Praying in Tongues

[TMS]

The Spirit of God caused the people of the Earth just after the flood to speak in different languages to cause them to spread out. Caused confusion for a purpose. The Spirit caused the people at Pentecost to Speak in tongues to cause people to understand the gospel. Gods Spirit had a purpose.
Act 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

When we Speak to God in prayer, there is no advantage in us speaking an unknown language, because the Spirit can translate every language.
Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
We can't utter the words we need to, thank God the Holy Spirit maketh intercession. We are told that the Devil can appear as an Angel of light so be careful, test the Spirits it may be the Devil causing you to say something bad.

Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

 

[garee]

The Spirit of God caused the people of the Earth just after the flood to speak in different languages to cause them to spread out. Caused confusion for a purpose. The Spirit caused the people at Pentecost to Speak in tongues to cause people to understand the gospel. Gods Spirit had a purpose.
Act 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

When we Speak to God in prayer, there is no advantage in us speaking an unknown language, because the Spirit can translate every language.
Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
We can't utter the words we need to, thank God the Holy Spirit maketh intercession. We are told that the Devil can appear as an Angel of light so be careful, test the Spirits it may be the Devil causing you to say something bad.

Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

I would offer God does not hear us if we speak into the air in vain repetitions ( words not easy to be understood,without meaning)

So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.1 Cor.14:9

Groans are not words but unheard crying out, waiting for the change, challenging our patience we have in Christ as the fruit of His Spirit self control ..

The groaning are a work of our patience we have as the first fruits of His love. Love is patient long suffering it can then be kind that second aspect of His love working in us.. the whole creation groans in expectation of the new incorruptible order .

Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

The whole creation includes every green thing, trees, grass etc.

 

[RickyZ]

Prophecy, tongues, healing, all will cease come the Kingdom, until then there are many tongues in this age and teh gift of tongues yet is because we are yet in this age…………..

Nowhere does it mention the gifts of teh Holy Spirit will cease, that reference is only to the temporal need for these gifts if you are able to receive this.

Exactly. Healing will cease when Christ returns and people are no longer getting sick!

 

[Dino246]

I would offer God does not hear us if we speak into the air in vain repetitions ( words not easy to be understood,without meaning)

So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.1 Cor.14:9

Once again you're pasting together unrelated verses, trying to make sense with them, and failing.

Matthew 6:7 states, "But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking."

It says nothing and implies nothing about the repetitions being "not easily understood", and that is nowhere near a standard meaning of "vain repetitions".

Try not to butcher the meaning of Scripture so badly.

 

[garee]

Once again you're pasting together unrelated verses, trying to make sense with them, and failing.

Matthew 6:7 states, "But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking."

It says nothing and implies nothing about the repetitions being "not easily understood", and that is nowhere near a standard meaning of "vain repetitions".

Try not to butcher the meaning of Scripture so badly.

Its not the repetitions that make them vain or empty . Vain repetitions are those that offer no understanding. Just like chanting . or repeating false prophecy .No matter how many time they are offered they remain vain or empty.

1 Corinthians 14 King James Version (KJV)For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

 

[Dino246]

Its not the repetitions that make them vain or empty . Vain repetitions are those that offer no understanding. Just like chanting . or repeating false prophecy .No matter how many time they are offered they remain vain or empty.

1 Corinthians 14 King James Version (KJV)For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

You’re mixing things up still. You cannot make a logically sound argument this way.

Vain means either without effect or from the wrong motive. In this case the context strongly suggests the former meaning. It simply doesn’t mean ‘without meaning’ or ‘that offers no understanding’.

 

[Dino246]

Yes distinct prophecy God's word is district from those he sends with it. The same with prophecy tongues.

You mixed this up as well.

I said the ROLE of an apostle is distinct from the ROLE of a prophet. You conflate them, contrary to Scripture.

And once again, tongues is not prophecy.

 

[notuptome]

Asserting that Paul's words were hyperbole, without providing any evidence beyond "just look at the context" is without merit. I've looked at the context, and I don't agree with you. While there is no record in Scripture of Jesus speaking in tongues, your argument is a fallacy - an argument from silence. There is record of the disciples and some new converts speaking in tongues; that is sufficient.


