Pre Trib Rapture Moment 11: What will trigger the rapture?
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L
i'm pretty sure the tribulation has lasted the past 2k years.
The weeks of Daniel speak of abomination. the Temple mount is covered with an abomination that has cause the Temple to not be rebuilt (desolation). It will remain there until the end.
I believe the weeks of Daniel have been fulfilled, so the Tribulation's timetable is separate, and not limited to 7 years.
In this interpretation, the individual tribulations may very well have all been poured out already, or can all be poured out within a few minutes, as Jesus descends.
This means that Jesus' return is imminent. Which means the Resurrection and rapture are also imminent. And the destruction of all evil men is imminent.
The weeks of Daniel speak of abomination. the Temple mount is covered with an abomination that has cause the Temple to not be rebuilt (desolation). It will remain there until the end.
I believe the weeks of Daniel have been fulfilled, so the Tribulation's timetable is separate, and not limited to 7 years.
In this interpretation, the individual tribulations may very well have all been poured out already, or can all be poured out within a few minutes, as Jesus descends.
This means that Jesus' return is imminent. Which means the Resurrection and rapture are also imminent. And the destruction of all evil men is imminent.
Ive read the bible, this a false doctrine that is easily refuted, if you arent too brained washed, which happens very easily because people put too much of their emotions into what they want the bible to say to fit their outlook on life, instead of just reading Gods word and believing it whether they like it or not.
Its the same with other false doctrines, like saying, sodomy isn't wrong, Jesus never talked about homosexuality; just to fit it in their lifestyle. That is totally incorrect.
The truth is, we really don't want to go through these rough times, the persecution of the saints (satans wrath), which will be intense, but shortened for OUR sake (If they weren't shortened by God, satan wouldn't stop until we were all dead), but we will go through tribulation, all the way up to Gods wrath, when our new bodies are raised from the grave to meet our souls in the clouds, as we come back with Jesus. Yes, our new bodies come from the ground (just like our flesh did, just like Jesus did), and they join our souls. This is all in the bible, read it, the whole book.
The pretrib rapture smells like swiss cheese, its full of holes. Its mental acrobatics. The bible is straight forward with its doctrine, babes in christ believe this doctrine. Ive talked to MANY new christians that strictly believe this doctrine, which was invented in 1830. They do not want to hear the truth.
I can easily tell they are new because they fire back with rookie statements like, 'God would never appoint us to wrath', the rapture is in Rev 4, the rest of rev is Gods wrath, or, the seconding coming and rapture are 2 different events, its funny because, they think the tribulation and wrath are the same events, but they are separate, yet they dont see that the saints coming with jesus and the glorified bodies being raised from the grave are the same event, they split those two up; or ask newbie questions like, 'who will populate the millennium?'
Dead give aways that the person was only showed tidbits of scripture and built a false doctrine upon them, and did not read it in full, in context on their own, learning the truth in its entirety. Arguing is pointless. I joined here to see what the word on was the forums, and its the same in the false churches and seminaries. I will rebuke false doctrine til the end:
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
Im saying the same to you as I would say to any other believer, Youre wrong about the pretrib lie, where to find the information has already been posted, if you read it and do not believe it, oh well. People didnt believe Jesus when he preached certain things. People stopped following Jesus because they didnt like what he said. People killed him for what he said. Talk about freedom of speech.
Proverbs 13:1 A wise son heareth his father's instruction: but a scorner heareth not rebuke.
Proverbs 24:25 But to them that rebuke him shall be delight, and a good blessing shall come upon them. (if you are already wise)
Proverbs 27:5 Open rebuke is better than secret love.
Its the same with other false doctrines, like saying, sodomy isn't wrong, Jesus never talked about homosexuality; just to fit it in their lifestyle. That is totally incorrect.
The truth is, we really don't want to go through these rough times, the persecution of the saints (satans wrath), which will be intense, but shortened for OUR sake (If they weren't shortened by God, satan wouldn't stop until we were all dead), but we will go through tribulation, all the way up to Gods wrath, when our new bodies are raised from the grave to meet our souls in the clouds, as we come back with Jesus. Yes, our new bodies come from the ground (just like our flesh did, just like Jesus did), and they join our souls. This is all in the bible, read it, the whole book.
The pretrib rapture smells like swiss cheese, its full of holes. Its mental acrobatics. The bible is straight forward with its doctrine, babes in christ believe this doctrine. Ive talked to MANY new christians that strictly believe this doctrine, which was invented in 1830. They do not want to hear the truth.
I can easily tell they are new because they fire back with rookie statements like, 'God would never appoint us to wrath', the rapture is in Rev 4, the rest of rev is Gods wrath, or, the seconding coming and rapture are 2 different events, its funny because, they think the tribulation and wrath are the same events, but they are separate, yet they dont see that the saints coming with jesus and the glorified bodies being raised from the grave are the same event, they split those two up; or ask newbie questions like, 'who will populate the millennium?'
