Praying in Tongues

[Noose]

No such thing, why? because you say so. Hey, you do know there have a thing called a phone and TV right? If you deny historical unrefuted truth concerning the church and its history; it is pointless to talk with you. Next, you will tell us the Bile was written in KJV only originally.

Why?!!

Matt 23:8 But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9And do not call anyone on earth your father, foryou have one Father, who is in heaven. 10Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Christ.

Luke 17:20When asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The kingdom of God will not come with observable signs. 21Nor will people say, ‘Look, here it is,’ or ‘There it is.’ For you see, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

It doesn't matter what you saw or heard or read. No observable signs and if there was observable signs, it is not the kingdom of God.

 

[obedienttogod]

Non of the churchfathers and founders of the reformation taught what we find since the pentecostal movement started first in Topeka and then in Azusastreet. Otherwise we would find this in f.e. Calvinism and Protestant church of Luther.
No revival is a proof that praying in tongues for today church as it is written in 1Cor.14 for the church in Corinth.
And thats the cruix. If you would be right, then speaking in tongues would be normal for every bornagain christian. And we had no need to discuss for.
Movements which supporting false teachings are in my eyes not from God.
And if they would speak in tongues the whole day and would perrform many miracles.
What you think through what many christians would be deceived.? And the bible talks about, that in the last time many will be deceived because of signs and miracles.
Today, the only big movements which are proclaiming signs and wonders are the pentecostal and the charismatic movements.

Although you and I have kind of beat this subject to death, can you show me a single verse (not 1 Corinthians 13:8 - that I did not prove with the Greek) that the specific Gift of the Holy Spirit known as Tongues actually ended in the Bible (outside Revelation's the end part)?

Because there are no actual verses that make this claim.

And if you look at every denomination from Methodist, Baptist, Presbyterian, Pentecostal, Lutheran, 7th Day, and the list goes on...not a single one is like the other in (worship - songs - preaching - teaching - evangelizing - baptizing - and so forth). With such diversity from one denomination to the other, it is clear that all of them are correct, or all of them are doing things not exactly specific to the Bible.

 

[Noose]

two things here

1. people with pure hearts before God make that error every day and God is well able to lead them out of error without condemnation. His mercies are new every morning

2. blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is listed as the unforgivable sin. that would be attributing the work of God to the devil

kapeesh?

I said, attributing thing to God that are not God's is equally blaspheming.
Example:

Matt 7:
21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’
23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’

These people are not Muslims/Hindus/Atheists/Tribal Jews/ Satanists- who are they?
They seem to be very convinced that they did all those miracles by the power of God- a fatal error it seems; they were never guided out of it.

 

[Noose]

huh

well when you speak in tongues you get to really really really understand what it is to know the Lord and those who are His and the oneness of spirit through His Spirit

too bad you are missing out

Well, i used to, not anymore. I can't speak meaningless words and attribute to God. It is childish and it has nothing to do with God.
My eyes are actually opened and i'm doing fine now.

 

[Noose]

I have often wondered if that went both ways. But this indicates not so much -

Phil !: 15It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.

Well, here's a real judgement day scenario.

Matt 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’
23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’

These people are not Muslims/ Tribal Jews/Hindus/Satanists/Atheists- who are they?
They seem to be very convinced that the miracles were from God.

 

[Noose]

Jon 1:6　 So the shipmaster came to him and said unto him, What meanest thou, O sleeper? arise, call upon thy God, if so be that he will have compassion upon us that we not perish.

That's not the one that I would of chosen. It's the one that God gave me.

I don't understand what you are up to plus the verse might be wrong or misquoted.

 

[Noose]

Exactly why everyone born again has the Spirit of Christ! But, then Pentecost came. The power of the Spirit of God; the same Spirit that rose Jesus from death; the same Spirit by which He moved in the giftings too. Or didn't you realize that He did?

I do but in the knew covenant, a neighbor is not supposed to tell a neighbor 'know the Lord' for they shall all know the Lord.

 

[garee]

Ignorun gave a thumbs down to someone being Spiritually stopped from cutting herself and possibly dying? Wow. Pretty much says everything one needs to know as to why he is so out to lunch on this.

