PRE- MID- POST TRIBULATION.... JESUS RETURN TO EARTH FOR HIS BRIDE!

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Apr 5, 2020
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Pretrib rapture has to be the easiest doctrine to defend.

Give me a single verse that proves it then?
One that claims we leave before Tribulation begins?
One that clarifies Tribulation is the Wrath of God since we know at JUDGEMENT almost 90 BILLION people will be forced into an ETERNAL HELL which actually equals to the Wrath of God?

Show me the VERSES?
 
Apr 5, 2020
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Really? To be sure, there will indeed be a great white throne judgment at the end of the thousand years, but that is not the wrath that is spoken of. The wrath that is coming upon the earth, will be like no other time in history, unprecedented. By the time the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, the majority of the earths population will have been decimated and all human government dismantled. A thousand years after God's wrath has taken place is when the great white throne judgment will take place and is where all of the unrighteous dead throughout all of history will stand before God and will be judged. However, God's wrath, the Day of the Lord, will take place leading up to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, as well as the plagues that the two witnesses bring.

The Day of the Lord which was prophesied of by the prophets of old and the apostles, is that time of wrath. The book of Revelation is a detailed account of all that is going to take place during the time of God's wrath, which is made up of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. Everything that Satan, the beast and the false prophet do during that time, is apart of God's wrath whom He uses to fulfill His will.

The great white throne judgment will be exactly that, the final judgment with the results being everyone whose names is not found written in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire. The wrath which is coming upon this earth is listed from Revelation chapters 6 thru 18. Therefore, it is not a matter regarding, as you said, "That to Me is wrath." But what God's word teaches as being His wrath is what counts. In support of this, the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are identified as God's wrath. So, I don't know why you would say that:

"I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues—last, because with them God’s wrath is completed."

The verse above is in reference to those seven angels with the seven [last plagues], last because with them [God's wrath] is completed. This verse is referring to the seven angels with the bowl judgments, which complete God's wrath. Since the seven bowls are identified as being last, then it would mean that other wrath would have to come before them. If I say, "I was last in line to by concert tickets," that would mean that other people were ahead of me. It is the same here. Since these seven bowls are referred to as being the seven last plagues of wrath, then it would infer that there will wrath that will come before them, namely, the seals and trumpets. The word of God is referring to them as being God's wrath, where the great white throne is a final judgment.


Letting Satan have his day during the Tribulation only equals to God's Wrath in the form of Sacrilege!
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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Before any of us ever accepted God, God had already chosen us. If that is not Elected, then the definition is incorrect to begin with. We are grafted in. We are Israelites to God. We are the Elect!
"biker, post: 4300041, member: 295736"]But there is a verse in Matthew 24 where Jesus says AFTER TRIBULATION ENDS HE RETURNS!

Therefore I have 1 verse and YOU have NONE![/QUOTE]

No, Gentile believers do not become Israelites. We share in the same blessings by having faith in Christ, but God does not see us as Israel.

Matthew 24 is referring to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age and not referring to when the church is caught up. Until you understand that the Lord's appearing to catch up the church as being a separate event from His return to the earth to end the age, you will remain in error regarding your interpretation.

You continue to ignore the fact that the church cannot go through the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which make up the wrath of God. And you cannot say that they are not God's wrath, because it states that they are right in scripture.

Not understanding the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath and not understanding that Jesus already satisfied God's wrath on behalf of every believer, are two of the main reasons that people err by putting the church through God's wrath. Regarding this, God does not punish the righteous with the wicked.

The appearing of our Lord and our being gathered to Him = Church caught up and taken back to the Father's house (John 14:1-3)

The second coming = The Lord's return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom

At the gathering of the church, the Lord does not return to the earth, but appears in the atmosphere and calls up the dead and the living in Him, with the time of God's wrath which follows.

When the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, He will visually and physically return to the earth and His bride, the church, will follow Him out of heaven riding on white horses.

So, the Lord's appearing to gather the church and the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, will be two separate events with two different purposes.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
9,394
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Letting Satan have his day during the Tribulation only equals to God's Wrath in the form of Sacrilege!
As I said, all that Satan, the beast and the false prophet do, are all apart of God's wrath. He will be using them to fulfill his will during that time. It is not Satan's or man's wrath, but God's.
 
