PRE- MID- POST TRIBULATION.... JESUS RETURN TO EARTH FOR HIS BRIDE!

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Apr 5, 2020
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Ahwatukee, who are "God's holy People" in Revelation 13:7? If the church is gone who would the holy people be? The beast wages war against them and conquers them.

It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them.


The biggest Reason for Pre-Tribbers to claim this is the Jews (so the Bride can be Raptured) is their disbelief that the Holy Spirit will not be active during the Tribulation.

But I propose, where is the POWER of the 2 Witnesses coming from?
It's not their own power. If they had the sort of power John writes about, they would be God!
It comes from the Holy Spirit!
So, if the Holy Spirit is still here during the Tribulation, why wouldn't the Church/Bride/Elect not be here filled with the Holy Spirit?

There are so many holes in the Pre-Trib philosophy they resort to using the 6th and 7th Trump/Seals which everyone knows this takes place AFTER the Tribulation!
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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Ahwatukee, who are "God's holy People" in Revelation 13:7? If the church is gone who would the holy people be? The beast wages war against them and conquers them.

It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them.
....AND TO CONQUER THEM.

you just verified the saints all die in the gt.

No possibility of a rapture of the church postrib.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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Does not matter if you are jew or not, you are God's Elect!
...which verifies the jews go through the gt.
God's elect going through the gt.
The bride does not.
 
Apr 5, 2020
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...which verifies the jews go through the gt.
God's elect going through the gt.
The bride does not.

Where does it say the Bride does not go through?
I am reading what you post knowing there are no Scriptures to back what you're claiming.
Since there are "NO" scriptures to back your claim, I am interested in just how big of a LIE have you convinced yourself this will happen when Scripture itself calls you a LIAR!
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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Twist that Bible, it's the only way so far I have seen how most of what you believe has been done. The ELECT is anyone SAVED in Christ!
...and yet you will not go to rev 14.

YOU SKIP IT.

REV 14.

LETS LOOK AT IT.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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Where does it say the Bride does not go through?
I am reading what you post knowing there are no Scriptures to back what you're claiming.
Since there are "NO" scriptures to back your claim, I am interested in just how big of a LIE have you convinced yourself this will happen when Scripture itself calls you a LIAR!
Do you pray that you will be counted worthy to escape the gt as Jesus instructed?
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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Ahwatukee, who are "God's holy People" in Revelation 13:7? If the church is gone who would the holy people be? The beast wages war against them and conquers them.

It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them.
Hello RevelationMan!

In answer to holy people (hagios) in Rev.13:7, it is this group below introduced in Rev.7:9-17

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9After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb.

13Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”


14I answered, “Sir, you know.”

And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15Therefore,

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If you recall, John was previously asked to write letters to the seven churches, which covers chapters 2 thru 3. Then in Chapter 7, John sees a group in white robes which no man can count from every nation, tribe, people and language meaning that it is a very high number and that they are all Gentiles. The very fact that the elder is asking John who they are demonstrates that they are not the church whom John just wrote to, but a different group. In addition, John says that he doesn't know who they are and the elder tells him that these are those who come out of the great tribulation. Since the great tribulation has not yet begun in the chronology of Revelation, then this would be a vision of those saints who will have died during the great tribulation, who are also mentioned in Rev.20:4-6 as those who john sees beheaded and then resurrected:

And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

So, those in Rev.13:7 who the beast is given authority to make war against and to conquer for 42 month, are those great tribulation saints. 42 months (in 30 day increments), is referring to the last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period. Daniel also mentions this same group:

"He (beast) will speak out against the Most High and oppress the saints of the Most High, intending to change the appointed times and laws; and the saints will be given into his hand for a time, and times, and half a time."

A time = one year
times = two years
Half a time = half a year

Total = 3 1/2 years

Throughout Revelation chapters 1 thru 3, only the word 'ekklesia' translated as 'church' is used within those chapters. Then from chapter 4 onward, only the word 'hagios' translated as 'saints' is used. We never see the word church again until Rev.22:16 and is alluded to in Rev.19:7-8 referred to as the bride.

