Perfection in the Flesh - A Modern Strawman - Heresy of Penal Substitution
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This is what i asked
This was your response
Because He did a work in me that I could not on my own..thats why.
But once again..im just words on a screen..so, you can decide of speaking the truth is unloving.
It did not answer the question,and it is a very very important question you need to answer for yourself. How do you know if you are missing the two fruits above,how do you know you have the Holy Spirit? It doesn't say we only have one of them we have all nine. So again I ask do you have joy and peace? (You need to answer this one for your own sake)
This was your response
Because He did a work in me that I could not on my own..thats why.
But once again..im just words on a screen..so, you can decide of speaking the truth is unloving.
It did not answer the question,and it is a very very important question you need to answer for yourself. How do you know if you are missing the two fruits above,how do you know you have the Holy Spirit? It doesn't say we only have one of them we have all nine. So again I ask do you have joy and peace? (You need to answer this one for your own sake)
P
accuser. of. the. brethren. (get behind me)
go ahead and name names, Raul.
you already (falsely) accused Abiding of being a sinful charismatic,
though I dare you to find ONE post to back that up.
go ahead...we'll play the jeopardy music while you go search.
found one yet?
no? hmmm...well, you won't, so you know what?
put up or shut up.
find ONE post that proves Abiding is even charismatic (let alone an unrepentant sinner),
or apologize.
while you're at it, fine ONE post to prove that 'some' say repentance isn't needed in our walk with God.
fine ONE post where I, or anyone else who may be included in your group of 'some's and 'they's
denies that the believer has a need of confessing their sin and repenting.
the Word says we are to treat others as we want to be treated, so all I can conclude is that you would like to have false allegations asserted against you.
since you never talk of anything whatsoever than sin and holiness,
your 'gospel' is devoid of the love of God and the mercy and grace of God and the forgiveness of God
which is unmerited by the sinner.
and while we are at it, let me also say that your 'gospel' is utterly devoid of helping others, and dying to self
for the benefit of others (not just for your own sake so your walk remains 'pure')
[and those words about your walk being pure make me sick to my stomach]
sooo...how'd'ya like it, Raul?
feel good to have someone who does not personally know you judge you?
doesn't it make you know that the love of God dwells in my heart toward you?
shall I say it in french or in latin so you hear it better?
you say you have the "full 'gospel' ".
but you don't, you have the LAW, and NO grace, No love, NO mercy.
again---how does that strike you?
you NEVER speak of the love of God saving us,
or the complete unmeritedness of it,
so I must conclude that though you might share your 'gospel' with others,
you have NEVER seen someone saved by it...not really saved.
terrified, maybe, but not saved because the LAW cannot save,
and that's all you've got.
you see, Raul, the LAW leads us to Jesus, Who saves us.
not just that first time, when God redeems you and makes you His own,
but all throughout the life of the believer, the Law of God stirs up the conscience,
which causes us to run to Jesus to be cleaned up and put back on the right path
and of course we confess our sin to Him and change our minds (repent) about it. (see 1 John 3, and especially this next part)
1 John 3
[SUP]14 [/SUP]We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death. [SUP]
15 [/SUP]Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. (! !) [SUP]
16 [/SUP]We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. [SUP]
17 [/SUP]But whoever has the world’s goods, and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him? [SUP]
18 [/SUP]Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth. (yes, I see this and know it to be truth, and watch this next part) [SUP]
19 [/SUP]We will know by this (by what? by loving in action and in truth) that we are of the truth, and will assure our heart before Him [SUP]
20 [/SUP]in whatever our heart condemns us;
for
God
is
greater
than
our
heart
and knows all things. (including what motivates our heart!) [SUP]
21 [/SUP]Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God
Most people are familiar with the KJV of 1 John 3:20, which beautifully puts it:
"For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart and knows all things."
How often do you include that in your 'gospel?
