Praying in Tongues
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It means to yield, open up, embrace, stir up the gift of the Holy Spirit indwelling us and do not resist the Holy Spirit.
Acts 7:51
“You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!“
“Heavenly Father, in the Name of Jesus/Yeshua, we ask for the Holy Spirit to flow freely in us and to help us not resist or quench the Holy Spirit. Amen.”
Acts 7:51
“You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!“
“Heavenly Father, in the Name of Jesus/Yeshua, we ask for the Holy Spirit to flow freely in us and to help us not resist or quench the Holy Spirit. Amen.”
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Baptised via Holy Spirit vs Spiritual Gifts
Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
(NOTE: John the baptist made clear that Christ would baptise with the Holy Spirit)
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(NOTE: Translators capitalized Spirit to identify when referring the Holy Spirit. Only Christ can baptise with/in the Holy Spirit. Salvation happens at the moment Christ baptizes us with the indewlling Holy Spirit)
Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision """made without hands""", in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
(NOTE: The baptism of the Holy Spirit is a SPIRITUAL circumcison/covenant done without hands)
There are different spiritual gifts given to different people beyond salvation
1 Corinthians 12:
1 """"Now concerning spiritual gifts""""", brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
(NOTE: Spiritual gifts beyond salvation)
4 """""Now there are diversities of gifts"""", """"but the same Spirit"""".
(NOTE: Different gifts, all given by Gods Holy Spirit)
5 And there are differences of administrations (forms of stewardship), but the same Lord.
(NOTE: Eph 4:11-12 prophets, evangelist, pastors For the perfecting of the saints & works in ministry)
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
(NOTE: Spiritual gifts are for the profit of the Church)
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
(NOTE: Two different gifts mentioned here)
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
(NOTE: Two more different gifts mentioned here)
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
(NOTE: Five more mentioned here. Note: The gifts of: divers kinds of tongues & the interpretation of tongues)
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
(NOTE: All these different gifts are by God the Holy Spirit)
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
(NOTE: Our bodies have many parts. Likewise the Spirit gives many gifts)
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(NOTE: Here states only one Baptism into one body. This happens to every believer at conversion. Then we see 9 additional gifts of the spirit mentioned in vs 8-10. A few more in Eph 4:11-12)
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
(NOTE: Here we see Apostles, helps & governments added to those mentioned earlier)
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
(NOTE: After salvation: Different people are given different spiritual gifts as the Spirit leads)
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
(NOTE: Everyone doesn't get the same gifts)
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
(NOTE: Paul gives an order of importance in vs 28 & tells us to desire & pray for the best ones.)
Here are additional sciptures on the subject:
1 Cor 14:
1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
(NOTE: Desire to have & display all spiritual gifts. Seek a loving spirit 1st & prophesy 2nd)
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
(NOTE: The gift of tongues only edifies the one praying)
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
(NOTE: Prophesy edifies the whole body that hears it)
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
(NOTE: The gift of tongues only edifies the one praying. Prophesy is given to and edifies the whole Church)
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
(NOTE: Pauls is prayerful all will receive the gift of tongues. But, teaches prophesy is better because is edifies all)
6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
(NOTE: Speaking in an unknown tongue only helps/edifies the speaker)
12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
(NOTE: Seek the gifts of love & prophesy 1st. These lift up many)
13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
(NOTE: Only use the gift of tongues in assembly. When someone with the gift of interpretation is present)
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
(NOTE: The gift of tongues only benefits others when there is an interpretation. Tongues plus interpretation equals prophesy)
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
(NOTE: Without an interpreter present pray & sing so that all listening can understand)
16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
(NOTE: In assembly your gift of tongues doesn't help anyone else. Save it for your personal time with the Lord)
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
(NOTE: Paul say's he spends more personal time praying in tongues to God then ALL of them)
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
(NOTE: During assembly, Paul only speaks words all can understand)
23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
(NOTE: During an assembly only use words everyone can understand)
24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
(NOTE: Prophesy is good during assembly because it is a word from God that edifies/lifts up everyone)
26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
(NOTE: During assembly only seek to edify everyone)
27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
(NOTE: If someome with the gift of interpretation is present during assembly. Have 2-3 words given that will edify all)
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
(NOTE: Is no interpreter is present. Save your gift of tongues for your personal time with the Lord)
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
(NOTE: During assembly allow 2-3 prophecies be given to edify all present. Usually in this setting someone in leadership has the gift of discernment)
30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
(NOTE: If you have a word. And somone before you gives the same word. Leave it at that)
31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
(NOTE: Take turns one by one)
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
(NOTE: Gifts are given to the church for the edification of everyone. And are to be done orderly)
40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
(NOTE: Words & prophesys are to be given and done in an orderly fashion)
Finally:
The out pouring of the Holy Spirit on the Temple Mt is another subject.
