Pre Trib Rapture Moment 11: What will trigger the rapture?

[ChristIsLord229]

I'd say the Olivet discourses are directed at the disciples, "believing Jews."

Following the olivet discourse in Mark...

[SUP]'13: 37 [/SUP]And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.' Its the coming tribulation like no other, to all people.

The apostles do not represent the jews, one of the apostles was a Canaanite. There is no believing 'jew'

Romans 11:[SUP]7 [/SUP]What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

1 John 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.


The jews are not saved, if they were, theyd be christians...

 

[Enow]

I guess you can take every verse that talks about God's deliverance, rip them out of context, and say that they are talking about rapturing the Church before the Tribulation.

If the only thing God is delivering you from is the Tribulation, then what about deliverance from the final judgement(the White Throne/ the Lake of Fire)? What about His daily deliverance from temptation and trials?

Don't take the Psalms out of context. It is very unDispensational of you.

Some post tribbers say that nowhere in His words does it says that God will take one out of tribulation and place them in a safe place as in the shadow of His wings.

Just saying that as much as contenders refuse to see Jesus's warning believers about being ready or else as His servants, they will be left behind and be punished for not preparing themselves....and only God can help them see that as a prelude to the pre tribulational rapture.... there are other verses in the Bible that can testify of God taking one out of tribulation to a safe place.

But if you want to really address my points of pre trib rapture, then consider the warnings of Jesus here.

Luke 12:[SUP]40 [/SUP]Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. [SUP]41 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? [SUP]42 [/SUP]And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? [SUP]43 [/SUP]Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. [SUP]44 [/SUP]Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. [SUP]45 [/SUP]But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; [SUP]46 [/SUP]The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. [SUP]47 [/SUP]And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. [SUP]48 [/SUP]But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. [SUP]49 [/SUP]I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

Can any of His servants be caught unaware in the great tribulation? No. So the time to be ready is now because there is a pre trib rapture for which unprepared saints will be cut asunder and be castaways as in left behind.

If God led Paul to teach about excommunication of those that are not abiding in His words in 1 Corinthians 5th chapter, then may God help you to see why the pre trib rapture has to come first for the purpose of the Marriage Supper and to restore the wayward to the path of righteousness for His name's sake by being left behind.

1 Corinthians 5:[SUP]4 [/SUP]In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, [SUP]5 [/SUP]To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? [SUP]7 [/SUP]Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: [SUP]8 [/SUP]Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

As God led Paul to teach the church to do, so will God do when the Bridegroom comes to judge His House first.

 

[Anonimous]

Following the olivet discourse in Mark...

[SUP]'13: 37 [/SUP]And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.' Its the coming tribulation like no other, to all people.

The apostles do not represent the jews, one of the apostles was a Canaanite. There is no believing 'jew'

Romans 11:[SUP]7 [/SUP]What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

1 John 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.


The jews are not saved, if they were, theyd be christians...

If a Jew comes to believe on Jesus he is a believer. I don't believe there are nationalities in heaven. There are messianic Jews. It's bad enough that when a Jew becomes a believer the other Jews ostracize them without Christians doing the same.

 

[PlainWord]

I'd say the Olivet discourses are directed at the disciples, "believing Jews." It has meaning for Christians of all ages, meaning for Jews looking for their coming King, meaning ultimately for tribulation saints.

Not every scholar starts out with a pre-trib assumption. There have been amills who become pre-mills, pre-trib who become post-mill, pre-trib who become pre-wrath, post-trib who become pre-trib, as well as a whole host who come from nothing and become amill, pre-mill, pre-trib, post-trib, etc. In each one of the 1st examples I am thinking of a specific book that has been written which is the personal experience of the author. I can reference all of this but you get the point.

The fact is, eschatology was not studied to the extent it is today throughout 2000 years of church history. It's only really been studied in the last 200 years, with modern scholarly work in the last 100 years. This to me speaks of the fact that God says that those near the end will understand.

