, then you don't have life (Salvation).
John 17:3 And this is life eternal that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.

#3. Romans 8:9 says if he a man does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to him.
Those that are born again are born again of the Spirit - incorruptible seed - God in Christ dwells in us via the gift of holy spirit by which we are sealed until the day of redemption.
#4. Psalm 73:27 says God will destroy all those who abandon Him (or go a whoring from Him).
Written to Israel not to the church of God. [3 classifications of people - Jew, Gentile, church of God] OT is written for our learning so that we can live a blessed life, and it is great to study it to know how to live right but we have something more glorious - the administration of grace and the beginning of the church is NEW [Acts 2], belonging to the body of Christ is something NEW, the new birth is something NEW . . . .
#5. John 15:6 says if a man does not abide in Him, he is cast forth and burned.
Not written or addressed to the church - new birth not available . . . the gospels were written to people still under the law - Knowing the different administrations and understanding what parts of scripture are written to whom - helps explain many apparent contradictions - especially concerning salvation - some things that are relative to OT believers may not be relative to the body of Christ. Our works will be burned - there will be some that remain, there will be some that are burned completely but we will be saved!
#6. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the Light as He is in the Light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.
I would say that most of us do walk in the Light as He is in the light - AGAIN you are using scripture that has to do with our walk . . . not our salvation.
#7. Romans 11:21-22 says if you do not continue in his goodness you will be cut off. For if God spared not the natural branches (i.e. the Jews), take heed that he can do the same to you (i.e. Gentile believers). The analogy here is that you are branch and Christ is the tree. We need to continue in Christ's righteousness or goodness, not our own righteousness or goodness, or we will be cut off because of unbelief.

v1, v7 Hath God cast away his people? . . . Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded - I am not of Israel; v13 For I speak to you Gentiles inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I am not a Gentile. So in context - speaking to Israel, speaking to Gentiles.
I am in the body of Christ where there is no distinction between Jew or Gentile.

Well, you refute yourself by saying no sin is more serious than another sin when you yourself have admitted that there is sin that is more serious that can lead to one being never forgiven. Which of course refutes OSAS. Because if all sin was forgiven and the same, then the sin of blasphemy should also be forgiven, too. But we both know it is not forgiven. Anyways, we know Scripture testifies in many places that not all sin is the same. For Moses calls the golden calf incident as a "great sin." (Exodus 32:30). In Ezekiel's allegory, he says Oholah (Samaria) had ruined herself by unfaithfulness to God, whereas, Oholibah (Jerusalem) "became more corrupt ... in her lust and in her whoring, which was worse than that of her sister (Ezekiel 23:11). Then there is John who tells us that there two different kinds of sins in 1 John 5:16-18. For John says there are sins that lead unto death and there are sins that do not lead unto death.

Also, Jesus said that there were greater sins when he said, "Thou couldest have no power
at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin." Jesus said that the Pharisees ignored the weightier matters of the Law such as Justice, love, faith, and mercy versus paying tithes (Matthew 23:23 and Luke 11:42); And we know sin is merely transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4).

Again, this is not all you have to do. So this is not true. Proverbs 28:13 says, "He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy." You also have to confess and forsake sin in order to have mercy, too. It's Bible 101; And Morality 101.
I cannot believe how you nit pik the scriptures . . . The sin that cannot be forgiven specifically spoken of is blasphemy of the holy Spirit. - Wherefore I say unto you, ALL manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: BUT the blasphemy against the holy Spirit shall not be forgiven unto men. And of course - when one does not believe on the only begotten Son of God they are condemned already . . .

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. My sins are not "covered" - they are completely washed away and I can't even bring them back to God's remembrance!
 