Peter explains in Acts 2:14 it is a prophecy spoken by Joel 2:28 being fulfilled.
At the Tower of Babel. God confounded the rebellers tongues thereby seperating and dividing them.
We see the flipside of the curse happen on the Temple Mt. Everyone present was was able to hear understand and unite.
Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
(NOTE: John the baptist made clear that Christ would baptise with the Holy Spirit)
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(NOTE: Translators capitalized Spirit to identify when referring the Holy Spirit. Only Christ can baptise with/in the Holy Spirit. Salvation happens at the moment Christ baptizes us with the indewlling Holy Spirit)
Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision """made without hands""", in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
(NOTE: The baptism of the Holy Spirit is a SPIRITUAL circumcison/covenant done without hands)
There are different spiritual gifts given to different people beyond salvation
1 Corinthians 12:
1 """"Now concerning spiritual gifts""""", brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
(NOTE: Spiritual gifts beyond salvation)
4 """""Now there are diversities of gifts"""", """"but the same Spirit"""".
(NOTE: Different gifts, all given by Gods Holy Spirit)
5 And there are differences of administrations (forms of stewardship), but the same Lord.
(NOTE: Eph 4:11-12 prophets, evangelist, pastors For the perfecting of the saints & works in ministry)
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
(NOTE: Spiritual gifts are for the profit of the Church)
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
(NOTE: Two different gifts mentioned here)
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
(NOTE: Two more different gifts mentioned here)
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
(NOTE: Five more mentioned here. Note: The gifts of: divers kinds of tongues & the interpretation of tongues)
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
(NOTE: All these different gifts are by God the Holy Spirit)
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
(NOTE: Our bodies have many parts. Likewise the Spirit gives many gifts)
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(NOTE: Here states only one Baptism into one body. This happens to every believer at conversion. Then we see 9 additional gifts of the spirit mentioned in vs 8-10. A few more in Eph 4:11-12)
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
(NOTE: Here we see Apostles, helps & governments added to those mentioned earlier)
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
(NOTE: After salvation: Different people are given different spiritual gifts as the Spirit leads)
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
(NOTE: Everyone doesn't get the same gifts)
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
(NOTE: Paul gives an order of importance in vs 28 & tells us to desire & pray for the best ones.)
Here are additional sciptures on the subject:
1 Cor 14:
1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
(NOTE: Desire to have & display all spiritual gifts. Seek a loving spirit 1st & prophesy 2nd)
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
(NOTE: The gift of tongues only edifies the one praying)
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
(NOTE: Prophesy edifies the whole body that hears it)
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
(NOTE: The gift of tongues only edifies the one praying. Prophesy is given to and edifies the whole Church)
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
(NOTE: Pauls is prayerful all will receive the gift of tongues. But, teaches prophesy is better because is edifies all)
6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
(NOTE: Speaking in an unknown tongue only helps/edifies the speaker)
12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
(NOTE: Seek the gifts of love & prophesy 1st. These lift up many)
13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
(NOTE: Only use the gift of tongues in assembly. When someone with the gift of interpretation is present)
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
(NOTE: The gift of tongues only benefits others when there is an interpretation. Tongues plus interpretation equals prophesy)
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
(NOTE: Without an interpreter present pray & sing so that all listening can understand)
16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
(NOTE: In assembly your gift of tongues doesn't help anyone else. Save it for your personal time with the Lord)
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
(NOTE: Paul say's he spends more personal time praying in tongues to God then ALL of them)
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
(NOTE: During assembly, Paul only speaks words all can understand)
23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
(NOTE: During an assembly only use words everyone can understand)
24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
(NOTE: Prophesy is good during assembly because it is a word from God that edifies/lifts up everyone)
26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
(NOTE: During assembly only seek to edify everyone)
27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
(NOTE: If someome with the gift of interpretation is present during assembly. Have 2-3 words given that will edify all)
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
(NOTE: Is no interpreter is present. Save your gift of tongues for your personal time with the Lord)
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
(NOTE: During assembly allow 2-3 prophecies be given to edify all present. Usually in this setting someone in leadership has the gift of discernment)
30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
(NOTE: If you have a word. And somone before you gives the same word. Leave it at that)
31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
(NOTE: Take turns one by one)
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
(NOTE: Gifts are given to the church for the edification of everyone. And are to be done orderly)
40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
(NOTE: Words & prophesys are to be given and done in an orderly fashion)
Finally:
The out pouring of the Holy Spirit on the Temple Mt is another subject.