I've tried to be patient with you for you are young, and just entering to the time of life when great learning takes place, if you're lucky.
and so am I, for all I know.
but this accusing of ALL who may believe anything of reformed theology
based on the people you know is tiresome and ridiculous.
YOU believe some of reformed theology, though you may not be willing to admit it, or even know it.
as if you know enough people to make that leap!
and again I must say: shallow sin concept.
if you had any idea of what sin really is, and how wretched our hearts really are,
ýou wouldn't speak so freely of it.
and if you had any idea what holiness--the holiness of God really is, and how far above us and how impossible to attain in these bodies, (or AT ALL, without the saving grace of God)
you would not speak so freely of it.
but for a start, go and learn what mercy means.
and then begin offering some apologies.
begin with Abiding---he will, I am certain, forgive you.
go ahead and name names, Raul.
you already (falsely) accused Abiding of being a sinful charismatic,
though I dare you to find ONE post to back that up.
go ahead...we'll play the jeopardy music while you go search.
found one yet?
no? hmmm...well, you won't, so you know what?
put up or shut up.
find ONE post that proves Abiding is even charismatic (let alone an unrepentant sinner),
or apologize.
while you're at it, fine ONE post to prove that 'some' say repentance isn't needed in our walk with God.
fine ONE post where I, or anyone else who may be included in your group of 'some's and 'they's
denies that the believer has a need of confessing their sin and repenting.
the Word says we are to treat others as we want to be treated, so all I can conclude is that you would like to have false allegations asserted against you.
since you never talk of anything whatsoever than sin and holiness,
your 'gospel' is devoid of the love of God and the mercy and grace of God and the forgiveness of God
which is unmerited by the sinner.
and while we are at it, let me also say that your 'gospel' is utterly devoid of helping others, and dying to self
for the benefit of others (not just for your own sake so your walk remains 'pure')
[and those words about your walk being pure make me sick to my stomach]
sooo...how'd'ya like it, Raul?
feel good to have someone who does not personally know you judge you?
doesn't it make you know that the love of God dwells in my heart toward you?
shall I say it in french or in latin so you hear it better?
you say you have the "full 'gospel' ".
but you don't, you have the LAW, and NO grace, No love, NO mercy.
again---how does that strike you?
you NEVER speak of the love of God saving us,
or the complete unmeritedness of it,
so I must conclude that though you might share your 'gospel' with others,
you have NEVER seen someone saved by it...not really saved.
terrified, maybe, but not saved because the LAW cannot save,
and that's all you've got.
you see, Raul, the LAW leads us to Jesus, Who saves us.
not just that first time, when God redeems you and makes you His own,
but all throughout the life of the believer, the Law of God stirs up the conscience,
which causes us to run to Jesus to be cleaned up and put back on the right path
and of course we confess our sin to Him and change our minds (repent) about it. (see 1 John 3, and especially this next part)
1 John 3
[SUP]14 [/SUP]We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death. [SUP]
15 [/SUP]Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. (! !) [SUP]
16 [/SUP]We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. [SUP]
17 [/SUP]But whoever has the world’s goods, and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him? [SUP]
18 [/SUP]Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth. (yes, I see this and know it to be truth, and watch this next part) [SUP]
19 [/SUP]We will know by this (by what? by loving in action and in truth) that we are of the truth, and will assure our heart before Him [SUP]
20 [/SUP]in whatever our heart condemns us;
for
God
is
greater
than
our
heart
and knows all things. (including what motivates our heart!) [SUP]
21 [/SUP]Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God
Most people are familiar with the KJV of 1 John 3:20, which beautifully puts it:
"For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart and knows all things."
How often do you include that in your 'gospel?
I've tried to be patient with you for you are young, and just entering to the time of life when great learning takes place, if you're lucky.
and so am I, for all I know.
but this accusing of ALL who may believe anything of reformed theology
based on the people you know is tiresome and ridiculous.
