(poll) Do We Choose Him or Does he choose us?

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Do We Choose Him or Does he choose us?

  • He chooses us by predestination

    Votes: 28 65.1%
  • He gives us the strength and desire, but the choice is up to us in the end

    Votes: 14 32.6%
  • It's completely up to us without his strength or given desires by him

    Votes: 1 2.3%

  • Total voters
    43

CharliRenee

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Nov 4, 2014
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I want to say again that while it would be such a beautiful outcome to find a man of God who wanted a woman of God, to be able to know and experience that kind of love on earth would be divine to say the least, oh how sweet and rewarding that must be, but I know regardless when it comes to Happily ever after, my only true soulmate is He...

"For your husband is your Maker, Whose name is the Lord of hosts; And your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel, Who is called the God of all the earth.
Isaiah 54:5 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/isa.54.5.NASB
 

CharliRenee

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Nov 4, 2014
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You tell me :D

I believe this is why all the debates exist. Because you can proof-text almost anything out of the bible.

For example: If I want to prove the faith-alone no repentance salvation, I can just point to "righteous Lot" and say, "See, Lot had no positive works we know of, and he was justified by faith in the OT" bam.
Then I can also prove repentance and works FOLLOWING salvation as proof of genuine saving faith by quoting the verse where Paul says "do works meet for repentance" in the book of Acts..

This is why debates exist. I really pray God would show me one day how to reconcile all this
Don't you think in both those scenarios it comes down to our sincere hearts that only He knows, that the conversations, of faith with out works is dead and works without faith is dead, that go on and on, my friend, all come down to are we sincerely believing in all ways?
 
Dec 9, 2011
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How did you solve this conundrum? I also struggle with this too.

I see arminianism and calvinism both can easily be proven from the scriptures. I see open theism and hard-determinism can both be clearly proven from the scriptures.
If you can prove this from scripture then you have proven that GOD who IS ALMIGHTY Is not fair.
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
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How did you solve this conundrum? I also struggle with this too.

I see arminianism and calvinism both can easily be proven from the scriptures. I see open theism and hard-determinism can both be clearly proven from the scriptures.
Often it is not a matter of one or the other being right, but both.
Even if they seem to be contradictory.
Like you said, all four sides have support.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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Hopefully someone with GODly discernment In the committee will be aware when someone Percieved In need of financial help really needs It.:)
Having served on the committee for a while they strive to provide what is needed to the person(s). Since they only provide the goods or payments to the providers for goods and services those in need are very grateful. Those trying to scam the church start with obscenities and leave angry.
 

Endoscopy

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Oct 13, 2017
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I lean the same way. Confusing isn't it. At times I want an exact answer. The early elders saw the problem when they created the creeds saying anything Biblical outside the creeds was to agree to disagree. Calvinism vs Arminianism is an example of this.
 

Endoscopy

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Oct 13, 2017
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You know this might seem right to you, but having been in mission work for many years I have a different take. I have meditated about this and come to the conclusion that people that come to you in need could very well take advantage of us if we don't check their story. But wait! That is how the government works. We are God's people and we should be more trusting. If someone take unfair advantage of our resources, it is God they defraud. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes. When someone needs help, they need it right then, and we needn't bother with verification. :cool:
It normally only takes a little looking at their situation to discern if they are for real or not. I have done this. The committee required 2 deacons to investigate and make a decision quickly. Normally just by talking to the person(s). It is easy when it is a family with kids. I worked doing this with making rent or mortgage payments, supplying food, giving a gas station a block of money for a person to use, etc. Always discussing with them the specifics of what their needs are. To me this was much easier than when as an elder my concerns were for their spiritual needs. Quite often their spiritual needs crossed over into physical needs. That ended up with elder and deacon team working with them.
 

GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
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I lean the same way. Confusing isn't it. At times I want an exact answer. The early elders saw the problem when they created the creeds saying anything Biblical outside the creeds was to agree to disagree. Calvinism vs Arminianism is an example of this.
I am sorry to see so many missing the glory of God, while they claim to love God, they don't know Him. (yet)
I think George Whitfield was right, we are all born 'arminian' and become calvinist by God's grace.
Going off the rails with just ONE bad idea......free will, a little leaven leavens the whole loaf.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
I am sorry to see so many missing the glory of God, while they claim to love God, they don't know Him. (yet)
I think George Whitfield was right, we are all born 'arminian' and become calvinist by God's grace.
Going off the rails with just ONE bad idea......free will, a little leaven leavens the whole loaf.
What some Renaissance Protestant taught is no concern of mine. You label me, you limit me. Some of us refuse to conform wholly to some fellow that broke away from the apostate Catholic Church and yet, kept many of her erroneous ways.

What the Protestants should have done is to start over from scratch. The devil has had his way with Christianity and most have no idea of the gospel that Jesus taught. They are now teaching a gospel about Jesus, instead of the gospel of Jesus. They grasp their salvation and condemn the rest of the world to eternal flames. They have no right to do that. Jesus is the hope of the whole world.