Peter explains in Acts 2:14 it is a prophecy spoken by Joel 2:28 being fulfilled.
At the Tower of Babel. God confounded the rebellers tongues thereby seperating and dividing them.
We see the flipside of the curse happen on the Temple Mt. Everyone present was was able to hear understand and unite.
Is not our Maker the same yesterday, today and foreer?
Pentacostal and charismatic labels came along long after the Holy Spirit Which is always.
I do not believe God's power and wonder manifested through His children yet in the flesh is dead, no the Holy Spirit is just as much with believers today as ever…...…..again, tongues is but one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and tongues will cease, but not before that pure language is given to all as prophesied in Zephaniah.
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I agree fully with the biblical text. At is was in the written time.
But, I dont agree that the sign gifts are still today as it was in past.
Why?
Because the sign gifts we find only taught in pentecostal and charismatic groups in connection with an special expierience with the Holy Spirit.
The fact is that all other christian groups dont got these signgifts and special the gift of speaking/ praying in tongues.
According the biblical text you showed that these gifts then must given from God to all christians, independ from their denominell background. And this is not!!
Further, if you consider the context of Joel 2,28 you must find out that this was only partwise fulfilled in acts 2.
I have no difficulties with Gods working today with signs and wonders. Is it his might to do what he want in which time.
But I have difficulties with the special from charismatic and pentecostal believers, that all others are less in relationship, and worship and faith, because they are not having the sign gifts.
And as you quotet from 1. Cor.12, 30. Not all have the gift of speaking in tongues.
From pentecostal and charismatic believers I often hear. That all can have the gift if speaking in tongues.
This is simply a lie and makes believer doubting their faith, because the have this gift not.
But, I dont agree that the sign gifts are still today as it was in past.
Why?
Because the sign gifts we find only taught in pentecostal and charismatic groups in connection with an special expierience with the Holy Spirit.
The fact is that all other christian groups dont got these signgifts and special the gift of speaking/ praying in tongues.
According the biblical text you showed that these gifts then must given from God to all christians, independ from their denominell background. And this is not!!
Further, if you consider the context of Joel 2,28 you must find out that this was only partwise fulfilled in acts 2.
I have no difficulties with Gods working today with signs and wonders. Is it his might to do what he want in which time.
But I have difficulties with the special from charismatic and pentecostal believers, that all others are less in relationship, and worship and faith, because they are not having the sign gifts.
And as you quotet from 1. Cor.12, 30. Not all have the gift of speaking in tongues.
From pentecostal and charismatic believers I often hear. That all can have the gift if speaking in tongues.
This is simply a lie and makes believer doubting their faith, because the have this gift not.
There are more gifts given from the Holy Spirit then speaking in tongues, ore healing. But it seems that some christian groups seeing in them the whole gifts. The most gifts we find today in the church. But they are not so spektaculare. Ore do you see in gifts like leading, teaching, charity no gifts given from the Holy Spirit?
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No one is saying the Holy Spirit no longer has the power to give gifts of the Holy Spirit to God's children. But a defining of those gifts must be searched out.
