Pre Trib Rapture Moment 11: What will trigger the rapture?

[nathan3]

I see problems with some of the views, One is too early, ( and rapture is not written of ) . and Plainword, your on your way to grasping God's plans , but more scripture is needed to have a clearer picture i think.

You see there Paul in I Thess 4 is talking about Christ return and mentions a trump. Christ returns in the last; so you have the time there. Antichrist shows up at the trump before the last, that's the 6th. Paul mentions these things and clarifies his first letter with the second letter. The letter is clear, concerning Christ return, there is a falling away first, with Satan ; the son of perdition appears claiming to be God. Then, after that, as Christ stated in Mark 13, He ( Christ ) returns to shows Satan for who he is; that starts the the millennium aka Lords Day . But, there is no rapture inbetween that. All we have in First thess 4 is Christ return. And that change in body at Christ return at the last trump; as Paul taught in his other letter 1 Cor 15 .

If you have Paul taking about Christ return in one letter and a change in bodies, and another letter with different language about Christ return, there is something not carrying over well from Greek. And that so happens to be the case in I Thess 4.

Because 1Cor 15 is the same, as 1 Thess 4. The greek word for air, and the caught up in a gathering, to meet Christ and those he brings, is describing with that the change of body at Christ return Paul taught about in 1 Cor 15. The Greek word for air is not atmosphere, but spiritual body. Or breath of life.

Christ already stated in Mark 13, there was going to be a tribulation, and warnings about it, and what it will be. But no taking of anyone. He says in Mark 13 later in the chapter, that He returns after Satan. It is even plain in English there.

The sad thing is about this rapture teaching, is that it teaches people to take verses out of the subject so that it appears to read at first glance, like a flying off into the air or something similar.

For example; of how people miss use a verse, is the one in Matthew, where you have two in the field, one is taken the other left, etc. The problem here with not being able to follow or recognize a the subject is it can mislead people who are not studied in the word of God.

The those taken from the field ,are taken by the subject there, sadly the subject is Antichrist. The one left, is left in the field doing God's work. That statement is followed up with, not being harvested out of season. And even as the bridegroom expects a virgin bride, those with child and give suck would mean what ? They did not wait for the True bridegroom, but were deceived by the fake Christ; as Christ says just after that..

Rapture, sets people up to accept without question, the first person arriving claiming to be Christ. That is what so-called, people of God, are doing to Christians. It is a set up for shame and disgrace .

And its so popular now, people have not bothered to study God's word, they are listening to people who have not properly studied God's word for understanding, like blind going to the blind. We have to study ourselves, and pray asking for Help from the Heavenly Father for understanding into these things ( or for a learned teacher even, they are out there if not far and few in-between . Ask God. ) . If not, you will be deceived. Satan will use Christians ignorance of the Bible against them. Because Satan actually knows scripture.

 

[Enow]

We can find scriptures that discuss all three and that the Father, Son and HS are one. The problem with the Pre-trib Rapture doctrine is we can't find a single passage anywhere that:

1) Discusses the Lord returning BEFORE the Tribulation.
2) Discusses the Lord taking anyone alive off to heaven.
3) Discusses a Raptured group in heaven, Not just during the Tribulation, but EVER.
4) Discusses the Lord returning to earth with a group that was Raptured AFTER the Tribulation.
5) Discusses the Post Rapture Saints as those who were left behind or were future converts
6) Discusses two distinct future returns of the Lord
7) Discusses two separate plans for the Church and Israel

All of the above are fabricated, the result of an 19th century vision of a delusional woman named Margaret MacDonald that two ministers heard and ran with.

The distinction can be made when you keep tribulation or "the perilous times" & great tribulation as separate.

There is tribulation... and then there is the great tribulation.

Revelation is not given in chronicle order, neither are the answers given in Matthew 24th chapter. You need His wisdom to discern that.

Matthew 24:1-13 is the tribulation which was mentioned again below leading up to the rapture. Between that is the mentioning of the great tribulation.

What is happening below is happening now with all of these movements of the "Spirit", signalling the "falling away" from the faith when the test of our faith is that He is in us: not outside of us in the worship place where the spirits of the antichrists dwells.

Matthew 24:[SUP]23 [/SUP]Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. [SUP]25 [/SUP]Behold, I have told you before. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. [SUP]27 [/SUP]For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. [SUP]28 [/SUP]For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. [SUP]29[/SUP]Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [SUP]30 [/SUP]And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [SUP]31 [/SUP]And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: [SUP]33 [/SUP]So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

If you discern with His help of verse 14 & 15

Matthew 24:[SUP]14 [/SUP]And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. [SUP]15 [/SUP]When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Then you can understand the three angels setting everything up for the hour of trial that shall try all on the earth after the pre trib rapture as no one will have any excuse in not knowing the consequences of taking the mark of the beast, let alone not knowing the gospel which will be preached in all the world as a witness ( Matthew 24:14) & then from verse 15 comes that man of perdition.