YOU believe some of reformed theology, though you may not be willing to admit it, or even know it.
as if you know enough people to make that leap!
and again I must say: shallow sin concept.
if you had any idea of what sin really is, and how wretched our hearts really are,
ýou wouldn't speak so freely of it.
and if you had any idea what holiness--the holiness of God really is, and how far above us and how impossible to attain in these bodies, (or AT ALL, without the saving grace of God)
you would not speak so freely of it.
but for a start, go and learn what mercy means.
and then begin offering some apologies.
begin with Abiding---he will, I am certain, forgive you.
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If you think I am going to read all these pages, you are wrong. Perfection in the flesh.... Can it be obtained? It depends, who is the WORKER of that perfection? You or God? If it is you, NO! If it is God it cannot be anything but perfect.
Now does God give so much love in a person that, that person actually and Truly does have God's love in his heart. A PERFECT LOVE ENSURING A PERFECT MAN? If I say yes God can do that, it means NOTHING! but if God says that He can and HE DOES, then ..... GET BEHIND ME SATAN!
Here goes.... 1 John 2:5..But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. So far, by your own admissions you all do not keep His word, yet you claim to be IN HIM and HE IN YOU. So either God is lying or you are, and my calculated guess is you are ling, or do not know what you talk about. Me I am sinner, no argument there, but only because I am not IN HIM and He is not IN ME! I have some of His love, true, but did Christ come for me yet, NO! Am I born of God and cannot sin, NO! (1 John 3:9)
Do I have hope... OH YES! God leads before HE FILLS! Are we not lead by the Spirit before He FILLS us, and only then does he perfect the LOVE OF GOD?
If sinless perfection means God's love is perfected in a person, do any of you think God does not perfect His Love in people? And if that love is not sinless perfection, where would the LOVE OF GOD fail? It NEVER did and NEVER will.
You are bad teachers with bad doctrines. Just because you tried and failed, now you teach God CANNOT make a perfect man? I think you are going to have a hard time come explaination day! Oh just becasue I know no holy man, there is no holy man? Jesus was holy and perfect, And ALL God's sons are recreated in HIS image. Thank God for that. Unto A PERFECT MAN Eph 4 says. God says PERFECT man, you all say NO SUCH THING, so STRAWMEN go stand in the field and chase away the holy birds.
Now does God give so much love in a person that, that person actually and Truly does have God's love in his heart. A PERFECT LOVE ENSURING A PERFECT MAN? If I say yes God can do that, it means NOTHING! but if God says that He can and HE DOES, then ..... GET BEHIND ME SATAN!
Here goes.... 1 John 2:5..But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. So far, by your own admissions you all do not keep His word, yet you claim to be IN HIM and HE IN YOU. So either God is lying or you are, and my calculated guess is you are ling, or do not know what you talk about. Me I am sinner, no argument there, but only because I am not IN HIM and He is not IN ME! I have some of His love, true, but did Christ come for me yet, NO! Am I born of God and cannot sin, NO! (1 John 3:9)
Do I have hope... OH YES! God leads before HE FILLS! Are we not lead by the Spirit before He FILLS us, and only then does he perfect the LOVE OF GOD?
If sinless perfection means God's love is perfected in a person, do any of you think God does not perfect His Love in people? And if that love is not sinless perfection, where would the LOVE OF GOD fail? It NEVER did and NEVER will.
You are bad teachers with bad doctrines. Just because you tried and failed, now you teach God CANNOT make a perfect man? I think you are going to have a hard time come explaination day! Oh just becasue I know no holy man, there is no holy man? Jesus was holy and perfect, And ALL God's sons are recreated in HIS image. Thank God for that. Unto A PERFECT MAN Eph 4 says. God says PERFECT man, you all say NO SUCH THING, so STRAWMEN go stand in the field and chase away the holy birds.
