Predestination or free will?
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As pertains to the truth of God in Christ, that is correct.
Thank you for your detailed explanation that makes more clear your position. I appreciate you taking the time.
I would say that those who are sealed by the Holy Spirit do not face death. We are saved eternally and are alive forever in Christ. "....and no one will take them from my hand."
Blessed Be.
Thank you for your detailed explanation that makes more clear your position. I appreciate you taking the time.
I would say that those who are sealed by the Holy Spirit do not face death. We are saved eternally and are alive forever in Christ. "....and no one will take them from my hand."
Blessed Be.
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I feel that destiny and free will are able to exist simultaneously because God knows how people will think and act. When God created man he had to allow every method of living to be sure that there would be no way Satan could say that God hadn’t allowed every method to be tried and thereby say that Satan's evil methods could have worked after all. God did this also to show all creation that only God’s way would work. Creating all of these thought possibilities; He knew what conclusions each one would come to, in their thought processes. Thereby He didn’t create anything bad, but only the brains that would come up with the evil thoughts.
Knowing how each person thinks doesn’t mean that he thinks evilly, only that he was following the thought processes of those evil minds. This process vindicates God purity in the past when he was originally thinking of how to create his various beings. The saved beings, all have had, and will have evil processes in their thoughts, but would have and still will have the ability to discern why they are bad and try to stop, unlike those thought processes in the completely evil beings. Knowing how each brain works makes it possible for God to know the action each thought will produce and that is partially responsible for what has allowed Him to know everything that will happen to everyone throughout all time. The physical actions of the earth and its heaven are also major factors in what we will do as well. The one instance Shroom(sp) mentioned earlier I think is only telling us that God didn't think of that evil, the people did.
I realize there are those who don't think God has the ability to do this, but you need to realize that God is everywhere in the universe which means he is gargantuan and thus, so is his brain.
Knowing how each person thinks doesn’t mean that he thinks evilly, only that he was following the thought processes of those evil minds. This process vindicates God purity in the past when he was originally thinking of how to create his various beings. The saved beings, all have had, and will have evil processes in their thoughts, but would have and still will have the ability to discern why they are bad and try to stop, unlike those thought processes in the completely evil beings. Knowing how each brain works makes it possible for God to know the action each thought will produce and that is partially responsible for what has allowed Him to know everything that will happen to everyone throughout all time. The physical actions of the earth and its heaven are also major factors in what we will do as well. The one instance Shroom(sp) mentioned earlier I think is only telling us that God didn't think of that evil, the people did.
I realize there are those who don't think God has the ability to do this, but you need to realize that God is everywhere in the universe which means he is gargantuan and thus, so is his brain.
If predestination is true and God chooses who will be saved, and not saved, without their choice, there are some things to consider.
That means that God's kingdom is not true love, for the people that believe in the God of Israel, and confess Christ, do not truly love God but they have no choice but to obey the truth seeing no other alternative.
God is not evil that He would condemn people that have no choice in their salvation, for it would go against the nature of God.
Those that God chose would mean that their faith, their love, their hope, their confession of Christ, is not real for it did not come from them but from God.
All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, and there is none that does good, no, not one, and if you offend in the least of the law then you offend in all, and what makes you to differ from another, and God is no respecter of persons, so why would God choose some and not others when all are sinners, and in the same boat.
The Bible says many are called but few are chosen, so if God chooses without the person having a choice, then why is God calling people that cannot be chosen, for He would only work in the lives of those He chose, for it would serve no purpose to work in the lives He did not choose.
God is the Savior of all men, who will have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth.
The Lord is not willing that any perish but all come to repentance and be saved.
Jesus lights every person born in this world, so all people have the chance to see the light of Jesus and be saved.
The Spirit and bride say Come, and anybody that wants salvation can have that salvation.
God commands everyone to repent, so why is He commanding all people to repent if it does not matter to the ones He did not choose.
All who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
So God wants all people to be saved, so God did not choose who will be saved, and not saved, without their choice, so they should understand the Bible.
We did not choose God, but He chose us, and many are called, but few are chosen.