Revelation 14:[SUP]6 [/SUP]And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, [SUP]7 [/SUP]Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. [SUP]8 [/SUP]And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, [SUP]10 [/SUP]The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: [SUP]11 [/SUP]And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

That means some saints will be left behind for not being ready nor found abiding in Him from which we see in Revelation 14th chapter past that reference of being made to rest from their labours and their works will follow them... into the dusts for labouring in unbelief which is why those saints were made to rest.

May God cause the increase because Jesus gave enough warning to His disciples about being ready and watching. Hardly any saint can be distracted by surfeiting & drunkenness for the cares of this life during the great tribulation when they can no longer buy & sell.

Luke 21:[SUP]34 [/SUP]And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. [SUP]35 [/SUP]For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. [SUP]36 [/SUP]Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

 

[letti]

Concerning da rapture lol,hmm,these two verses?Rev,chapter 20 verse 4 And,I saw thrones,and they sat upon them,and judgement was given unto them and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus,and for the word of God,and which had not worshipped the beast,neither his image,neither received his mark upon their foreheads,or in their hands,and the lived and reigned with Christ a thousand yrs.Raptured?Huh? they are delivered to the altar after,they die for their faith in Christ,they will be persecuted and die for their faith.All who remain alive at the end will be caught up with Christ.ALL THAT REMAIN,many will have died already though,NO FLESH WOULD HAVE SURVIVED, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened,so a few remain alive.That day will come,= After the the man of lawlessness is revealed, and scripture is clear not until.

 

[nathan3]

they are delivered to the altar after,they die for their faith in Christ,they will be persecuted and die for their faith.All who remain alive at the end will be caught up with Christ.ALL THAT REMAIN,many will have died already though,NO FLESH WOULD HAVE SURVIVED, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened,so a few remain alive.That day will come,= After the the man of lawlessness is revealed, and scripture is clear not until.

I agree no rapture. And that is a good scripture for understanding that there is not one. But.
There is thee, antichrist. But there have been many that persecuted Christians, and they did resort to killing. But the antichrist of the future, Satan. He will not be going around killing people. That is a common misconception about that tribulation. What Paul said in II Thess 2, is that there will be a falling away first. Falling away in Greek its taken, is apostasy. That is the world falling away from their professed faith in a instant. In a spiritual sense there is killing.But Not physical. You cant convince people your Christ if you go around killing people. And what purpose would that serve Satan ? Not much at all.

Revelation 9 , Satan is commanded he can kill no one.... The only two Satan kills at the very end of his reign is the two witnesses. Likely Moses and Elijah. But all the rest ( not the elect ) will be willingly worshiping him as Savior of the world as Rev 13 teaches. In a spiritual sense no flesh would make it. It means that people are going to be deceived.

 

[letti]

The Lord says Satan will be loose from his prison a thousand yrs?To deceive the nations for Armageddon?Psalms 90 verse 4 A thousand yrs in your sight, are like a day that has just gone by,or like a watch in the night.2 peter 3-But do not forget this one thing, with the lord a day is like a thousand yrs,and a thousand yrs like a dayNow remember those days will be shortened for the sake of the elect,just something interesting to me.

 

[Isdaniel]

I agree no rapture. And that is a good scripture for understanding that there is not one. But.
There is thee, antichrist. But there have been many that persecuted Christians, and they did resort to killing. But the antichrist of the future, Satan. He will not be going around killing people. That is a common misconception about that tribulation. What Paul said in II Thess 2, is that there will be a falling away first. Falling away in Greek its taken, is apostasy. That is the world falling away from their professed faith in a instant. In a spiritual sense there is killing.But Not physical. You cant convince people your Christ if you go around killing people. And what purpose would that serve Satan ? Not much at all.

Revelation 9 , Satan is commanded he can kill no one.... The only two Satan kills at the very end of his reign is the two witnesses. Likely Moses and Elijah. But all the rest ( not the elect ) will be willingly worshiping him as Savior of the world as Rev 13 teaches.

In revelation 11 Could you explain the 1260 days and 3 1/2 days ? thanks

 

[letti]

I agree no rapture. And that is a good scripture for understanding that there is not one. But.
There is thee, antichrist. But there have been many that persecuted Christians, and they did resort to killing. But the antichrist of the future, Satan. He will not be going around killing people. That is a common misconception about that tribulation. What Paul said in II Thess 2, is that there will be a falling away first. Falling away in Greek its taken, is apostasy. That is the world falling away from their professed faith in a instant. In a spiritual sense there is killing.But Not physical. You cant convince people your Christ if you go around killing people. And what purpose would that serve Satan ? Not much at all.

Revelation 9 , Satan is commanded he can kill no one.... The only two Satan kills at the very end of his reign is the two witnesses. Likely Moses and Elijah. But all the rest ( not the elect ) will be willingly worshiping him as Savior of the world as Rev 13 teaches. In a spiritual sense no flesh would make it. It means that people are going to be deceived.

Why I wonder would Christ tell his sheep this,Matthew chapter 16 verse 24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples,I'f any man will come after me let him deny himself,and take up his cross,and follow me.For whosoever will save his life shall lose it.,and whoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.He talks about persecution and how will the beast enforce his mark upon people?Scripture states differently the way i read it.Interesting,I guess the bible, I am reading is different.Lot's of saints were killed all through out history why?So now will be different?