Dead give aways that the person was only showed tidbits of scripture and built a false doctrine upon them, and did not read it in full, in context on their own, learning the truth in its entirety. Arguing is pointless. I joined here to see what the word on was the forums, and its the same in the false churches and seminaries. I will rebuke false doctrine til the end:
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
Im saying the same to you as I would say to any other believer, Youre wrong about the pretrib lie, where to find the information has already been posted, if you read it and do not believe it, oh well. People didnt believe Jesus when he preached certain things. People stopped following Jesus because they didnt like what he said. People killed him for what he said. Talk about freedom of speech.
Proverbs 13:1 A wise son heareth his father's instruction: but a scorner heareth not rebuke.
Proverbs 24:25 But to them that rebuke him shall be delight, and a good blessing shall come upon them. (if you are already wise)
Proverbs 27:5 Open rebuke is better than secret love.
Scholars with Doctorate Degrees from institutions all over the world have wrestled with the questions of the nature of the Tribulation, who will populate the millenium, the similarities and differences of the Rapture and 2nd Coming of Christ to earth. These aren't newbie questions, they're actually questions that we all probably shouldn't take so flippantly. The love of studying what God says about the end times should reflect a love of His Word and of His beautiful character. In studying the book of Revelation we get an amazing picture of a God who punishes wickedness and rewards righteousness and Himself is "Worthy to break the book of seven seals." All the seals of from God, He is sovereign over all. The purpose of the breaking of the seven seals effectively issues to the Lamb power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing. Amen.
This coming tribulation is to be the most evil - as there will be none like it or after it (unprecedented). Previous tribulations have never had sophisticated world governments and the countries merged together as though one. Also the tribulation is taken from the eyes of Israel not America or the USA. For example, 'Hiding in the mountains' and 'you will not pass through each part of Israel before He returns, relates to Israel (Matthew 24: v. 15-30). The bible in Revelation also says some of you will be put into prison and 'tested by the devil'. Does tested mean tortured? Christians will die too likely by a literal sword or portable guillotine. It is likely if the previous is about Israel that this one will be too. We are certain of two things, we will be forced to take the mark, or will die when we refuse to take it. The bible says, it will be a matter of 'life' and 'death', so no one can accidentally take it. Only with the mark can people buy or sell. So the mark (charagma - ie cut into), relates to something to do with the economy. It is likely a computer chip which is online, with GPS surveillance technologies. There is no guarantee that said Western countries' Christians will be able to escape. How would we survive...there will be helicopters looking for heat signals which will find their human targets (ie us). GPS signals are likely to be blocked by buildings and trees but heat signals coming from humans will be obvious. There may be ways to evade capture - but it will be very difficult. This tribulation may be many years away. Someone said to me however, they knew of someone who had a vision that the anti-Christ was born 17 years ago. If correct he is round about 17 now, but if he is to counterfeit Jesus he won't come to power until he is around 30, so it possible, if the vision is correct, for tribulation to occur in about 15 years from now.
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John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
There really isn't a rapture as most consider. At the return of Christ following the great tribulation the remnant of those of the little flock will be taken up to be with Jesus. The remaining "sheep that are not of this fold" (Jn 10:16) will still be here on earth under divine protection, just like in the flood
Chosen My Friend,
You need to have a "Road to Damascus" experience. The entire Discourse was directed at BELIEVERS, not the unbelieving Jews. Context, context, context!!! Christ was speaking to HIS disciples, not the unbeliever. They asked Jesus about the end (as it applied to them) not as it applied to their unbelieving countrymen. Jesus answered to them (BELIEVERS) not to the unbeliever. This is so clear and obvious. Look at the verses that are clearly written to the believer.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
Are the unbelieving going to be delivered up and killed for the Lord's sake? Will they be enduring til the end? Will they even recognize the Abomination if they are not saved? Are they the Elect? Who did Christ tell before hand? In short, who was Christ's audience? Who does Christ love and warn?
When you start out believing the lie, you have no choice but the twist the rest of scripture to fit your lie. That is what you are doing brother Chosen. I have told you repeatedly in hundreds of posts and you still cannot see. You and those who think like you are exactly the group Peter was discussing in 2 Peter 3:
14 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless;
15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation--as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,
16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;
Peter was talking about those who believe in the lies of the world. The Rapture is the great deception of Satan and you have fallen for it hook, line and sinker. I don't think you wanted to be deceived, but you allowed yourself to be deceived because you read the Plain Word and you alter it to fit the lie.