Apr 5, 2020
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No, Gentile believers do not become Israelites. We share in the same blessings by having faith in Christ, but God does not see us as Israel.

Matthew 24 is referring to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age and not referring to when the church is caught up. Until you understand that the Lord's appearing to catch up the church as being a separate event from His return to the earth to end the age, you will remain in error regarding your interpretation.

You continue to ignore the fact that the church cannot go through the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which make up the wrath of God. And you cannot say that they are not God's wrath, because it states that they are right in scripture.

Not understanding the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath and not understanding that Jesus already satisfied God's wrath on behalf of every believer, are two of the main reasons that people err by putting the church through God's wrath. Regarding this, God does not punish the righteous with the wicked.

The appearing of our Lord and our being gathered to Him = Church caught up and taken back to the Father's house (John 14:1-3)

The second coming = The Lord's return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom

At the gathering of the church, the Lord does not return to the earth, but appears in the atmosphere and calls up the dead and the living in Him, with the time of God's wrath which follows.

When the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, He will visually and physically return to the earth and His bride, the church, will follow Him out of heaven riding on white horses.

So, the Lord's appearing to gather the church and the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, will be two separate events with two different purposes.


You were CHOSEN by God to become one of His own before He spoke the first thing into existence. Jew or not, You were already Elected by God before all of time began to be one of His Heirs. You are the ELECT! You have just refused to understand that!
 
Apr 5, 2020
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As I said, all that Satan, the beast and the false prophet do, are all apart of God's wrath. He will be using them to fulfill his will during that time. It is not Satan's or man's wrath, but God's.



There is no WRATH happening during the Tribulation! There is an event where humanity gets to finally choose who they serve (Beast or God)!
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
9,394
1,509
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You were CHOSEN by God to become one of His own before He spoke the first thing into existence. Jew or not, You were already Elected by God before all of time began to be one of His Heirs. You are the ELECT! You have just refused to understand that!
No, I agree and teach that God predestined us and foreknew us and wrote our names in the book of life before the world began. What I don't agree with, is what you said about Gentiles becoming Israelites.
 
Apr 5, 2020
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God is allowing His 2 Witnesses to be killed!
How is that the Wrath of God allowing His own to die?
The Tribulation has NOTHING to do with God's Wrath, NOTHING!
 
Apr 5, 2020
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No, I agree and teach that God predestined us and foreknew us and wrote our names in the book of life before the world began. What I don't agree with, is what you said about Gentiles becoming Israelites.

Why Not?
Adam was not a Hebrew!
No one was Hebrew until Jacob and his 12 sons.
And technically, Abraham was born in Iran/Iraq, so he clearly was no Hebrew and he is the Father of us all Spiritually!
Abraham is just like You and Myself, a Gentile!
But we were all ELECTED by God!
We are all the ELECT of God!
 
Apr 5, 2020
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Enoch was no Hebrew
Noah was not a Hebrew

why does the ELECT mean Hebrew?

Because a pre-tribber wants it to mean that?

TOO BAD!
 
Apr 5, 2020
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Jacob is Hebrew only by God making him an heir and changing his name to Israel. Technically, anyone of us who comes from NOAH is the same! We are all adopted in as Heirs to God. None of us are direct lineage to God Himself. We are ALL drafted in. Therefore, all Believers are the ELECT!
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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There is no WRATH happening during the Tribulation! There is an event where humanity gets to finally choose who they serve (Beast or God)!
Really?! Well, scripture would disagree with you!

The 6th Seal:


They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us f from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it.

7th Trumpet:

"We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and have begun to reign. The nations were angry, and your wrath has come.

Seven Bowls:

"I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues—last, because with them God’s wrath is completed."

So, you have the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments referred to as being God's wrath. Therefore, I don't know how you could say "There is no WRATH happening during the Tribulation!" Which is funny, because the word tribulation is referring to that time of God's wrath. It's God's tribulation.

As you can see, the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are referred to specifically as being God's wrath, the only way you could say that they are not, is by ignoring those scriptures or by your own assumption.
 

Just_Jo

Active member
May 29, 2020
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Really?! Well, scripture would disagree with you!

The 6th Seal:

They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us f from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it.