 

[letti]

Revelation Chapter 17,And the dragon(satan)was wroth with the woman,and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,which keep the commandments of God,and the testimony of Jesus Christ.What does this mean?Who, are the Beast and false prophet then?

 

[nathan3]

Why I wonder would Christ tell his sheep this,Matthew chapter 16 verse 24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples,I'f any man will come after me let him deny himself,and take up his cross,and follow me.For whosoever will save his life shall lose it.,and whoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.He talks about persecution and how will the beast enforce his mark upon people?Scripture states differently the way i read it.Interesting,I guess the bible, I am reading is different.Lot's of saints were killed all through out history why?So now will be different?

Why this time is different ??? because its Satan claiming to be Christ with supernatural miracles . Thats why. Christ says they willingly, they request it, they want him. That is what apostasy means, Paul warned about. II Thess 2. Read about what he will be doing in rev 13. he is described there as the second beast.

 

[nathan3]

In revelation 11 Could you explain the 1260 days and 3 1/2 days ? thanks

Yes. I'm working on putting something together now. Its a long chapter. I'm using trusted studies and what I can remember .

 

[Enow]

Concerning da rapture lol,hmm,these two verses?Rev,chapter 20 verse 4 And,I saw thrones,and they sat upon them,and judgement was given unto them and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus,and for the word of God,and which had not worshipped the beast,neither his image,neither received his mark upon their foreheads,or in their hands,and the lived and reigned with Christ a thousand yrs.Raptured?Huh? they are delivered to the altar after,they die for their faith in Christ,they will be persecuted and die for their faith.All who remain alive at the end will be caught up with Christ.ALL THAT REMAIN,many will have died already though,NO FLESH WOULD HAVE SURVIVED, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened,so a few remain alive.That day will come,= After the the man of lawlessness is revealed, and scripture is clear not until.

They are delivered to the altar after they die to wait... and then they are resurrected after the great tribulation.

They being signified as those left behind saints coming out of the hour of trial that tried every one on the earth which is the great tribulation as you will note part of that description of those saints as not having received the mark of the beast nor worshipped his image.

Those left behind saints as castaways will be the vessels of wood & earth as vessels unto dishonour in His House for not departing from iniquity ( see 2 Timothy 2:19-21 ) before the Bridegroom had come. So like Esau that gave up his birthright for a meal & the prodigal son having given up his "first" inheritance for wild living, they will be given a robe and a ring for they are still sons as they will reign with Christ as kings & priests for a thousand years.

 

[nathan3]

Revelation Chapter 17,And the dragon(satan)was wroth with the woman,and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,which keep the commandments of God,and the testimony of Jesus Christ.What does this mean?Who, are the Beast and false prophet then?

They are all one in the same. the dragon , serpent antichrist, false prophet : Satan. Try to read Revelation 12: 9.

 

[Isdaniel]

Yes. I'm working on putting something together now. Its a long chapter.

please make it short for me all i want to know is the days literal 24 hour periods yes or no thanks

For example 1260 "×" 24 hrs 3 1/2 "×" 24 hrs

 

[Isdaniel]

They are all one in the same. the dragon , serpent antichrist, false prophet : Satan. Try to read Revelation 12: 9.

[h=3]Revelation 13[/h]King James Version (KJV)


13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority

 

[Isdaniel]

They are all one in the same. the dragon , serpent antichrist, false prophet : Satan. Try to read Revelation 12: 9.

Revelation 19 Where is the dragon ?
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone

 

[nathan3]

Revelation 19 Where is the dragon ?
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone

that's him. Satan is going right in there.

Rev 20 :

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Christ called him false Christ. Because that is what he will be doing. Mark 13:21-23

 

[Isdaniel]

Oh wait this is where the dragon is satan goes into the lake of fire after the 1000yr not before as of the beast and the false prophet

Revelation 20

King James Version (KJV)

20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

 

[nathan3]

Oh wait this is where the dragon is

[h=3]Revelation 20[/h]King James Version (KJV)



20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

That is where he will be held, for the Lords Day the thousand years. After that, then he will be looses a short season, to test once more, then the lake of fire. The Lords Day is just after the tribulation of Antichrist, then Christ will return to start that Lords Day.

 

[Isdaniel]

That is where he will be held, for the Lords Day the thousand years. After that, then he will be looses a short season, to test once more, then the lake of fire. The Lords Day is just after the tribulation of Antichrist, then Christ will return to start that Lords Day.

Who will the devil test?

 

[zone]

And its so popular now, people have not bothered to study God's word, they are listening to people who have not properly studied God's word for understanding, like blind going to the blind.

not exactly denomination-bashing.

We have to study ourselves, and pray asking for Help from the Heavenly Father for understanding into these things ( or for a learned teacher even, they are out there if not far and few in-between .

like Arnold Murray.
who teaches Satan comes pretending to be Christ.