That is a fallacious character assassination and has absolutely no merit. Or, more succinctly, that's c**p.


Perhaps you should end with "For the cause of cessationism" instead.

The whole concept of praying in tongues is fallacy. It is an assertion wholly contrived by man and not found in scripture.

It is not fallacious character assassination to expose that which is not found in scripture as succinctly emptiness of truth.

Those who revolt against the truth of Gods word expose themselves as those who do not love truth having left their first love.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Dino246]

The whole concept of praying in tongues is fallacy. It is an assertion wholly contrived by man and not found in scripture.

Firstly, you don't seem to understand what a fallacy is. Secondly, praying in tongues is clearly mentioned in Scripture:

1 Corinthians 14:13-15 For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.

It is not fallacious character assassination to expose that which is not found in scripture as succinctly emptiness of truth.

Here is what you wrote in post #46: "At the end of the day one might determine that those who claim to pray in tongues simply do not know how to pray." That's not exposing "that which is not found in Scripture". It is directly attacking or insulting those who see things differently than you.

Those who revolt against the truth of Gods word expose themselves as those who do not love truth having left their first love.

You had better not revolt against Scripture then.

 

[garee]

You mixed this up as well.

I said the ROLE of an apostle is distinct from the ROLE of a prophet. You conflate them, contrary to Scripture.

And once again, tongues is not prophecy.

Once again tongues is prophecy spoken of in all the languages of the world and no longer Hebrew alone as a sign against those who will not believe prophecy even in respect to their own tongue .

The word apostle simply means "sent one" with no other meaning added .Apostles are sent with prophecy . Abel was sent with prophecy .His brother Cain that saw no value in the unseen things of God killed him as in out of sight out of mind called walking by sight. Moses is consider a apostle as one sent with prophecy. You can be consider a apostle when you offer the gospel.

 

[Dino246]

Once again tongues is prophecy spoken of in all the languages of the world and no longer Hebrew alone as a sign against those who will not believe prophecy even in respect to their own tongue .

The word apostle simply means "sent one" with no other meaning added .Apostles are sent with prophecy . Abel was sent with prophecy .His brother Cain that saw no value in the unseen things of God killed him as in out of sight out of mind called walking by sight. Moses is consider a apostle as one sent with prophecy. You can be consider a apostle when you offer the gospel.

Kindly back up your conflations with Scripture that clearly supports them.

 

[garee]

Kindly back up your conflations with Scripture that clearly supports them.

Study the word and give your inflated idea of what the word means mixed with another.
And why 12 a remnant of all listed (27) Where they set apart for a certain reason?

I have given those before . Its one of those words that was used in Catholisicim who inflated it to mean "sent as miraculous powers" needed to develop their veneration chain of command called "apostolic succession' Therefore as a law of their father a oral tradition of men, making the word of God without effect. .

It still influences even some Protestants sects today . Some define it to mean ones who saw the Lord. Not sure why the those translators left the Greek word "apostle" and not "messenger as sent ones" the English translation?

Its simply like all words a matter of defining the word when they were spoken . ..Apostle a Greek word, sent messenger, one sent on a mission, an apostle. It can be used in sending a person to the grocery store with a list of things from the sender the person who authorized the needs . Like when my wife sends me on a mission..

Malachi 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.

Mark 1:2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

The Hebrews used the word malak (sent messenger) used in the same way many times in the Old testament .

Again Abel was a malak (Hebrew) or apostle (Greek) sent with a message from God called prophecy. His brother Cain killed the one sent (apostle) just as the unbelieving Jew killed the apostle, Jesus. We should be careful when entertaining strangers in that way. God could be sending a apostle with His gospel.

I would be more interested in why he set aside the 12 apostles, a remnant of the whole rather than conflating the word to mean super saint as if they were any different then the other apostles and God was served by human hands.

 

[Dino246]

Study the word and give your inflated idea of what the word means mixed with another.