Is there a difference between being caught up to meet the Lord in the clouds and Jesus coming in the clouds, descending to the earth and His feet breaking the Mt. of Olives?
Is there a difference between the gathering call of the trumpet in 1 Thess. 4 and the judgment announcements of the trumpets in Rev.?
Is there a difference between the dead in Christ being resurrected along with those who remain at the Rapture and the picture we have of the 2nd coming in Matt. 24 where it's the wicked who are taken away into judgment "and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40“Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. 41“Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left. This is a taking away to judgment, we want to be left behind here to enter the millenial kingdom.

Some focus on the similarities, some on the differences. Clearly someone is wrong, but both sides should agree that they are trying to do justice to the beautiful words of Scripture.

Try looking at everything describing ONE RETURN AFTER the Tribulation. If you do that, you will start to see how it all ties together. Don't try to parse this passage to the Rapture and this to the Second Coming. If you do, you will end up lost and frustrated.

You're getting hung up on Clouds verses. Mount of Olives. Why??? The Bible does not teach anywhere that the Lord returns to the Mount of Olives at the Second Coming. Zech 14:4 states:

And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south.

If you understand that "THAT DAY" is the Lord's Day and it lasts 1,000 years, then you see no problem with the Lord returning on the Clouds of Heaven then later seen standing on the Mount of Olives. Notice also from Rev 14:1 the Lord is seen on Mount Zion.

1 Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father's name written on their foreheads.

Neither passage state the Lord returns there when He comes back, just that He is seen there. Logic would suggest the Lord can return on the Clouds of heaven, gather us, then touch down far more than it suggesting He does a U-Turn and takes us all back to heaven. We have two passages showing the Lord on earth verses ZERO showing Him back in heaven.

 

[zone]

To all of my post-trib, and amillennial friends,

I just want you all to know that I love you,
and when the rapture comes...
I promise not to leave without you.

: )

you won't Maxwell.
it's all on the same day
the last day. we'll be all together
some might be alive the day He comes, and just changed - wow...imagine that!


1 Corinthians 15
The Resurrection Body
35But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?” 36You foolish person! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37And what you sow is not the body that is to be, but a bare kernel, perhaps of wheat or of some other grain. 38But God gives it a body as he has chosen, and to each kind of seed its own body. 39For not all flesh is the same, but there is one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish. 40There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is of one kind, and the glory of the earthly is of another. 41There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.

42So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. 43It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. 44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”;e the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual. 47The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. 48As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shallf also bear the image of the man of heaven.

Mystery and Victory
50I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. 54When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:

“Death is swallowed up in victory.”
55 “O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?”

 

[maxwel]

you won't Maxwell.
it's all on the same day
the last day. we'll be all together
some might be alive the day He comes, and just changed - wow...imagine that!


1 Corinthians 15
The Resurrection Body
35But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?” 36You foolish person! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37And what you sow is not the body that is to be, but a bare kernel, perhaps of wheat or of some other grain. 38But God gives it a body as he has chosen, and to each kind of seed its own body. 39For not all flesh is the same, but there is one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish. 40There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is of one kind, and the glory of the earthly is of another. 41There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.

42So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. 43It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. 44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”;e the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual. 47The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. 48As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shallf also bear the image of the man of heaven.

Mystery and Victory
50I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. 54When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:

“Death is swallowed up in victory.”
55 “O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?”

Zone, this is wonderful news!

I am so thankful we will all be in heaven together.

I'm so thankful that on the last day, finally, all joy will be fulfilled,
and all suffering will end,
and all peace and happiness will flood our souls,
and all of your well-intended theological errors will be forgotten.


BTW...

Do you think Calvinists and Arminians will have to sit on opposite sides of heaven...
so they won't fight?

: )

 

[konroh]

The Day of the Lord is complex, sometimes "in that day" can refer to a long period, sometimes a single day. The prophetic visions aren't all the same. This prophecy from Zech. 14 parallels Rev. 19.

1Behold, a day is coming for the LORD when the spoil taken from you will be divided among you. 2For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city. 3Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle. 4In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south. 5You will flee by the valley of My mountains, for the valley of the mountains will reach to Azel; yes, you will flee just as you fled before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD, my God, will come, and all the holy ones with Him! 6In that day there will be no light; the luminaries will dwindle. 7For it will be a unique day which is known to the LORD, neither day nor night, but it will come about that at evening time there will be light.
8And in that day living waters will flow out of Jerusalem, half of them toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea; it will be in summer as well as in winter.