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Jason0047 said:
#7. We are sinners and nobody can be perfect (and nor can they stop sinning ever).
We are no longer sinners but we are children in the household of God and just as children anywhere - there will be times of disobedience. Our salvation does not hinge on obedience or disobedience but upon faith in Jesus Christ - Romans 10:9,10 - we confess Jesus as Lord, we believe God raised him from the dead - we ARE saved. And as long as we are in the flesh - we will fail at trying to make ourselves perfect for in the flesh dwelleth no good thing.


[VIDEO=youtube;wumxl6lLEdI]https://youtu.be/wumxl6lLEdI[/VIDEO]
 
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[VIDEO=youtube;-AQtoN_HdIo]https://youtu.be/-AQtoN_HdIo[/VIDEO]
 
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[VIDEO=youtube;xjxOogu-odk]https://youtu.be/xjxOogu-odk[/VIDEO]
 
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[VIDEO=youtube;G9f9bGkBxM0]https://youtu.be/G9f9bGkBxM0[/VIDEO]

 
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[VIDEO=youtube;p2HYQBuWEkI]https://youtu.be/p2HYQBuWEkI[/VIDEO]

 
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[VIDEO=youtube;SxpvseIcAU8]https://youtu.be/SxpvseIcAU8[/VIDEO]
 
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[VIDEO=youtube;FRIVh0hxjmI]https://youtu.be/FRIVh0hxjmI[/VIDEO]
 
P

psychomom

Guest
so.....this is still happening.

wonder what happened to the OP? :(
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
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[VIDEO=youtube;xjxOogu-odk]https://youtu.be/xjxOogu-odk[/VIDEO]
How to stop sinning??
............all neatly wrapped up in a few YouTube videos?


Here I am searching the scriptures, praying, letting God guide me.......stuff like that.



Silly me. :(
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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How to stop sinning??
............all neatly wrapped up in a few YouTube videos?


Here I am searching the scriptures, praying, letting God guide me.......stuff like that.



Silly me. :(
This series might be the first parts of a 12 step program.
 
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The whole of 1 John 1 speaks of fellowship - It has to do with our walk not with our salvation.
Well, please do not take this the wrong way, but from my plain reading of the Bible, it looks like you are not simply reading and believing 1 John 1:9 in what it plainly says. Yes, I understand how you would like 1st John chapter 1 to be only dealing with fellowship only. But that is not what 1 John 1:9 actually says, though. In fact, I highlighted the words in my previous post just so that you could not miss it. For 1 John 1:9 says .... IF WE CONFESS OUR SINS, -------> HE is FAITHFUL and just TO FORGIVE US OF OUR SINS. How can you be forgiven of future sin if when you confess sin, you are then forgiven of it? Are you ignoring 1 John 1:9? Are you interpretting to mean something else? If so, what verse in the 1st epistle of John gives you the clue that we are not forgiven of sin when we confess sin as per 1 John 1:9?

Anyways, unless you resolve this one simple easy to understand verse, I am not sure my discussing with you on the other verses is going to truly help you. I say this not to wound you, but I say this out of love according to the truth.

In any event, may God bless you.
And may His love shine upon you, too.

Sincerely,

~Jason.


...
 
Jul 22, 2014
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How to stop sinning??
............all neatly wrapped up in a few YouTube videos?


Here I am searching the scriptures, praying, letting God guide me.......stuff like that.



Silly me.
Well, he uses many Scriptures in the Bible to show you just that. There are verses that you can write down, pray over, and go by the leading of the Spirit.

As for providing this teaching according to Scripture in video format:

Videos are just a method of communication just as a forum is a medium of communication.
 

BradC

Senior Member
Jul 13, 2013
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Romans 5:20 is best understood when you read Romans 7:7-25; And when you pay special close attention to verse 13.

Also, Romans 5:20 CEV (Contemporary English Version) clears up any misunderstanding you might have about it, too.

For it says,

"The Law came, so that the full power of sin could be seen. Yet where sin was powerful, God’s kindness was even more powerful." (Romans 5:20 CEV).