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Can we see this? The battle is who we compare ourselves to. If I can compare myself to someone else who does not live how I think they should live it makes me look so much better. But change the comparison and it changes ones outlook. Change who compare ourselves to and it's a different story. Is the comparison suppose to be looking at someone else or are we to compare ourselves to how Jesus lived? What gets left out for those who say they don't sin anymore is that they never compare themselves to a Holy,Righteous,Just,Perfect,totally spotless God who sees every thought,every motive of the heart who can not allow a single spot or blemish to come before Him. Even the smallest bend is sin (Missing the mark)
How can they understand why those of us who have "looked" into His requirements,and have been shown what is truly in our hearts,and how we really line up to those,can say we still sin. It's not always the so called big ugly sins that we are still seeing,but it's an understanding of just how much even the smallest of things are wrong.
How can they understand why those of us who have "looked" into His requirements,and have been shown what is truly in our hearts,and how we really line up to those,can say we still sin. It's not always the so called big ugly sins that we are still seeing,but it's an understanding of just how much even the smallest of things are wrong.
Man-centeredness is dangerous and detrimental to genuine spiritual growth. It always puffs up self and the flesh and gives us occasion to boast with the result that we get a small god that always need our help. God- centeredness reduces us to true and correct proportions and gives us a great God, a just God and a Savior, whose help we always find us dependent upon and no space of boasting. Let us serve this God in gratitude and joy over the marvelous work and wonder He has accomplished through His beloved Son. It is all undeserved pardon! Amen.
P
I do begin to understand (and have compassion for) anyone who has not been given spiritual understanding of Rom. 3:25.
In reality, the book is written to the Jews at Rome, some of whom were God's, and some not.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, [SUP]
22 [/SUP]even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; [SUP]
23 [/SUP]for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
[SUP]24 [/SUP]being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; [SUP]
25 [/SUP]whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;
[SUP]26 [/SUP]for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
The passage speaks of the Passover (not past sins), and the Jews would have known that immediately.
It's talking about the picture (shadow
) of the blood sprinkled on the mercy seat, and the forgiveness God granted because of the sacrifice.
"At the present time" means at the time of the writing, and the time, more to the point, of The Sacrifice, not the time one is redeemed.
But if you improperly view it as God forgiving only your past sins, how frightening would that be?
How very sure you would have to be that you be 'sinless'.
I s'pose you would need a shallow concept of sin in order to be in 'right standing' before the Lord.
Thank God we have that right standing, not based on anything we have done or will ever do, but
because of HIS righteousness, and because HE is just, and the justifier of many.
Ironically, the very next verse...
"Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith."
Reminds me of John 16:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; [SUP]
9 [/SUP]concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; [SUP]
10 [/SUP]and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; [SUP]
11 [/SUP]and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.
In reality, the book is written to the Jews at Rome, some of whom were God's, and some not.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, [SUP]
22 [/SUP]even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; [SUP]
23 [/SUP]for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
[SUP]24 [/SUP]being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; [SUP]
25 [/SUP]whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;
[SUP]26 [/SUP]for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
The passage speaks of the Passover (not past sins), and the Jews would have known that immediately.
It's talking about the picture (shadow
) of the blood sprinkled on the mercy seat, and the forgiveness God granted because of the sacrifice."At the present time" means at the time of the writing, and the time, more to the point, of The Sacrifice, not the time one is redeemed.
But if you improperly view it as God forgiving only your past sins, how frightening would that be?
How very sure you would have to be that you be 'sinless'.
I s'pose you would need a shallow concept of sin in order to be in 'right standing' before the Lord.
Thank God we have that right standing, not based on anything we have done or will ever do, but
because of HIS righteousness, and because HE is just, and the justifier of many.
Ironically, the very next verse...
"Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith."
Reminds me of John 16:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; [SUP]
9 [/SUP]concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; [SUP]
10 [/SUP]and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; [SUP]
11 [/SUP]and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.