God Will Be King over All

9And the LORD will be king over all the earth; in that day the LORD will be the only one, and His name the only one.

The ordinary meaning one can see is that Jesus will physically touch His feet on the Mt. of Olives. In Rev. 19 he returns and calls everyone to drink the blood of the kings He has conquered. He returns physically to earth!

Contrast this with 1 Thess. 4:17Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18Therefore comfort one another with these words.
and John 14:3“If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

These verses speak of Christ returning and taking us up with Him to heaven. They may just have a general meaning to the post-trib position, but they have a specific meaning to the pre-trib position. Stop saying there are no verses showing the Lord back in heaven.

 

[zone]

Zone, this is wonderful news!

I am so thankful we will all be in heaven together.

I'm so thankful that on the last day, finally, all joy will be fulfilled,
and all suffering will end,
and all peace and happiness will flood our souls,

and all of your well-intended theological errors will be forgotten.

BTW...

Do you think Calvinists and Arminians will have to sit on opposite sides of heaven...
so they won't fight?

: )

i don't know - let's ask ROB BELL.

[puts Max on fake ignore]

 

[PlainWord]

The fact is, eschatology was not studied to the extent it is today throughout 2000 years of church history. It's only really been studied in the last 200 years, with modern scholarly work in the last 100 years. This to me speaks of the fact that God says that those near the end will understand.

What else has only come out the last two hundred years?

Evolution
Communism
New World Order
2 World Wars
United Nations
A bunch of new Denominations

Are they of God too???

 

[konroh]

Congratulations PlainWord, you've just been guilty of the logical fallacy known formally as Red Herring. Wow, since Pre-trib only came out in the last 200 years and so did Evolution, Pre-trib must be wrong. Wait, I bet computers and ipads and the internet are bad too! I shouldn't even be on the internet!

You've also been guilty of the logical fallacy known as Appeal to Iniquity. Oh Post-trib must be true it's older than Pre-trib! Whatever is older is better. The airplanes we had 100 years ago sure are better than the airplanes today.

And of course, who can forget Ad Hominem attacks. Pre-trib is wrong, it's of the devil.

Speak the TRUTH in LOVE, if we only speak truth we risk being indifferently authoritative, if we only love we risk sympathy without solutions, if we speak the truth in love we might get somewhere.

 

[ChristianUk13]

And of course, who can forget Ad Hominem attacks.

Who can forget how Ad Hominem and Ad Hominem attack are two different things but they get misrepresented for one another. Ad Hominem means to aim discussion at the person making a specific argument instead of the argument itself. In other words it means personal. This by itself is not a personal attack. An Ad Hominem attack is something which is offensive and there is likely no good reason for its use.

I often see Americans use ad hominem attack when someone challenges their ideas. Perhaps universities these persons attended didn't inform them how to use words for correctness in view of application to proportionality.

 

[ChristIsLord229]

Chosenbyhim, are you a calvinist? Do You believe god predestinates (chooses) who gets saved? Your name implies that.

 

[The_highwayman]

Chosenbyhim, are you a calvinist? Do You believe god predestinates (chooses) who gets saved? Your name implies that.

I believe chosenbyhim is or was a Peter Ruckman trained Bible Baptist Believer, they are a faction of Baptists led by Peter Ruckman, who believes in the English AV/KJVonly and does not the Hebrew or Greek translations are needed or accurate and also believes the Septuagint is a hoax.

 

[Anonimous]

Wow! Can't you just feel the love in here? It's almost stifling at times.

 

[PlainWord]

Congratulations PlainWord, you've just been guilty of the logical fallacy known formally as Red Herring. Wow, since Pre-trib only came out in the last 200 years and so did Evolution, Pre-trib must be wrong. Wait, I bet computers and ipads and the internet are bad too! I shouldn't even be on the internet!