I would offer a good place is to look to is the foundation of the doctrine of tongues. (Isaiah28) Like Daivid's tongue inspired by God said in the Psalms. If they who appose God destroy the foundations what could we do ?
Psalm 11:2-4 King James Version (KJV) For, lo, the wicked bend their bow, they make ready their arrow upon the string, that they may privily shoot at the upright in heart. If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do? The Lord is in his holy temple, the Lord's throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.
I would offer a good place is to look to is the foundation of the doctrine of tongues. (Isaiah28) Like Daivid's tongue inspired by God said in the Psalms. If they who appose God destroy the foundations what could we do ?
Psalm 11:2-4 King James Version (KJV) For, lo, the wicked bend their bow, they make ready their arrow upon the string, that they may privily shoot at the upright in heart. If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do? The Lord is in his holy temple, the Lord's throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.
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Tongues is just one of the gifts.
Those who dont have the gift may have other spiritual gifts.
GOd gives different gifts to different people. He likes us to use them though. For those that do have this gift, be encouraged to use it. For those that dont, find out what other gifts God has given you and use them .dont boast about the gift. Boast about the Giver.
Praise the Lord He has given us tongues, to show that no matter where we are from or how we were raised we can all praise Him. People from EVERY tribe and tongue will come to worship Him and no it does not have to be in English, Greek or Hebrew.
Those who dont have the gift may have other spiritual gifts.
GOd gives different gifts to different people. He likes us to use them though. For those that do have this gift, be encouraged to use it. For those that dont, find out what other gifts God has given you and use them .dont boast about the gift. Boast about the Giver.
Praise the Lord He has given us tongues, to show that no matter where we are from or how we were raised we can all praise Him. People from EVERY tribe and tongue will come to worship Him and no it does not have to be in English, Greek or Hebrew.
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Hello wolfwint, I trust all is well with you. I'll reply best I can.
You said, Quote: ""I you agree agree fully with the biblical text"".
However, most of your reply seamingly disagree's with the posted verses.
You said, Quote: "" At is was in the written time. But, I dont agree that the sign gifts are still today as it was in past"".
1st, I believe Matt 3 is 100% accurate
2ndly: 1 Cor 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours
^^^Written to the, church of God/Body of Christ = believers, after the reurrection^^^
3rdly: Col 1:2 (A) To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse:
^^^Here again written to saints/in Christ Jesus = believers, after the resurrection^^^
You said, Quote: ""Because the sign gifts we find only taught in pentecostal and charismatic groups in connection with an special experience with the Holy Spirit"".
I can't answer your questions on pentecostal or charismatic groups. I fellowship at a Southern Baptist Church. Like you, the lead Pastor, doesn't believe the verses in Cor & Col are for today. I love my Pastor, even though, there are several pieces of doctrine he & I disagree on. He loves God & people & is extremely persuasive at soul winning. I can't think of a better place to hitch my wagon.
You said, Quote: ""The fact is that all other christian groups dont got these signgifts and special the gift of speaking/ praying in tongues. According the biblical text you showed that these gifts then must given from God to all christians, independ from their denominell background. And this is not""
No place did I say, gift's, are given to ALL Christian's. In fact, via my NOTES, I posted this:
1 Cor 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
(NOTE: After salvation: Different people are given different spiritual gifts as the Spirit leads)
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
(NOTE: Everyone doesn't get the same gifts)
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
(NOTE: Paul gives an order of importance in vs 28 & tells us to desire & pray for the best ones.)
You said, Quote: ""I have no difficulties with Gods working today with signs and wonders"".
Yet, much of your reply seamingly disagrees with posted scripture. Where God the Holy Spirit gives many spiritual gifts, to many different people
You said, Quote: ""But I have difficulties with the special from charismatic and pentecostal believers, that all others are less in relationship, and worship and faith, because they are not having the sign gifts. And as you quotet from 1. Cor.12, 30. Not all have the gift of speaking in tongues. From pentecostal and charismatic believers I often hear. That all can have the gift if speaking in tongues""
Earlier I said, I fellowship at a Southern Baptist Church where spiritual gifts are ignored. And that I can't answer questions on pentecostal or charismatic groups. Peace FD
You said, Quote: ""I you agree agree fully with the biblical text"".