I personally believe that Rev.4:1 is a prophetic allusion to the where the church is called up when John hears that voice that sounds like a trumpet who is identified as the Lord in Rev.1:10 and 4:1. I believe that this is also a clue representing the 'trumpet of God' mentioned in I Thessalonians 4:16.

The church cannot be on the earth during the time of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, because they make up God's wrath which we are not appointed to suffer. And that because Christ already suffered God's wrath on behalf of all believers.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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Twist that Bible, it's the only way so far I have seen how most of what you believe has been done. The ELECT is anyone SAVED in Christ!
is 45
4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
 

Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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But there is a verse in Matthew 24 where Jesus says AFTER TRIBULATION ENDS HE RETURNS!

Therefore I have 1 verse and YOU have NONE!
We agree
Jesus comes back after the gt.

We have always agreed on that.
 
Apr 5, 2020
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...and yet you will not go to rev 14.

YOU SKIP IT.

REV 14.

LETS LOOK AT IT.


First of all, Tribulation has to begin and the Beast has to be in POWER before people take the Mark.

So these verses ARE after Tribulation Ends:

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.


18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

^
Every one of those verses happen after the Tribulation, not during.


Let me ask YOU:

How can someone be JUDGED for taking the MARK UNTIL they have TAKEN the MARK?
And the Mark does not come into effect until the Beast is in Power.
And this does not happen in the first part of the Tribulation.

So then, why would you use Scripture that talks about something has to first happen before Consequences take place?

Are you speaking in Riddles or talking BACKWARDS?
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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Where does it say the Bride does not go through?
I am reading what you post knowing there are no Scriptures to back what you're claiming.
Since there are "NO" scriptures to back your claim, I am interested in just how big of a LIE have you convinced yourself this will happen when Scripture itself calls you a LIAR!
luke 21;36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

rev 3;10 Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I will also keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world to try them that dwell upon the earth.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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First of all, Tribulation has to begin and the Beast has to be in POWER before people take the Mark.

So these verses ARE after Tribulation Ends:

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.


18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

^
Every one of those verses happen after the Tribulation, not during.


Let me ask YOU:

How can someone be JUDGED for taking the MARK UNTIL they have TAKEN the MARK?
And the Mark does not come into effect until the Beast is in Power.
And this does not happen in the first part of the Tribulation.


So then, why would you use Scripture that talks about something has to first happen before Consequences take place?

Are you speaking in Riddles or talking BACKWARDS?
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

Jesus reaps ripe fruit DURING THE GT

....and you skipped it.
you skipped it
 

Blade

Active member
Nov 19, 2019
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I like Perry Stone, but he is nothing like his dad. So far, everything Perry has prophesied HAS NOT HAPPENED!
Bold statement.. so feel free to prove it.

Someone said "is their disbelief that the Holy Spirit will not be active during the Tribulation. ". I have heard of this and I don't know any that believe that. Holy Spirit will be here just no like He is now. The only way the lawless one comes is "something/he" is taken out of the way. Out of the way.. not removed :)
 
Apr 5, 2020
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luke 21;36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

rev 3;10 Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I will also keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world to try them that dwell upon the earth.


Hahahahaha Really?

You act like if you're here during the Tribulation you will be TEMPTED to take the Mark.
What kind of a wishy washy so-called believer are you?

That's just Pathetic!
 
Apr 5, 2020
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14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

Jesus reaps ripe fruit DURING THE GT

....and you skipped it.
you skipped it


I did not skip anything. That was between what is going to happen to those who take the Mark and to those in the vinepress. It still ALL takes place AFTER the Tribulation. Which is something you are desperately trying to deny!
 
Apr 5, 2020
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So far, what I have gathered from Pre-Tribbers are people AFRAID of the DEVIL and his gang!

I better NEVER read a post from any of you claiming GREATER IS HE IN ME THAN he that is in the world!

Because I won't and surely God doesn't Believe you for a minute!