The word is "conflated", not "inflated". Perhaps you're trying to make a play on words. Anyway, here is the Merriam-Webster dictionary definition:

conflate
transitive verb
1a: to bring together : fuse
b: confuse
2: to combine (things, such as two readings of a text) into a composite whole
The editor conflated the two texts.
… a city of conflated races and cultures (Source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conflate)

You continually conflate tongues with prophecy (meanings 1a and 1b) and now you are conflating apostles with prophets (meaning 1a).

And why 12 a remnant of all listed (27) Where they set apart for a certain reason?

Look at Revelation 21:14; your answer is there.

I have given those before .

Interesting that I haven't seen them. Perhaps you could provide a link?

Its one of those words that was used in Catholisicim who inflated it to mean "sent as miraculous powers" needed to develop their veneration chain of command called "apostolic succession' Therefore as a law of their father a oral tradition of men, making the word of God without effect. .

It still influences even some Protestants sects today . Some define it to mean ones who saw the Lord. Not sure why the those translators left the Greek word "apostle" and not "messenger as sent ones" the English translation?

Its etymology is not really relevant. Even if we replace every instance of "apostle" with "sent one", the role is still distinct from that of a prophet. Paul used the words separately. He didn't call Agabus an apostle who brought prophecy.

Its simply like all words a matter of defining the word when they were spoken . ..Apostle a Greek word, sent messenger, one sent on a mission, an apostle. It can be used in sending a person to the grocery store with a list of things from the sender the person who authorized the needs . Like when my wife sends me on a mission..

Malachi 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.

Mark 1:2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

The Hebrews used the word malak (sent messenger) used in the same way many times in the Old testament .

Again Abel was a malak (Hebrew) or apostle (Greek) sent with a message from God called prophecy. His brother Cain killed the one sent (apostle) just as the unbelieving Jew killed the apostle, Jesus. We should be careful when entertaining strangers in that way. God could be sending a apostle with His gospel.

If Jesus uses the word to mean something particular, and Paul is using the word in a parallel context, the word means what it means to Jesus. The semantic range of the word become irrelevant at that point.

I would be more interested in why he set aside the 12 apostles, a remnant of the whole rather than conflating the word to mean super saint as if they were any different then the other apostles and God was served by human hands.

Again, see Revelation 21:14.

 

[garee]

You continually conflate tongues with prophecy (meanings 1a and 1b) and now you are conflating apostles with prophets (meaning 1a).

Why do you call separate that which God calls one?

Tongues are prophecy spoken in other languages other than Hebrew alone. The unbelieving "faithless Jew" would have nothing to do with prophecy , even in the own Hebrew tongue . Jerimiah 44 they mocked God and said rather we will do whatsoever our own mouth declares as oral traditions of men , When the fulfilment of Isaiah 28 God mocking the unbelieving Jew came in Acts 2 they heard the prophecy in Hebrew and called those who did hear prophecy in their own tongues, drunks as a sign against those who refuse to hear prophecy according to the "law of signs".

What do you think the sign confirmed ?Those who believe prophecy or those who refused to hear prophecy? Two choices . Which master?

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. 1 Corinthians 14:21-22

And what were the sent ones apostles sent with if not the word of God prophecy?

He didn't call Agabus an apostle who brought prophecy. He just sent him with it . Just as he sent Abel .

 

[Dino246]

Why do you call separate that which God calls one?

God doesn't call them one. He distinguishes them clearly in 1 Corinthians and in Ephesians.

Tongues are prophecy spoken in other languages other than Hebrew alone.

We disagree on that. There isn't a single reference in Scripture to support your assertion that "tongues are prophecy".

What do you think the sign confirmed ?Those who believe prophecy or those who refused to hear prophecy? Two choices . Which master?

You're ignoring relevant Scripture and mixing up references again, making your argument ridiculous. You're hung up on the reference from Isaiah.

And what were the sent ones apostles sent with if not the word of God prophecy?

You believe that every word of Scripture is prophecy; I don't. You're arguing from your position and not making any attempt to understand the term from my position. Scripture doesn't support your position.