However, most of your reply seamingly disagree's with the posted verses.
You said, Quote: "" At is was in the written time. But, I dont agree that the sign gifts are still today as it was in past"".
1st, I believe Matt 3 is 100% accurate
2ndly: 1 Cor 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours
^^^Written to the, church of God/Body of Christ = believers, after the reurrection^^^
3rdly: Col 1:2 (A) To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse:
^^^Here again written to saints/in Christ Jesus = believers, after the resurrection^^^
You said, Quote: ""Because the sign gifts we find only taught in pentecostal and charismatic groups in connection with an special experience with the Holy Spirit"".
I can't answer your questions on pentecostal or charismatic groups. I fellowship at a Southern Baptist Church. Like you, the lead Pastor, doesn't believe the verses in Cor & Col are for today. I love my Pastor, even though, there are several pieces of doctrine he & I disagree on. He loves God & people & is extremely persuasive at soul winning. I can't think of a better place to hitch my wagon.
You said, Quote: ""The fact is that all other christian groups dont got these signgifts and special the gift of speaking/ praying in tongues. According the biblical text you showed that these gifts then must given from God to all christians, independ from their denominell background. And this is not""
No place did I say, gift's, are given to ALL Christian's. In fact, via my NOTES, I posted this:
1 Cor 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
(NOTE: After salvation: Different people are given different spiritual gifts as the Spirit leads)
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
(NOTE: Everyone doesn't get the same gifts)
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
(NOTE: Paul gives an order of importance in vs 28 & tells us to desire & pray for the best ones.)
You said, Quote: ""I have no difficulties with Gods working today with signs and wonders"".
Yet, much of your reply seamingly disagrees with posted scripture. Where God the Holy Spirit gives many spiritual gifts, to many different people
You said, Quote: ""But I have difficulties with the special from charismatic and pentecostal believers, that all others are less in relationship, and worship and faith, because they are not having the sign gifts. And as you quotet from 1. Cor.12, 30. Not all have the gift of speaking in tongues. From pentecostal and charismatic believers I often hear. That all can have the gift if speaking in tongues""
Earlier I said, I fellowship at a Southern Baptist Church where spiritual gifts are ignored. And that I can't answer questions on pentecostal or charismatic groups. Peace FD
The SIGN gifts (tongues, healing, prophecy, etc) were given to the apostles. There are no apostles today. Have not been any since the last of the 12 went to their Lord. These gifts have ceased. Chrysostom, in his homilies on sign gifts, said that these "gifts" had cease so long ago that noone understood what they were. Those homilies were written in 4th century.
Gifts to the church are active today as ever.....they are gifts that edify the church (discernment, teaching, hospitality, etc)
If you want to know the biblical application of tongues then the first mention of the word in the bible refers to a KNOWN language.
To illustrate, a KNOWN language today would mean Italian, French, Spanish, etc.
And the translator must know that language. And women are to keep quiet in the churches.
The apostles had to know all languages to be able to take the gospel to the whole world, places where their "native" tongue was not understood. That they did take it to the whole world is stated by Paul (Col 1:23), who also went to many countries to teach.
Paul made it a point to call out the immaturity of the Corinthians, telling them it was Jews who sought for signs but they were to be of one mind, the mind of Christ. He was glad he had not baptized any of them!
Gifts to the church are active today as ever.....they are gifts that edify the church (discernment, teaching, hospitality, etc)
If you want to know the biblical application of tongues then the first mention of the word in the bible refers to a KNOWN language.
To illustrate, a KNOWN language today would mean Italian, French, Spanish, etc.
And the translator must know that language. And women are to keep quiet in the churches.
The apostles had to know all languages to be able to take the gospel to the whole world, places where their "native" tongue was not understood. That they did take it to the whole world is stated by Paul (Col 1:23), who also went to many countries to teach.
Paul made it a point to call out the immaturity of the Corinthians, telling them it was Jews who sought for signs but they were to be of one mind, the mind of Christ. He was glad he had not baptized any of them!
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