When God calls a person He will work in their life to get them to the truth, and when they get to the door of truth they have to open it for we have a choice, but they would of not gotten to the door of truth unless God was working in their life, so He chose us, but He does the calling and choosing on earth according to our response to truth.
The Bible says that the Lord knows them that are His having this seal, that everyone that name the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Which if a person hates sin, and does not want sin, they can abstain from sin by the Spirit.
And only a Spirit led life is sealed, and saved, but if they are led of the Spirit they would not sin.
And there is no excuse for sin because when they sin they enjoy it, for if they did not enjoy it they would not do the sin, so if they enjoy the sin they are doing it on purpose, so there is no excuse.
Also we have a choice between good and evil, so if they sin they could of chose the good, and nobody forced them to sin.
A lot of people are not trying to beat some sins but doing them on purpose thinking they are right with God.
The Bible says if a person holds unto sin the blood of Christ cannot wash that sin away.
And if it is true that we cannot abstain from sin, and we sin daily, then how can the blood of Christ wash away all our sins if we can never cease from sinning, for we would always have sin on our record.
Which the Bible says that some have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof, ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth, for they think that they are right with God even if they hold unto sin and will not let it go.
That is why many are called but few are chosen, for not everybody that confesses Christ wanted to give up some sins, but wanted to hold unto some sins and think they are right with God, and said they could not stop it even though the Bible says by the Spirit they can stop the sin.
The saints are predestined to salvation means that God already had the plan to give mankind salvation before He laid down the foundation of the world, and this salvation is to whoever wants this salvation.
For God is love, and His kingdom love, and He is not evil, and He could not judge the wicked for their sins if He chose them in the beginning to not be saved, for they did not have the choice to obey the truth.
All that predestination is about people wanting to believe things according to the flesh that produces many hypocrites, which causes the world to say those hypocrites, and the Bible says give no offense in anything that the ministry be not blamed.
That means that God's kingdom is not true love, for the people that believe in the God of Israel, and confess Christ, do not truly love God but they have no choice but to obey the truth seeing no other alternative.
God is not evil that He would condemn people that have no choice in their salvation, for it would go against the nature of God.
Those that God chose would mean that their faith, their love, their hope, their confession of Christ, is not real for it did not come from them but from God.
All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, and there is none that does good, no, not one, and if you offend in the least of the law then you offend in all, and what makes you to differ from another, and God is no respecter of persons, so why would God choose some and not others when all are sinners, and in the same boat.
The Bible says many are called but few are chosen, so if God chooses without the person having a choice, then why is God calling people that cannot be chosen, for He would only work in the lives of those He chose, for it would serve no purpose to work in the lives He did not choose.
God is the Savior of all men, who will have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth.
The Lord is not willing that any perish but all come to repentance and be saved.
Jesus lights every person born in this world, so all people have the chance to see the light of Jesus and be saved.
The Spirit and bride say Come, and anybody that wants salvation can have that salvation.
God commands everyone to repent, so why is He commanding all people to repent if it does not matter to the ones He did not choose.
All who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
So God wants all people to be saved, so God did not choose who will be saved, and not saved, without their choice, so they should understand the Bible.
We did not choose God, but He chose us, and many are called, but few are chosen.
When God calls a person He will work in their life to get them to the truth, and when they get to the door of truth they have to open it for we have a choice, but they would of not gotten to the door of truth unless God was working in their life, so He chose us, but He does the calling and choosing on earth according to our response to truth.
The Bible says that the Lord knows them that are His having this seal, that everyone that name the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Which if a person hates sin, and does not want sin, they can abstain from sin by the Spirit.
And only a Spirit led life is sealed, and saved, but if they are led of the Spirit they would not sin.
And there is no excuse for sin because when they sin they enjoy it, for if they did not enjoy it they would not do the sin, so if they enjoy the sin they are doing it on purpose, so there is no excuse.
Also we have a choice between good and evil, so if they sin they could of chose the good, and nobody forced them to sin.
A lot of people are not trying to beat some sins but doing them on purpose thinking they are right with God.
The Bible says if a person holds unto sin the blood of Christ cannot wash that sin away.