Sarah, who does God use as the MOLD for ALL His children.... Jesus. ALL His children he recreates to HIS LIKENESS. That is why Jesus do not shame Himself to call them BRETHREN.
Abiding, the Children of the light is not fearful for the light, THEY LIVE IN IT, and in the LIGHT is NO DARKNESS that need exposè. It is already revealed as GOOD WORKS, HOLY LIFE. PERFECT MEN!
Triby... This is where you miss the pot completely.... Man centered is NOT GOD'S. All God's Children are GOD CENTERED. The centre of man is man, the centre of HOLY MAN id GOD's Holy Spirit. Do you see the difference? There is a difference in the two, and it is appauling in the one, and BOLDNESS in the other.
When the Spirit of God confess a man to be God's child, he has BOLDNESS before God. But if a man with a man's spirit confess to be God's child, you get what you get right here on CC. Sickening doctrines of SATAN! Men professing to be Christ-like but with serpent hearts. Stony hearts...
Here is the verses that completely destroy your faith that there is no one perfect....
Ezekiel 36:26 and 27. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
If any of you think a man with this heart that God gave him is not perfect, THINK AGAIN! If any of you think a man with God's Spirit in him is a man, you are again completely off the track and the WAY.... They are all HOLY MEN OF GOD!
Abiding, the Children of the light is not fearful for the light, THEY LIVE IN IT, and in the LIGHT is NO DARKNESS that need exposè. It is already revealed as GOOD WORKS, HOLY LIFE. PERFECT MEN!
Triby... This is where you miss the pot completely.... Man centered is NOT GOD'S. All God's Children are GOD CENTERED. The centre of man is man, the centre of HOLY MAN id GOD's Holy Spirit. Do you see the difference? There is a difference in the two, and it is appauling in the one, and BOLDNESS in the other.
When the Spirit of God confess a man to be God's child, he has BOLDNESS before God. But if a man with a man's spirit confess to be God's child, you get what you get right here on CC. Sickening doctrines of SATAN! Men professing to be Christ-like but with serpent hearts. Stony hearts...
Here is the verses that completely destroy your faith that there is no one perfect....
Ezekiel 36:26 and 27. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
If any of you think a man with this heart that God gave him is not perfect, THINK AGAIN! If any of you think a man with God's Spirit in him is a man, you are again completely off the track and the WAY.... They are all HOLY MEN OF GOD!
Perfection in the flesh as a straw man.
When one preaches that the sin must stop many will make the accusation, "are you perfect" or "do you sin" and what they do is they connect "mistakes" like I am not being careful and I elbow you in the head, or I lack wisdom and put my priorities wrong, or I misjudge someone or something, or many other things. People will connect "erring" with "willful immorality."
Jesus said be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect and the word he used is the same word Paul used when he described himself as perfect and the meaning of that words pertains to "moral perfection" not never making a mistake.
Absolute, never making a mistake, knowing everything, having God like wisdom perfection is a strawman that people use to cast an aspersion on moral perfection.
Paul spoke about the perfecting of the saints in Eph 4 which was in the context of how we grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ until we come into unity in the faith.
So before you call something of Satan you ought to read the context first Cobus.
PERFECT IN LOVE is true.
Perfect in every single dot and tiddle, never making a mistake is a strawman. There is a difference between falling short due to ignorance and not loving your neighbour.
When one preaches that the sin must stop many will make the accusation, "are you perfect" or "do you sin" and what they do is they connect "mistakes" like I am not being careful and I elbow you in the head, or I lack wisdom and put my priorities wrong, or I misjudge someone or something, or many other things. People will connect "erring" with "willful immorality."
Jesus said be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect and the word he used is the same word Paul used when he described himself as perfect and the meaning of that words pertains to "moral perfection" not never making a mistake.
Absolute, never making a mistake, knowing everything, having God like wisdom perfection is a strawman that people use to cast an aspersion on moral perfection.