Experience is not the validator of the unseen spiritual things. We do not wrestle against flesh and blood or do we confirm things unseen by that seen .We walk by faith the unseen, as it is written . We do wrestle against the unseen things as did Christ in Mathew 4 who over and over replied "as it is written" again and again.(walk by faith) If experience was the validator of spiritual truth then the Son of man failed. And Colossians 2:18 would apply. Hoping following after a experience saved a person from dying . I would think world be a thing of mercy in a hope that a person would pray to never experience the workings of the lying signs and wonders. Again in a hope it world turn them s towards God so that they could repent of the things they "did not see: by faith as it is written

Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which "he hath not seen", vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, Colossian 2:18

 

[stonesoffire]

Encyclopedia of Pentecost history of tongues 150AD- 1901AD

• "Origins of Pentecostalism. Speaking in tongues. Glossolalia, the phenomenon of speaking in tongues, in the apostolic church is known primarily from the writings of St. Luke and St. Paul. After an initial outburst of speaking in tongues, in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost, the phenomenon appeared later at Caesarea, Ephesus, and Corinth, a city in which prophets, healers, and speakers in tongues were very active. Other post-apostolic instances of glossolalia have been recorded throughout the history of the Christian church: among the Montanists (heretical followers of the 2nd-century Phrygian prophet Montanus), [comment: note the big jump in time between montanus 150 AD and Anabaptists 1521 AD] among radical Anabaptists (extreme left-wing Protestants in 16th-century Germany), and among the Camisards (a radical Protestant peasant group from southern France) and Jansenists (a Catholic reform movement) in 17th and 18th century France. The gift of tongues was also prolific among the Shakers, a celibate communal religious sect in the mid-18th century United States. During the 19th century, an outburst of glossolalia and some instances of healing occurred, notably in the Scottish preacher Edward Irving's church in London's Regent Square, among the Mormons, [comment: note that Mormons are also listed!] and among various groups of Holiness people in the mountains of Tennessee and North Carolina." (Pentecostal Churches, Encyclopedia Britannica, 1979, vol 14, p31)

 

[stonesoffire]

I do but in the knew covenant, a neighbor is not supposed to tell a neighbor 'know the Lord' for they shall all know the Lord.

Noose

The new covenant is the will of inheritance. Everything that Jesus is and had...He left to His body. It's true that all of His will know Him for the army of God is the only army on earth where every soldier gets individual orders from the "Head". Yet for all this...we walk together in unity. Or we will once we get unity of the knowledge of Him such as Paul teaches down pat.

 

[stonesoffire]

Noose

The new covenant is the will of inheritance. Everything that Jesus is and had...He left to His body. It's true that all of His will know Him for the army of God is the only army on earth where every soldier gets individual orders from the "Head". Yet for all this...we walk together in unity. Or we will once we get unity of the knowledge of Him such as Paul teaches down pat.

I don't understand what you are up to plus the verse might be wrong or misquoted.

Did you not say that that there are no revivals nor awakenings? I would of posted scripture that said said to wake up....but the one I posted is the one I received.

 

[obedienttogod]

Encyclopedia of Pentecost history of tongues 150AD- 1901AD

• "Origins of Pentecostalism. Speaking in tongues. Glossolalia, the phenomenon of speaking in tongues, in the apostolic church is known primarily from the writings of St. Luke and St. Paul. After an initial outburst of speaking in tongues, in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost, the phenomenon appeared later at Caesarea, Ephesus, and Corinth, a city in which prophets, healers, and speakers in tongues were very active. Other post-apostolic instances of glossolalia have been recorded throughout the history of the Christian church: among the Montanists (heretical followers of the 2nd-century Phrygian prophet Montanus), [comment: note the big jump in time between montanus 150 AD and Anabaptists 1521 AD] among radical Anabaptists (extreme left-wing Protestants in 16th-century Germany), and among the Camisards (a radical Protestant peasant group from southern France) and Jansenists (a Catholic reform movement) in 17th and 18th century France. The gift of tongues was also prolific among the Shakers, a celibate communal religious sect in the mid-18th century United States. During the 19th century, an outburst of glossolalia and some instances of healing occurred, notably in the Scottish preacher Edward Irving's church in London's Regent Square, among the Mormons, [comment: note that Mormons are also listed!] and among various groups of Holiness people in the mountains of Tennessee and North Carolina." (Pentecostal Churches, Encyclopedia Britannica, 1979, vol 14, p31)

In my discussion with wolfwint, I mentioned Tongues had been kept alive in various groups from the 1st century until now. But your post ^ clearly proves my stance and thank you for digging this up!!

 

[Dino246]

Knowledge received while privately praying in tongues stopped an acquaintance from slicing her wrists and led her to a place of ministry - don't you DARE assume that all uses are without value!

Did you mean that an acquaintance was praying in tongues and was, herself, stopped from slicing her wrists? Or someone else was praying in tongues and stopped the acquaintance from slicing her wrists?

 

[Dino246]

The law pertaining to sign that men use to marvel or wonder rather than walking buy faith the unseen eternal it applies wherever signs are made available. In the end of the matter revealing men seek after the things seen rather that believing God through the scriptures, as prophecy... confirming unbelief (no faith) It was used with Moses and the Exodus as well as any time the Jews demanded a sign before they would believe (commit faith)

You made an assertion by taking one statement COMPLETELY out of its context and applying it as a general principle to other unrelated contexts. That is poor hermeneutics on your part. I corrected you. You apparently ignored the correction because you didn't follow the train of thought. This isn't the first time this has happened.