And if it is true that we cannot abstain from sin, and we sin daily, then how can the blood of Christ wash away all our sins if we can never cease from sinning, for we would always have sin on our record.
Which the Bible says that some have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof, ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth, for they think that they are right with God even if they hold unto sin and will not let it go.
That is why many are called but few are chosen, for not everybody that confesses Christ wanted to give up some sins, but wanted to hold unto some sins and think they are right with God, and said they could not stop it even though the Bible says by the Spirit they can stop the sin.
The saints are predestined to salvation means that God already had the plan to give mankind salvation before He laid down the foundation of the world, and this salvation is to whoever wants this salvation.
For God is love, and His kingdom love, and He is not evil, and He could not judge the wicked for their sins if He chose them in the beginning to not be saved, for they did not have the choice to obey the truth.
All that predestination is about people wanting to believe things according to the flesh that produces many hypocrites, which causes the world to say those hypocrites, and the Bible says give no offense in anything that the ministry be not blamed.
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I would say that in reading God's message to us that free will is our illusion. Our thought. We think we make our choices because we don't see the spirit that is there in person that tells us we are actually going in the direction he set forth. Even putting a male identity on God is wrong of us. But people have been led to think male is superior in these latest generations that it can't be helped to read it in the writings of the more than 40 people who wrote the bible. All men.
" LORD, I know that people's lives are not their own; it is not for them to direct their steps." Jeremiah 10:23
Proverbs 16:9 "In their hearts humans plan their course, but the LORD establishes their steps. "
"The LORD directs the steps of the godly. He delights in every detail of their lives. " Psalms 37:23
" LORD, I know that people's lives are not their own; it is not for them to direct their steps." Jeremiah 10:23
Proverbs 16:9 "In their hearts humans plan their course, but the LORD establishes their steps. "
"The LORD directs the steps of the godly. He delights in every detail of their lives. " Psalms 37:23
Yes, we have to choose God. Predestination only means that God knows the future and how we choose.
Predestination
Dictionaries - Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology - Predestination
Predestination [N] [E]
The Concept. Divine predestination means that God has a purpose that is determined long before it is brought to pass. It implies that God is infinitely capable of planning and then bringing about what he has planned, and Scripture speaks of him as doing this ( Isa 14:24-27 ; 22:11 ; 37:26 ; 44:7-8 ; 46:8-10 ). Prophecy in its predictive mode is to be understood accordingly. God plans and makes his plans known, as he chooses, to his servants the prophets ( Amos 3:7 ). God's purpose is one of love and grace ( Deut 7:6-8 ; Isa 41:8-9 ), above all because in love he predestined what should come to pass in his plan to save and to restore sinful humanity through Christ ( Eph 1:5 ). Colossians 1:26 speaks of this purpose as "the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but now is disclosed." This implies that all that is in God's good purpose for us, individually or as part of the people of God, is by God's initiative and thus is a work of grace, something that we could never instigate or deserve ( Deut 9:4-6 ; 2 Tim 1:9 ).
God's Predestining Purpose. From the call of Abraham ( Gen 12:3 ) his descendants, in particular the progeny of Jacob/Israel, are predestined to fulfill the purpose that God has for them ( Psalm 105:5-10 ). They are to be seen in the world as his people ( Deut 7:6 ; Psalm 33:11-12 ), holy and obedient to him, living to his praise ( Isa 43:21 ), a priestly nation bringing the knowledge of God to other nations ( Exod 19:5-6 ). The New Testament bears witness also to this purpose and foreknowledge of God concerning Israel ( Rom 11:2) Full definition at Bible Dictionary https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/predestination/
Predestined is about who we are becoming like. We are predestined to be like Christ. Why? Because of our faith. God knows the end from the beginning. When Christ was raised up He drew all men to Him, but some men refuse to come to Him. Israel is an example of this, He longed to gather them, but they refused to come to Him. Even today many people don’t come to Him. They live religious lives trying to earn eternal life, but it is Him. He is eternal life.
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I haven't looked at all of the relevant verses together on one page, so I'm not speaking out of having studied them closely, but...when God talks about those He foreknew, this doesn't necessarily mean anything except that God has seen the beginning and end of every man who will ever be born. He foreknew, before the first one was born, what the end of each one would be.