In other words, the Law was not added so as to increase sin, but to make man aware of his own sinfulness. In other words, it's like turning a light on the room and seeing cockroaches scatter. The Law was a way of showing man's own sinfulness or darkness so as to get him to realize his need for a Savior. Because well... the world was already plenty sinful enough long before the Law of Moses. For God had once destroyed the world with a global flood because of sin (Saving only Noah and his family). For why would God increase that which would He despises and or increase that which would lead Him to bring Judgment upon man? He wouldn't. The Law merely appeared to make the trespass abound or appear exceedingly sinful from man's perspective. This is why Paul says in Romans 7:13 says,

"Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful." (Romans 7:13).
Jason, when it comes to sin, there is no limit to depravity, even for the believer who has trusted Christ. There are things that God brings to a head in the believer's life that they never knew even existed in their own life and that goes for you and me Jason. There are things in our soul that are so wrapped up in the flesh that if God decided to shine the light on them we wouldn't even know how to rid ourself of them because repentance would fall way short in accomplishing that task. They have such a deep root that repentance would be nothing more than a superficial and shallow attempt to make right what you did not even know was a wrong in your life.

It's like Peter telling Jesus in (John 13:33-38) that he would follow him to the cross and lay down his life. Peter had no idea what was even in his heart and soul that consequently made him deny the Lord three times and even curse him before the crowd, but Jesus knew. You would have never thought that of Peter, such an avid follower of the Christ and was the only disciple that had received that revelation of the Father that Jesus was the Christ, the anointed one.

Jason, you have no idea what is in your heart or the depths of a deceitful and desperately wicked heart (Jer 17:9, Isaiah 1:5,6). So wicked that even when you do good evil is still presently with you and you are uniquely aware of that wickedness in your conscience. Don't deny it, for if you did you make yourself a liar. You need to get to know the grace of God and stop following the letter of the law after your own heart.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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so.....this is still happening.

wonder what happened to the OP?

I don't believe I am off topic with what the heart of the post is about at all. The original post is asking the question from an OSAS grace perspective and not from a Biblical grace perspective. He is presupposing that grace is sufficent to cover future sin or present unconfessed sin within a believer's life (Hence, we should not put a leash on grace in the type of sins it can cover). However, it just doesn't cover really bad sins like murder, etc., though (According to the OP). Therefore, this type of discussion is going to talk about the proper view of Soteriology according to the Scriptures (Which would include one to stop in living a lifestyle of habitual sin).
 
Jul 22, 2014
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Jason, when it comes to sin, there is no limit to depravity, even for the believer who has trusted Christ. There are things that God brings to a head in the believer's life that they never knew even existed in their own life and that goes for you and me Jason. There are things in our soul that are so wrapped up in the flesh that if God decided to shine the light on them we wouldn't even know how to rid ourself of them because repentance would fall way short in accomplishing that task. They have such a deep root that repentance would be nothing more than a superficial and shallow attempt to make right what you did not even know was a wrong in your life.

It's like Peter telling Jesus in (John 13:33-38) that he would follow him to the cross and lay down his life. Peter had no idea what was even in his heart and soul that consequently made him deny the Lord three times and even curse him before the crowd, but Jesus knew. You would have never thought that of Peter, such an avid follower of the Christ and was the only disciple that had received that revelation of the Father that Jesus was the Christ, the anointed one.

Jason, you have no idea what is in your heart or the depths of a deceitful and desperately wicked heart (Jer 17:9, Isaiah 1:5,6). So wicked that even when you do good evil is still presently with you and you are uniquely aware of that wickedness in your conscience. Don't deny it, for if you did you make yourself a liar. You need to get to know the grace of God and stop following the letter of the law after your own heart.
You are basically trying to get me to believe that God would save people who are actively rebelling against Him and being evil. If that is the case, then why not just save everyone then? Do you really expect me to shut off my moral compass and buy into the idea that God's people can get away with doing evil? Not a chance. I would rather die before that happens.