7th Trumpet:

"We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and have begun to reign. The nations were angry, and your wrath has come.

Seven Bowls:

"I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues—last, because with them God’s wrath is completed."

So, you have the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments referred to as being God's wrath. Therefore, I don't know how you could say "There is no WRATH happening during the Tribulation!" Which is funny, because the word tribulation is referring to that time of God's wrath. It's God's tribulation.

As you can see, the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are referred to specifically as being God's wrath, the only way you could say that they are not, is by ignoring those scriptures or by your own assumption.




Thank you for sharing biblical knowledge in such a precise form.
God has blessed your study of His word!
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
9,394
1,509
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Why Not?
Adam was not a Hebrew!
No one was Hebrew until Jacob and his 12 sons.
And technically, Abraham was born in Iran/Iraq, so he clearly was no Hebrew and he is the Father of us all Spiritually!
Abraham is just like You and Myself, a Gentile!
But we were all ELECTED by God!
We are all the ELECT of God!
Yes, we are the elect which is a term used for those whom God has chosen. But it does not mean that the Gentile believers become Israelites. Those who have the same faith as Abraham are the spiritual offspring of Abraham. But we are not Israelites.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
9,394
1,509
113
Thank you for sharing biblical knowledge in such a precise form.
God has blessed your study of His word!
Always my pleasure and calling! I just hope that biker understands it. Many have no idea of the severity and magnitude of God's wrath that is going to come upon this earth. Understand that, it is Jesus as the Lamb who is opening the seals, which leads into the trumpets, followed by the bowl judgments. With just the 4th seal and 6th trumpet (a fourth and a third, respectively), this will equal the decimation of well over half the earths population which is God's doing. And that is not counting the fatalities that will result from trumpets 1, 2 & 3, nor from the bowl judgments. This is supported by when Jesus said, "if those days had not been shortened, no one would be left alive on the earth. It's God's tribulation/wrath which will cause all of this.
 
Apr 5, 2020
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Really?! Well, scripture would disagree with you!

The 6th Seal:

They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us f from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it.

7th Trumpet:

"We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and have begun to reign. The nations were angry, and your wrath has come.

Seven Bowls:

"I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues—last, because with them God’s wrath is completed."

So, you have the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments referred to as being God's wrath. Therefore, I don't know how you could say "There is no WRATH happening during the Tribulation!" Which is funny, because the word tribulation is referring to that time of God's wrath. It's God's tribulation.

As you can see, the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are referred to specifically as being God's wrath, the only way you could say that they are not, is by ignoring those scriptures or by your own assumption.

Those Trumpets are at the end of Tribulation like I have been stating!
 
Apr 5, 2020
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Yes, we are the elect which is a term used for those whom God has chosen. But it does not mean that the Gentile believers become Israelites. Those who have the same faith as Abraham are the spiritual offspring of Abraham. But we are not Israelites.


Does not matter if you are jew or not, you are God's Elect!
 
Apr 5, 2020
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Those Trumpets are at the end of Tribulation like I have been stating!

Give me some real proof during the first 6 years of Tribulation of verses claiming to be God's Wrath, not VERSES when we know Tribulation is about to END!
 
Apr 5, 2020
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Stop being a CHERRY PICKER!

Anyone with the slightest bit of knowledge can see how you're misleading by using the vials/trumpets/seals when they DO NOT TAKE PLACE until Christ is about to RETURN!
 

RevelationMan

Active member
Sep 14, 2019
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Always my pleasure and calling! I just hope that biker understands it. Many have no idea of the severity and magnitude of God's wrath that is going to come upon this earth. Understand that, it is Jesus as the Lamb who is opening the seals, which leads into the trumpets, followed by the bowl judgments. With just the 4th seal and 6th trumpet (a fourth and a third, respectively), this will equal the decimation of well over half the earths population which is God's doing. And that is not counting the fatalities that will result from trumpets 1, 2 & 3, nor from the bowl judgments. This is supported by when Jesus said, "if those days had not been shortened, no one would be left alive on the earth. It's God's tribulation/wrath which will cause all of this.
Ahwatukee, who are "God's holy People" in Revelation 13:7? If the church is gone who would the holy people be? The beast wages war against them and conquers them.

It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them.