 

[Dino246]

praying in tongues other langues other than Hebrew alone is prophecy .

All of the prayers of David are inspired by God as prophecy as tongue in his own language . The idea of trying to make tongues sounds that have no authority by which one could hear the gospel is not a biblical teaching. Rather than confirming prophecy they turn it into a wonderment as sign against them who refuse to believe the word of God.

This is the same fantasy you expounded at length in the other thread. It does not line up with Scripture, wherein tongues and prophecy are CLEARLY distinguished.

I understand that you think all of Scripture is prophecy, but that view only causes confusion for you.

 

[wolfwint]

Although you and I have kind of beat this subject to death, can you show me a single verse (not 1 Corinthians 13:8 - that I did not prove with the Greek) that the specific Gift of the Holy Spirit known as Tongues actually ended in the Bible (outside Revelation's the end part)?

Because there are no actual verses that make this claim.

And if you look at every denomination from Methodist, Baptist, Presbyterian, Pentecostal, Lutheran, 7th Day, and the list goes on...not a single one is like the other in (worship - songs - preaching - teaching - evangelizing - baptizing - and so forth). With such diversity from one denomination to the other, it is clear that all of them are correct, or all of them are doing things not exactly specific to the Bible.

Yes, that is true, no single denomination is 100% right in their doctrine. But non teaching seperates the believers( i do not mean the nominall christians) like the teachings from the pentecostal and charismatic movements regarding the Holy Spirit.
And the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Would they teach that speaking in tongues is to receive like all the other gifts we found, indepent from an special expierience with the Holy Spirit, ore indepent wether a believer is filled with the Holy Spirit ore not, maby I had not much a problem with it.
But after the apostolic time (where the apostles lived) we dont find this teaching till (i repeat again) 1900.
In 1900 no baptist, mennonite, calvinist, reformatic church,protestant taught this.
Today you can find it in nearly all denominations because of the charismatic movements.
For me no proof that it is right. Only a proof for me that the world is near to the end and before the time of the antichrist.
Pentecostals as well charismatics have no problem to follow the pope and his doctrine of the RCC.
For me an indication that they dont follow the truth. So then the question is which Spirit they follow.?

I know I dont will change your mind.
But till today i found nobody here on CC who could take my thoughts away, and could show me that i am wrong.

 

[Dino246]

I said, attributing thing to God that are not God's is equally blaspheming.
Example:

Matt 7:
21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’
23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’

While that sounds sensible on the surface, it fails because Scripture doesn't call it blasphemy.

 

[wolfwint]

In my discussion with wolfwint, I mentioned Tongues had been kept alive in various groups from the 1st century until now. But your post ^ clearly proves my stance and thank you for digging this up!!

Encyclopedia of Pentecost history of tongues 150AD- 1901AD

• "Origins of Pentecostalism. Speaking in tongues. Glossolalia, the phenomenon of speaking in tongues, in the apostolic church is known primarily from the writings of St. Luke and St. Paul. After an initial outburst of speaking in tongues, in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost, the phenomenon appeared later at Caesarea, Ephesus, and Corinth, a city in which prophets, healers, and speakers in tongues were very active. Other post-apostolic instances of glossolalia have been recorded throughout the history of the Christian church: among the Montanists (heretical followers of the 2nd-century Phrygian prophet Montanus), [comment: note the big jump in time between montanus 150 AD and Anabaptists 1521 AD] among radical Anabaptists (extreme left-wing Protestants in 16th-century Germany), and among the Camisards (a radical Protestant peasant group from southern France) and Jansenists (a Catholic reform movement) in 17th and 18th century France. The gift of tongues was also prolific among the Shakers, a celibate communal religious sect in the mid-18th century United States. During the 19th century, an outburst of glossolalia and some instances of healing occurred, notably in the Scottish preacher Edward Irving's church in London's Regent Square, among the Mormons, [comment: note that Mormons are also listed!] and among various groups of Holiness people in the mountains of Tennessee and North Carolina." (Pentecostal Churches, Encyclopedia Britannica, 1979, vol 14, p31)

Yes, a good proof that we find speaking in tongues mainly among extreme and heretic groups and sects.
But not in the live of normal believers.

 

[Dino246]

Experience is not the validator of the unseen spiritual things.

Scripture disagrees with you.

Acts 10:44-47 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.
Then Peter said, “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”

The new converts were speaking in tongues and praising God. That "experience" was observed by Peter and referenced as evidence that they had received the Holy Spirit.

 

[BillG]

That I not what I said and you know better.....my focus is on the MUMBO JUMBO passed off as tongues and the fleshly garbage passed off as spiritual such as my cited case concerning Benny Hinn

Hi Bro,

Hope you don't mind me asking.
Even if you do I'm gonna ask anyway

What's the MUMBO JUMBO you talk about?