You've also been guilty of the logical fallacy known as Appeal to Iniquity. Oh Post-trib must be true it's older than Pre-trib! Whatever is older is better. The airplanes we had 100 years ago sure are better than the airplanes today.

And of course, who can forget Ad Hominem attacks. Pre-trib is wrong, it's of the devil.

Speak the TRUTH in LOVE, if we only speak truth we risk being indifferently authoritative, if we only love we risk sympathy without solutions, if we speak the truth in love we might get somewhere.

Are you passing judgment Konroh? Is that your job? I am simply arguing back at you using your argument. You suggest the validity of Pre-Trib is tied to some kind of awaking of truth in the latter days. Here is your quote again.

The fact is, eschatology was not studied to the extent it is today throughout 2000 years of church history. It's only really been studied in the last 200 years, with modern scholarly work in the last 100 years. This to me speaks of the fact that God says that those near the end will understand.

Using your argument, I pointed out several significant doctrines or beliefs that are contemporaneous to the genesis of the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine, which are indeed wrong such as Communism and Evolution. In fact, Pre-Trib actually Pre-Dates both of these. OOPS. Check the bottom of your shoes, I think you stepped in something...

 

[Enow]

Galatians 5:[SUP]13 [/SUP]For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [SUP]15 [/SUP]But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.[SUP]16 [/SUP]This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

1 Corinthians 13:[SUP]9 [/SUP]For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. [SUP]10 [/SUP]But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. [SUP]11 [/SUP]When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. [SUP]12 [/SUP]For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. [SUP]13 [/SUP]And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

 

[konroh]

I'll try not to bite and devour anybody, we've probably run the course with this post, but I'll stick by my point that it's foolish to berate the pre-trib position based on logical fallacies. It's a fallacy to assume it's wrong because it wasn't expressed in detail until recently in church history. The trinity took 200 years before it was official doctrine, christology, another 100-200 years. The fact that many aspects of theology have been pounded out doesn't negate the fact that the last 200 years has really pounded out eschatology. There will not be any new heretical views about the Trinity or non-Trinity that don't have origins 1800 years ago. I doubt there will be any new heretical views about soteriology that don't have seed form in the past. And the different views on the aspects of the Atonement of Christ ended 350 years ago. No one's come up with a new view of the atonement that hasn't already been proposed.

My point is not to belittle church history, my point is to recognize the richness and the resource of it. The beauty of some of Pre-trib theology is that it recognizes the interpretation of the OT promises that the Jews before Jesus' day had. It agrees with them. It also agrees with the imminent Return of Christ idea that Christians have had for 2000 years. And without a doubt it opens up a new way to look at texts which were often overlooked in church history. Over 25% of the Bible was prophecy when it was written so it would be likely that 25% of Systematic Theologies would cover Eschatology. That actually sounds very unbalanced but the fact is, any Systematic Theology before 1900 are usually very anemic when covering eschatology. 1000 pages on soteriology, 50 pages on eschatology. I'm okay with that. The Church saints are progressing in their understanding of the whole word of God.

 

[PlainWord]

My ID is PlainWord. I chose this ID for a reason. The Word is written plainly and is meant to be understood by those who read it. Most topics are written plainly and clearly. Most parables are explained. Prophesies are the exception. Imagery and spiritual terms are often used especially in Daniel and Revelation. The key to "decoding" these books, especially Revelation, is to see how these spiritual or figurative words and phrases are used elsewhere and to compare Revelation prophesy to other prophesy that is more clearly written such as to the Olivet Discourse. When this is done, you see that all reference to any kind of "sexual immorality" in Revelation is really "Idolatry" or "false doctrine."

"not defiled with women, for they are virgins" = "spiritually pure and doctrinally correct"

The 144,000 are not necessarily literal virgins, though some may be. The same applies to the Discourse. When Jesus says,

"But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!"

He is really saying, "Woe to those who believe in false doctrines and who are teaching false doctrines."