You need to have a "Road to Damascus" experience. The entire Discourse was directed at BELIEVERS, not the unbelieving Jews. Context, context, context!!! Christ was speaking to HIS disciples, not the unbeliever. They asked Jesus about the end (as it applied to them) not as it applied to their unbelieving countrymen. Jesus answered to them (BELIEVERS) not to the unbeliever. This is so clear and obvious. Look at the verses that are clearly written to the believer.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
Are the unbelieving going to be delivered up and killed for the Lord's sake? Will they be enduring til the end? Will they even recognize the Abomination if they are not saved? Are they the Elect? Who did Christ tell before hand? In short, who was Christ's audience? Who does Christ love and warn?
When you start out believing the lie, you have no choice but the twist the rest of scripture to fit your lie. That is what you are doing brother Chosen. I have told you repeatedly in hundreds of posts and you still cannot see. You and those who think like you are exactly the group Peter was discussing in 2 Peter 3:
14 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless;
15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation--as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,
16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;
Peter was talking about those who believe in the lies of the world. The Rapture is the great deception of Satan and you have fallen for it hook, line and sinker. I don't think you wanted to be deceived, but you allowed yourself to be deceived because you read the Plain Word and you alter it to fit the lie.
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The problem with these scholars is they start out believing that there is a pre-Trib rapture. This belief system makes so much of the rest of the Bible, especially future prophesy impossible to reconcile. The reason being there aren't two future returns of Christ, there isn't a pre-trib Rapture. Once this is understood, all these questions are easily answered and all these so-called questions fall into place.
There is ONE future return of Christ and it is AFTER the Tribulation. This divine teaching resolves ALL conflicts. The Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine creates countless problems if the Word is read plainly, so the Word is twisted to comply with the Rapture doctrine which distorts so much of the Word. Stick to the truth, it pleases the Lord.
There is ONE future return of Christ and it is AFTER the Tribulation. This divine teaching resolves ALL conflicts. The Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine creates countless problems if the Word is read plainly, so the Word is twisted to comply with the Rapture doctrine which distorts so much of the Word. Stick to the truth, it pleases the Lord.
I'd say the Olivet discourses are directed at the disciples, "believing Jews." It has meaning for Christians of all ages, meaning for Jews looking for their coming King, meaning ultimately for tribulation saints.
Not every scholar starts out with a pre-trib assumption. There have been amills who become pre-mills, pre-trib who become post-mill, pre-trib who become pre-wrath, post-trib who become pre-trib, as well as a whole host who come from nothing and become amill, pre-mill, pre-trib, post-trib, etc. In each one of the 1st examples I am thinking of a specific book that has been written which is the personal experience of the author. I can reference all of this but you get the point.
The fact is, eschatology was not studied to the extent it is today throughout 2000 years of church history. It's only really been studied in the last 200 years, with modern scholarly work in the last 100 years. This to me speaks of the fact that God says that those near the end will understand.
Is there a difference between being caught up to meet the Lord in the clouds and Jesus coming in the clouds, descending to the earth and His feet breaking the Mt. of Olives?
Is there a difference between the gathering call of the trumpet in 1 Thess. 4 and the judgment announcements of the trumpets in Rev.?
Is there a difference between the dead in Christ being resurrected along with those who remain at the Rapture and the picture we have of the 2nd coming in Matt. 24 where it's the wicked who are taken away into judgment "and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40“Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. 41“Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left. This is a taking away to judgment, we want to be left behind here to enter the millenial kingdom.
Some focus on the similarities, some on the differences. Clearly someone is wrong, but both sides should agree that they are trying to do justice to the beautiful words of Scripture.
Not every scholar starts out with a pre-trib assumption. There have been amills who become pre-mills, pre-trib who become post-mill, pre-trib who become pre-wrath, post-trib who become pre-trib, as well as a whole host who come from nothing and become amill, pre-mill, pre-trib, post-trib, etc. In each one of the 1st examples I am thinking of a specific book that has been written which is the personal experience of the author. I can reference all of this but you get the point.
The fact is, eschatology was not studied to the extent it is today throughout 2000 years of church history. It's only really been studied in the last 200 years, with modern scholarly work in the last 100 years. This to me speaks of the fact that God says that those near the end will understand.
Is there a difference between being caught up to meet the Lord in the clouds and Jesus coming in the clouds, descending to the earth and His feet breaking the Mt. of Olives?
Is there a difference between the gathering call of the trumpet in 1 Thess. 4 and the judgment announcements of the trumpets in Rev.?
Is there a difference between the dead in Christ being resurrected along with those who remain at the Rapture and the picture we have of the 2nd coming in Matt. 24 where it's the wicked who are taken away into judgment "and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40“Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. 41“Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left. This is a taking away to judgment, we want to be left behind here to enter the millenial kingdom.