Would any man really say it is wrong that God has foreknowledge and has had that foreknowledge of every person who would ever be born and die, from the beginning?
So using predestined from Gods' standpoint versus using predestined from the human standpoint, the definition is not the same.
When God talks about names being written in the Lambs book of life from the foundation of the world, this concerns His foreknowledge. It doesn't necessarily kill the idea of freewill which some men believe.
Would any man really say it is wrong that God has foreknowledge and has had that foreknowledge of every person who would ever be born and die, from the beginning?
So using predestined from Gods' standpoint versus using predestined from the human standpoint, the definition is not the same.
When God talks about names being written in the Lambs book of life from the foundation of the world, this concerns His foreknowledge. It doesn't necessarily kill the idea of freewill which some men believe.
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It is both! Imagine it like this...
Picture the whole of human history as being predestined like an intricate tapestry that when finished is exactly as the Lord intended from the very beginning. Think of each fiber of the tapestry as representing the course of a different person's life and is based upon their own choices for good or ill.
You can be sure that the Lord is lovingly working it out so that he can get the most people as possible to turn to Jesus while maintaining his just and holy nature.
Picture the whole of human history as being predestined like an intricate tapestry that when finished is exactly as the Lord intended from the very beginning. Think of each fiber of the tapestry as representing the course of a different person's life and is based upon their own choices for good or ill.
You can be sure that the Lord is lovingly working it out so that he can get the most people as possible to turn to Jesus while maintaining his just and holy nature.
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"So that He can get the most people as possible to turn to Jesus", that sounds like God is trying to achieve salvation for as many people as He can.
The Bible says that God is almighty and all things are possible with Him. So that being the case, He would just will it and it would happen. The Bible is pretty clear that God chose to save a certain number for His own glory and every single one of them would be saved without fail.
Once a person is truly saved, they can never lose their salvation because God chose to save that person and God never fails in anything He does.
The Bible says that God is almighty and all things are possible with Him. So that being the case, He would just will it and it would happen. The Bible is pretty clear that God chose to save a certain number for His own glory and every single one of them would be saved without fail.
Once a person is truly saved, they can never lose their salvation because God chose to save that person and God never fails in anything He does.
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Your right. The Lord could just will it for who can resist his will? Its just that the Lord wants us to want him because we want to. Who wants a bride that blindly obeys with an emotional intensity that was given to her? He made us to love and to be loved. Take for example, the sin that is not forgiven in this life nor in the one to come. Now, I can't imagine any true believer ever actually doing it; but even in the life to come or in New Jerusalem we'll have that one forbidden fruit, if you will; that as long as we refrain from doing it; we will be choosing the Lord. Because we want to. We love him because he first loved us.
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The only predestination I know in the Bible is what you can read in Hebrews 9:27 (after your death is judgment)
well if you read the Torah then you will know that God let man to choose between good or evil (Deuteronomy 11:26-28)
well gays can have their freewill to choose to marry their same sex and have same sex copulation but according to the Christian Scriptures it is abomination in the sight of God and if you will not repent from this then they will go to hell.
if these gays are hardheaded then let them be. God allowed us to choose either good or evil.
Jesus said in Revelation "let those wicked become more wicked and those filthy become more filthy"
just pray for the enlightenment of these gays who do abominable acts that someday they will stop because you can't change them by simply saying
"oh that's bad because it is abomination to God and he will send you to hell"
well if you read the Torah then you will know that God let man to choose between good or evil (Deuteronomy 11:26-28)
well gays can have their freewill to choose to marry their same sex and have same sex copulation but according to the Christian Scriptures it is abomination in the sight of God and if you will not repent from this then they will go to hell.
if these gays are hardheaded then let them be. God allowed us to choose either good or evil.
Jesus said in Revelation "let those wicked become more wicked and those filthy become more filthy"
just pray for the enlightenment of these gays who do abominable acts that someday they will stop because you can't change them by simply saying
"oh that's bad because it is abomination to God and he will send you to hell"