He didn't call Agabus an apostle who brought prophecy. He just sent him with it . Just as he sent Abel .

Scripture doesn't say that God "sent" Agabus... anywhere. It says that Agabus was a prophet, that he "came", and that he prophesied.

Acts 11:27-28 During this time some prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. One of them, named Agabus, stood up and through the Spirit predicted that a severe famine would spread over the entire Roman world. (This happened during the reign of Claudius.)

Acts 21:8-11 Leaving the next day, we reached Caesarea and stayed at the house of Philip the evangelist, one of the Seven. He had four unmarried daughters who prophesied. After we had been there a number of days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. Coming over to us, he took Paul’s belt, tied his own hands and feet with it and said, “The Holy Spirit says, ‘In this way the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem will bind the owner of this belt and will hand him over to the Gentiles.’”

Nowhere is Agabus called an apostle. Twice he is called a prophet. Nowhere are Philip's daughters called apostles, yet they prophesied.

In 1 Corinthians 12:28-29 and Ephesians 4, "apostle" is a specific gifting and/or role. Your position is simply inconsistent with Scripture.

 

[notuptome]

Firstly, you don't seem to understand what a fallacy is. Secondly, praying in tongues is clearly mentioned in Scripture:

1 Corinthians 14:13-15 For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.

That is not an admonition to endeavor to pray in tongues. It is an admonition to pray with understanding. Man's spirit is strong but not always guided by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit always works within what is written in the word of God.

Here is what you wrote in post #46: "At the end of the day one might determine that those who claim to pray in tongues simply do not know how to pray." That's not exposing "that which is not found in Scripture". It is directly attacking or insulting those who see things differently than you.

Jesus gave an example of how to pray when the disciples asked it of Him. One who deems it appropriate to pray without knowledge clearly does not follow scriptural example.

You had better not revolt against Scripture then.

Nor should anyone be encouraged to do such a thing against Christ Who is the Word incarnate.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[bygrace]

The whole concept of praying in tongues is fallacy. It is an assertion wholly contrived by man and not found in scripture.

It is not fallacious character assassination to expose that which is not found in scripture as succinctly emptiness of truth.

Those who revolt against the truth of Gods word expose themselves as those who do not love truth having left their first love.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

really? You say that while you read 1cor chapter 12 to 14 or did you just rip them out of your bible? Everything you have said above does not even have one scriptural reference to support what is nothing more than an attack on people you disagree with. You shameful prideful man. You speak as if the Lord HIMself only gave you the bible and the Holy Spirit. I got a question for you.

Have you ever in your life been corrected in the word of God ever? I think you should be banned too. people here have to be attacked by you. You are not even an authority here just a troll like personality. Shame on you.

 

[notuptome]

really? You say that while you read 1cor chapter 12 to 14 or did you just rip them out of your bible? Everything you have said above does not even have one scriptural reference to support what is nothing more than an attack on people you disagree with. You shameful prideful man. You speak as if the Lord HIMself only gave you the bible and the Holy Spirit. I got a question for you.

Have you ever in your life been corrected in the word of God ever? I think you should be banned too. people here have to be attacked by you. You are not even an authority here just a troll like personality. Shame on you.

You simply read 1 Cor 12-14 with a bias. You read into the scripture not out of the scripture. You create a false doctrine and attack anyone who would dare to suggest that you are wrong.

Those who were outwardly religious hated the Lord Jesus. How much do you love Jesus?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[88]

The objective of this thread when I started it was only to encourage people to pray in Tongues. This encouragement comes from 40 years of seeking God. Whether you groan in the Spirit, pray in your native tongue, or pray in Tongues they all have purpose. This thread was not meant to cause division. If you don't pray in Tongues that's your business. We are not to forbid tongues or promote it in an unbalanced way. Again, I encourage those who speak in Tongues to activate this gift afresh. GRACE & PEACE

 

[dcontroversal]

+++Rediscover praying in Tongues if you have lapsed. Even a few minutes a day will help open your spirit, increase revelation in the Word, and strengthen you...

God understands my English just fine......end of story!