Some focus on the similarities, some on the differences. Clearly someone is wrong, but both sides should agree that they are trying to do justice to the beautiful words of Scripture.
No. Brother. Don't try to keep that promise. We are to love one another, but not above the Bridegroom. When He says come.. come.. don't look back... as I will need His help to do even that too.
Ask Jesus to set you free because the pre tribulational rapture is when God will be judging His House first because of the falling away from the faith which many saints will be left behind for not being ready & found abiding in Him. Those wayward saints are the ones coming out of the great tribulation... and you do not know where everybody is at in their relationship with the Lord at this forum. That means somebody will be left behind and you need to be set free from that promise.
Ask Jesus to set you free because the pre tribulational rapture is when God will be judging His House first because of the falling away from the faith which many saints will be left behind for not being ready & found abiding in Him. Those wayward saints are the ones coming out of the great tribulation... and you do not know where everybody is at in their relationship with the Lord at this forum. That means somebody will be left behind and you need to be set free from that promise.
Reads like prophesying of the pre trib rapture to me.
Psalm 57:1Be merciful unto me, O God, be merciful unto me: for my soul trusteth in thee: yea, in the shadow of thy wings will I make my refuge, until these calamities be overpast. [SUP]2 [/SUP]I will cry unto God most high; unto God that performeth all things for me.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]He shall send from heaven, and save me from the reproach of him that would swallow me up. Selah. God shall send forth his mercy and his truth.
Psalm 18:1I will love thee, O Lord, my strength.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]The Lord is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]I will call upon the Lord, who is worthy to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]The sorrows of death compassed me, and the floods of ungodly men made me afraid.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]The sorrows of hell compassed me about: the snares of death prevented me.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]In my distress I called upon the Lord, and cried unto my God: he heard my voice out of his temple, and my cry came before him, even into his ears.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations also of the hills moved and were shaken, because he was wroth.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness was under his feet.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: yea, he did fly upon the wings of the wind.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]At the brightness that was before him his thick clouds passed, hail stones and coals of fire.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]The Lord also thundered in the heavens, and the Highest gave his voice; hail stones and coals of fire.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Yea, he sent out his arrows, and scattered them; and he shot out lightnings, and discomfited them.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Then the channels of waters were seen, and the foundations of the world were discovered at thy rebuke, O Lord, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]He sent from above, he took me, he drew me out of many waters.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]He delivered me from my strong enemy, and from them which hated me: for they were too strong for me.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]They prevented me in the day of my calamity: but the Lord was my stay.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]He brought me forth also into a large place; he delivered me, because he delighted in me.
Psalm 57:1Be merciful unto me, O God, be merciful unto me: for my soul trusteth in thee: yea, in the shadow of thy wings will I make my refuge, until these calamities be overpast. [SUP]2 [/SUP]I will cry unto God most high; unto God that performeth all things for me.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]He shall send from heaven, and save me from the reproach of him that would swallow me up. Selah. God shall send forth his mercy and his truth.
Psalm 18:1I will love thee, O Lord, my strength.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]The Lord is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]I will call upon the Lord, who is worthy to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]The sorrows of death compassed me, and the floods of ungodly men made me afraid.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]The sorrows of hell compassed me about: the snares of death prevented me.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]In my distress I called upon the Lord, and cried unto my God: he heard my voice out of his temple, and my cry came before him, even into his ears.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations also of the hills moved and were shaken, because he was wroth.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness was under his feet.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: yea, he did fly upon the wings of the wind.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]At the brightness that was before him his thick clouds passed, hail stones and coals of fire.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]The Lord also thundered in the heavens, and the Highest gave his voice; hail stones and coals of fire.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Yea, he sent out his arrows, and scattered them; and he shot out lightnings, and discomfited them.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Then the channels of waters were seen, and the foundations of the world were discovered at thy rebuke, O Lord, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]He sent from above, he took me, he drew me out of many waters.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]He delivered me from my strong enemy, and from them which hated me: for they were too strong for me.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]They prevented me in the day of my calamity: but the Lord was my stay.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]He brought me forth also into a large place; he delivered me, because he delighted in me.
L
I guess you can take every verse that talks about God's deliverance, rip them out of context, and say that they are talking about rapturing the Church before the Tribulation.
If the only thing God is delivering you from is the Tribulation, then what about deliverance from the final judgement(the White Throne/ the Lake of Fire)? What about His daily deliverance from temptation and trials?
Don't take the Psalms out of context. It is very unDispensational of you.
If the only thing God is delivering you from is the Tribulation, then what about deliverance from the final judgement(the White Throne/ the Lake of Fire)? What about His daily deliverance from temptation and trials?
Don't take the Psalms out of context. It is very unDispensational of you.