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CharliRenee

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Nov 4, 2014
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Wait... did John Calvin die on the cross? Is following Yeshua, Jesus, our Lord and Savior an Arminian thing? We were born beings with beautiful potential created by God with a purpose to become Children of His, all through His Son, all for His Glory.

I too struggle with finding harmony in the scriptures. I too see conflicting scriptures. I think the answer is found in Jesus alone, though, not in any man made doctrine. We need to adhere to the entirety of the scriptures and find, best we can, His balance and His order, His truth. Everything is about Him. It takes us going back to the drawing board over and over, which is Him, trusting He will reveal when He sees fit. Let's believe Him, in Him, not in a human person or persons who says this or that. Let's let our hearts burn as the Holy Spirit explains the scriptures to us, not when man does.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
Wait... did John Calvin die on the cross? Is following Yeshua, Jesus, our Lord and Savior an Arminian thing? We were born beings with beautiful potential created by God with a purpose to become Children of His, all through His Son, all for His Glory.

I too struggle with finding harmony in the scriptures. I too see conflicting scriptures. I think the answer is found in Jesus alone, though, not in any man made doctrine. We need to adhere to the entirety of the scriptures and find, best we can, His balance and His order, His truth. Everything is about Him. It takes us going back to the drawing board over and over, which is Him, trusting He will reveal when He sees fit. Let's believe Him, in Him, not in a human person or persons who says this or that. Let's let our hearts burn as the Holy Spirit explains the scriptures to us, not when man does.
Amen CharliRenee, the hardest part about learning what the Bible has to say is unlearning what we thought it says. Time and again the HS had to tell me to quit reading my traditions into His word. I had to mentally set aside everything I was taught about the word in order to open my mind to learn from God. I was aghast at how deceived the mainstream was. :eek:
 

GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
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What some Renaissance Protestant taught is no concern of mine. You label me, you limit me. Some of us refuse to conform wholly to some fellow that broke away from the apostate Catholic Church and yet, kept many of her erroneous ways.

What the Protestants should have done is to start over from scratch. The devil has had his way with Christianity and most have no idea of the gospel that Jesus taught. They are now teaching a gospel about Jesus, instead of the gospel of Jesus. They grasp their salvation and condemn the rest of the world to eternal flames. They have no right to do that. Jesus is the hope of the whole world.

QUOTE]

I mentioned no names. I let the Holy Spirit convict where He will.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
397
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What some Renaissance Protestant taught is no concern of mine. You label me, you limit me. Some of us refuse to conform wholly to some fellow that broke away from the apostate Catholic Church and yet, kept many of her erroneous ways.

What the Protestants should have done is to start over from scratch. The devil has had his way with Christianity and most have no idea of the gospel that Jesus taught. They are now teaching a gospel about Jesus, instead of the gospel of Jesus. They grasp their salvation and condemn the rest of the world to eternal flames. They have no right to do that. Jesus is the hope of the whole world.


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The large protestant denominations are secular. Only the sub denominations preach the gospel message. Gary North wrote a book "Crossed Fingers" documenting the secular takeover of Presbyterian USA in 1932. He stated the rest of the 7 major protestant denominations were the same. Almost half of the people in the US go to church. Only a splinter of them hear the gospel message. That means only a splinter of the population is Christian. You are in error about what they teach. It's mostly homilies without reference to Jesus.
 

GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
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There is no conflict of scripture when you have the right mind set......That God is absolutely sovereign over His creation and that His plan for His creation will not be thwarted by His creation.
Correct reading, in context........hermenutic method which is asking who , what, when, where and why.......rightly dividing the word (at the cross) Line upon line, percept upon precept, a little here a little there. Books of the bible in correct place in history.

God's electing grace is not for all ears. That He chose us BEFORE the foundation of the world means just that. Before we were formed, before we had thought. Mind boggling and very humbling ......who, in their right mind, would consider themselves worthy of salvation?
It is a gift from God, if you so much as say YOU did the work of choosing, then the gift is not a gift but wages earned for performing an action. That is cause and effect, not grace. Grace is that which is given by God to His people who have NO merit.

I see confusion in people who have never learned HOW to study a bible if they want to mature in the faith.
"Study to be approved as a workman who is ABLE to handle ACCURATELY the word of truth. 2 Tim 2:15
 

GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
1,108
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The large protestant denominations are secular. Only the sub denominations preach the gospel message. Gary North wrote a book "Crossed Fingers" documenting the secular takeover of Presbyterian USA in 1932. He stated the rest of the 7 major protestant denominations were the same. Almost half of the people in the US go to church. Only a splinter of them hear the gospel message. That means only a splinter of the population is Christian. You are in error about what they teach. It's mostly homilies without reference to Jesus.
Very true and is the reason for so many home churches springing up.
Most churches let anyone in the door with welcome, God's people are more discerning and will not participate in worship with those they are not in fellowship with. Bible says that to be in felloship we must be of ONE MIND, THE MIND OF CHRIST, WITH NO DIVISIONS AMONG US.