Paul spoke about the perfecting of the saints in Eph 4 which was in the context of how we grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ until we come into unity in the faith.
So before you call something of Satan you ought to read the context first Cobus.
PERFECT IN LOVE is true.
Perfect in every single dot and tiddle, never making a mistake is a strawman. There is a difference between falling short due to ignorance and not loving your neighbour.
But if you improperly view it as God forgiving only your past sins, how frightening would that be?
How very sure you would have to be that you be 'sinless'.
The sins are blotted out at the times of refreshing. Not future uncommitted rebellion, PAST REBELLION because the one who has repented and been converted is NO LONGER IN REBELLION.
Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
If the convert is to turn back to their old life of sin then no sacrifice remains exactly as Heb 10:26 says. It is repentance for remission. Not remission carte blanche unconditional of anything you do. That is pure foolishness.
In the parable of the unforgiving servant was his future sin of unforgivness pre-forgiven? Well was it?
Which surely would mean that God swapped the old covenant for a much harsher one.
Under the old covenannt a persons sins could be forgiven by burnt offerings, but according to Skinski under the new covenant they can't be forgiven.
So by Christ dying on the cross, God made it far harder for anyone to attain Heaven, if not impossible
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
How does that square with:
For God so loved the world..............
Under the old covenannt a persons sins could be forgiven by burnt offerings, but according to Skinski under the new covenant they can't be forgiven.
So by Christ dying on the cross, God made it far harder for anyone to attain Heaven, if not impossible
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
How does that square with:
For God so loved the world..............
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But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. [SUP]22 [/SUP]This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, [SUP]23 [/SUP]for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, [SUP]24 [/SUP]and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. [SUP]25 [/SUP]God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,[SUP][i][/SUP] through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— [SUP]26 [/SUP]he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. [SUP]27 [/SUP]Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. [SUP]28 [/SUP]For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, [SUP]30 [/SUP]since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
Who's sins are specifically being spoken of here in verse 25:?
Did anyone enter Heaven before Christ died on the cross?
No one has ever gone into Heaven except the one who came from Heaven-the son of man
John3:13
For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, [SUP]19[/SUP]through whom[SUP][d][/SUP] also he went and preached to the spirits in prison
For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit
Who's sins are specifically being spoken of here in verse 25:?
Did anyone enter Heaven before Christ died on the cross?
No one has ever gone into Heaven except the one who came from Heaven-the son of man
John3:13
For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, [SUP]19[/SUP]through whom[SUP][d][/SUP] also he went and preached to the spirits in prison
For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit
I never said otherwise,but if we are already sinless then way does Paul and James write these to believers
Ephesians 4
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. [SUP]30 [/SUP]And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.
James 1
[SUP]19 [/SUP]My dear brothers and sisters, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, [SUP]20 [/SUP]because human anger does not produce the righteousness that God desires. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you.
Both are in the present tense not past tense and these are written to believers. In other words they were not perfect yet and still sinned. They do not say that those things were already gone,they were still dealing with them.
Ephesians 4
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. [SUP]30 [/SUP]And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.
James 1
[SUP]19 [/SUP]My dear brothers and sisters, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, [SUP]20 [/SUP]because human anger does not produce the righteousness that God desires. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you.
Both are in the present tense not past tense and these are written to believers. In other words they were not perfect yet and still sinned. They do not say that those things were already gone,they were still dealing with them.
It's a nonsense, this is what Paul wrote to people he addressed as :
To the church of God in Corinth
Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly(carnal)—mere infants in Christ. [SUP]2 [/SUP]I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. [SUP]3 [/SUP]You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere men? [SUP]4 [/SUP]For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere men?
To the church of God in Corinth
Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly(carnal)—mere infants in Christ. [SUP]2 [/SUP]I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. [SUP]3 [/SUP]You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere men? [SUP]4 [/SUP]For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere men?