If you understand this one thing, you then see the 144,000 not being a bunch of 15 year old Jewish kids but rather Strong Christians who have not been corrupted by Man's doctrines, who walk right with the Lord, who are sealed with His Word, who are Faithful and Chosen and are His ELECT. The fact that they represent all 12 tribes, 10 of which were scattered all over the globe over 2,500 years ago you can see that these ELECT could be just about anyone of us. But more importantly, you see that they ABOVE all Christians were not unworthy to be Raptured as they are "firstfruits redeemed from man." This phrase and their existence on earth during the Tribulation absolutely destroys any idea of their being an earlier Rapture.

Once you see who the 144K represent and what God's plan is for them, a handpicked army selected from the foundation of the earth to battle evil during the Tribulation you then see the parallel between the 144K and Gideon's army. This should send chills down your arms because the obvious question becomes, "What about the rest of us?" The answer - they are sent home.

It doesn't matter how much you love the Father and live a good Christian life, if you are pregnant with false doctrine or worse nursing it (feeding it to others) God can't use you during the Tribulation. The Tribulation again, is the "Temptation or test of Satan."

It has been nearly 2,000 years since anyone has seen Jesus. Satan comes as Antichrist which means simply, "In place of Christ - claiming to be Christ." For those that expect Christ to come first for a Rapture, Antichrist will give you one. This is how he will deceive the vast majority of Christians. This "Hour of Temptation" will come upon the whole earth and only those "sealed on their foreheads with the knowledge and truth" will avoid this test. The only way a Christian will have any chance of passing this test is to know the correct order of events and knowing "which Christ" comes first and NOT GOING FORTH for Satan's Rapture.

Jesus said it plainly.

21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.

23 Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it.

24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

25 See, I have told you beforehand.

26 Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it.

Who are the ELECT? They are the 144K, the ones sealed with the Truth and those who do NOT worship the Beast. These warnings have purpose. Something bad will happen to those who don't obey. So many warnings from Jesus and Paul about not being deceived and these warnings, especially from Paul, deal with the timing of the Lord's return. Why is the timing so important? I just explained it. Which doctrine teaches a return of the Lord that cannot be confirmed in scripture? Pre-Trib.

 

[Enow]

May everyone go before that throne of grace for wisdom & discernment un understanding His words because only He can help us to see that His teachings are to believers in how to be found as His disciples by abiding in His words and therefore those that are the elect are the ones chosen for the Marriage Supper as found abiding in Him & His words as His disciples.

John 15:[SUP]6[/SUP]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. [SUP]7 [/SUP]If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.......[SUP]14[/SUP]Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. 15Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. [SUP]17 [/SUP]These things I command you, that ye love one another.

Matthew 7:[SUP]21 [/SUP]Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? [SUP]23 [/SUP]And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: [SUP]25 [/SUP]And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. [SUP]26 [/SUP]And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: [SUP]27 [/SUP]And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

If anyone says those people that profess Him are not saved believers, you are forgeeting that by having iniquity, they are denying Him.

Titus 1:[SUP]13 [/SUP]This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; [SUP]14 [/SUP]Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. [SUP]16 [/SUP]They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

That is why believers having His seal are to depart from iniquity to void becoming a vessel unto dishonour in His House as in a castaway which means they will be left behind at the pre trib rapture event when God judges His House first.

2 Timothy 2:[SUP]19 [/SUP]Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

1 Corinthians 9:[SUP]24 [/SUP]Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. [SUP]25 [/SUP]And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. [SUP]26 [/SUP]I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: [SUP]27 [/SUP]But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, [SUP]2 [/SUP]Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

So go before that throne of grace for mercy & help in being ready & kept ready to go because the Bridegroom is coming soon.

2 Timothy 4:[SUP]18 [/SUP]And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

 

[PlainWord]

therefore those that are the elect are the ones chosen for the Marriage Supper as found abiding in Him & His words as His disciples.

Exactly!!! I thought you were pre-Trib Enow? Good to see you are Post Trib, you've come around.

Again, if there is a Pre-Trib Rapture, how can there be Elect on earth during the Tribulation? But we see from Mat 24 that the Elect are indeed on earth during the Tribulation.

22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.

23 Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it.

24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

If the Rapture took place before this, there would be no ELECT left on earth.